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Submitting signatures authenticated by Beckett9730

Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
I went my local con back in March and got a few books signed, then authenticated by Beckett, who had reps on-site. They have a neat little sticker on the inside cover with a Certification Number that matches what is in Beckett's database.

When submitting my books though, the options for signatures will charge me extra or the other option is "No signatures". Anyone know the best way to submit these and get the yellow or red label?

I'm not all that concerned with which color I get (authenticated vs verified) but want to make sure they don't ignore the fact that it's signed!

Any help is appreciated.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Unless the signing was witnessed and the books submitted by a CBCS Authorized witness then the book can no longer get a yellow label.

For verified signatures, the verification is typically done while the books are in queue for grading. I would send support an email to see if the verification fees could be waived since the signatures are already verified by Beckett, who would be verifying the signatures anyways.

That said, I’d imagine the Becket sticker would count as a defect against the grade.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
I wondered about that when I got it, but was hopeful it wouldn't count against since it's how they certify the signatures. Probably should have done more research before just paying the dough.

Thanks for the reply!
Post 3 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
If it’s an event that CBCS is attending, find the booth and ask for a witness to accompany you to the signing. You’ll be able to submit the book at the show for a yellow label. The witnessing is free and it’s $5 per book, compared to $25 (+$15 for each signature after the first) for red label verification
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Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah, I should have researched more. I saw the Beckett booth and figured it was the same thing (since they own CBCS and all!) but then saw the official CBCS booth on day 2.

I contacted Mr. Roman from his email posted in another thread. Fingers crossed for good news!
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckers
Yeah, I should have researched more. I saw the Beckett booth and figured it was the same thing (since they own CBCS and all!) but then saw the official CBCS booth on day 2.

I contacted Mr. Roman from his email posted in another thread. Fingers crossed for good news!


Mark Roman is no longer with CBCS. I'll have to remove his email from the posts here. Last I heard, you need to contact Darryl Hayden. His email is: dhayden@cbcscomics.com If Darryl can't help, he'll forward it to whoever can.
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Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckers
Yeah, I should have researched more. I saw the Beckett booth and figured it was the same thing (since they own CBCS and all!) but then saw the official CBCS booth on day 2.

I contacted Mr. Roman from his email posted in another thread. Fingers crossed for good news!


Mark Roman is no longer with CBCS. I'll have to remove his email from the posts here. Last I heard, you need to contact Darryl Hayden. His email is: dhayden@cbcscomics.com If Darryl can't help, he'll forward it to whoever can.


@Jesse_O, thanks for the update, I appreciate the assist!
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CBCS Darryl_H private msg quote post Address this user
@ruckers sent you a email on this topic. If you need anything else, please let me know and thank you so much!
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Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckers
Yeah, I should have researched more. I saw the Beckett booth and figured it was the same thing (since they own CBCS and all!) but then saw the official CBCS booth on day 2.

I contacted Mr. Roman from his email posted in another thread. Fingers crossed for good news!


Mark Roman is no longer with CBCS. I'll have to remove his email from the posts here. Last I heard, you need to contact Darryl Hayden. His email is: dhayden@cbcscomics.com If Darryl can't help, he'll forward it to whoever can.


@Jesse_O, thanks for the update, I appreciate the assist!


@ruckers, what did the email say? I have a similar situation. does the sticker count against the grade? even though that's the way beckett insures authenticity. It shouldn't since beckett owns CBCS but who knows and did they agree to waive the authentication fees since becket authenticates CBCS sumbissions? what color label will it get either way?
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@sportshort It would get a red label and the sticker should count against the grade. It may be how Beckett authenticates signatures and if they accept it as authentication for a CBCS label should have nothing to do with the grade of the book.
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Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
@dielinfinit, i am going to ask you to open your mind to the argument I am about to make without any pre-conceived notions. Here we go, does that seem right? that CBCS (who is owned by Becket) does not automatically authenticate comics that have been witnessed by their parent company? Becket must state (i haven' looked into this as i am to unmotivated) to their customer that they're eyewitness authentication is completely verifiable because of the tamper proof way they authenticate (sticker) (I've have assumed all of this so far). Apparently neither CBCS nor Beckett believe their own witness authentication method as CBCS will only give you a red label. furthermore By Beckett (the parent company) placing a sticker (which CBCS has no apparent faith in) they are lowering the value of the book! Does any of this make sense to you? not to me.
Post 11 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@sportshort It does make sense to me, though I too am curious about what Daryl’s email said.

Beckett didn’t witness the signatures. @ruckers said in his very first sentence that he got the books signed then verified. A CBCS yellow label is only given to books where the signing was witnessed by a CBCS Authorized Witness or mailed in directly by the artist.

If CBCS accepts Beckett’s verification, which I already suggested as a possibility in my first post here since Beckett is the one who verifies the signatures for CBCS red labels anyways, it would make sense for it to be a red label because you’re essentially doing the red label steps but slightly out of order.


Beckett’s service involves verifying the signature not preserving the condition of the item. Just because CBCS’ parent company is responsible for the sticker does not mean that it should not affect the grade. In fact, I think it would be unwise for them to take that approach because they’d essentially be playing favorites, passing over flaws only because their parent company put it there when other organizations do the exact same thing to certify signatures, like Wizard and even Stan Lee’s company, but get hit on the grade for. You would then have instances of books being say, a 9.4 red label except one has a third-party’s sticker permanently affixed to it and the other does not. THAT doesn’t make sense to me.


That said, there are a couple of instances where CBCS let’s things slide a little on red labels but I don’t think they’re really analogous to this situation. In a case where verification is requested on a signature accompanied by a sketch, if the signature passes verification then the sketch is not counted against the grade, though the sketch isn’t declared to be by the signee.

Also in cases where the signature is accompanied by an edition number (like say 51/100) indicating it is part of a run of signed comics, if the signature is verified the writing for the edition number is not counted on the grade and is even mentioned on the label. But I feel these are different from the situation at hand because they are often part of the actual signing process as opposed to a third party coming in later.
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Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
I like your defense some good points made at this moment the only question I have is, Does CBCS re-authenticate, thereby charging extra, on an already Beckett authenticated signature? another question I have, and don't know if you know the answer to this but does Beckett witness signatures at the shows they attend like the one mentioned by @ruckers? PSA/DNA puts a sicker on your items but only if they witness the signing themselves. Beckett doesn't do this?
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
I don’t know if CBCS would charge on a Beckett-Verified signature, I suggested that waiving the fee is a possibility but hopefully Darryl’s email answered that question.

I’ve not dealt with Beckett directly but they apply (slightly different) stickers to both Verified and Witnessed signatures. I’m unsure what their process is for witnessing signatures, as they’re mostly focused on baseball cards and signatures, or maybe the option is only available at specific events/signings.
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Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
Cool, hopefully we can find out some answers to the whole email thing. I think it’s worth sharing.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
@Darryl_H, thanks for the reply, much appreciated! I did send a follow-up, hopefully answered shortly about process.

For @sportshort and @dielinfinite, CBCS will accept the Beckett-authenticated signatures, but sadly it will affect the grade of the book. My follow-up email was to verify what label I can get (assuming red and I'm OK with that) and how to submit without getting charged for it.

I would argue for conversation's sake that, no matter who is authenticating, having something like a small sticker on the inside should not degrade the value of the book since it has an actual function as part of the book. And this function is to, in turn, verify that the VALUE of the book is being increased by assuring any potential buyers that whatever the added content, it is authentic.

I'm only a collector though, with no intention to sell so I'm not all that upset by it. Maybe one day my kids will be if they are trying to sell them.
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Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckers
@Darryl_H, thanks for the reply, much appreciated! I did send a follow-up, hopefully answered shortly about process.

For @sportshort and @dielinfinite, CBCS will accept the Beckett-authenticated signatures, but sadly it will affect the grade of the book. My follow-up email was to verify what label I can get (assuming red and I'm OK with that) and how to submit without getting charged for it.

I would argue for conversation's sake that, no matter who is authenticating, having something like a small sticker on the inside should not degrade the value of the book since it has an actual function as part of the book. And this function is to, in turn, verify that the VALUE of the book is being increased by assuring any potential buyers that whatever the added content, it is authentic.

I'm only a collector though, with no intention to sell so I'm not all that upset by it. Maybe one day my kids will be if they are trying to sell them.


I agree with your contention regarding the sticker, and am a little upset that it detracts from the book. I understand it now but not when I got it initially, no one said "are you sure you want do this this? it will detract from the value of your book". I get it that they are trying to make a sale but given the choice and information I might not have opted for the sticker.
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Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportshort


I agree with your contention regarding the sticker, and am a little upset that it detracts from the book. I understand it now but not when I got it initially, no one said "are you sure you want do this this? it will detract from the value of your book". I get it that they are trying to make a sale but given the choice and information I might not have opted for the sticker.


Yeah, like I said above, my own fault for not looking into it further. I wish the CBCS and Beckett booths were one and the same: "What are you looking for today, sir? Comics, here's CBCS; other, here's Beckett."
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckers
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportshort


I agree with your contention regarding the sticker, and am a little upset that it detracts from the book. I understand it now but not when I got it initially, no one said "are you sure you want do this this? it will detract from the value of your book". I get it that they are trying to make a sale but given the choice and information I might not have opted for the sticker.


Yeah, like I said above, my own fault for not looking into it further. I wish the CBCS and Beckett booths were one and the same: "What are you looking for today, sir? Comics, here's CBCS; other, here's Beckett."


Customer service, what a novel idea.
Post 19 IP   flag post
CBCS Darryl_H private msg quote post Address this user
Any sticker will be counted against the grade, even a Beckett sticker as it is something added to the book and not a part of the printing process.

Same with say a Stan Lee collectible sticker on a Stan Signed book. It will count against the grade....
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl_H
Any sticker will be counted against the grade, even a Beckett sticker as it is something added to the book and not a part of the printing process.

Same with say a Stan Lee collectible sticker on a Stan Signed book. It will count against the grade....


I get it, and I understand it but we as consumers are not educated (especially initially) about the downside of these verification stickers until we submit a book and then, it's too late. I also know that it would hurt Beckett's sales if they had a sign stating that getting a verification/witness sticker actually will make your investment worth less. Even knowing these things to be true it still stings.

But thanks for the clarification @Darryl_H
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
@Darryl_H , maybe you can answer here for future reference (I asked you via email as well), but what is the proper process to submit via CBCS with pre-authenticated books and not get charged extra?

I want to make sure I'm getting my red label but not paying again for what I have already paid.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector ruckers private msg quote post Address this user
I got an answer from CBCS costumer service that I can submit my books under the Verified (red label) banner and not be charged since the Beckett sticker signifies it's been verified.

I did ask if I were to remove the sticker (which reduces the grade by being attached) and just submitted with the card Beckett provides that also verifies the signature but they said "no bueno":
"The Beckett sticker should be on the book so we do not charge you for the signature again and it will be a red label. If there is no Beckett sticker you will be charged for verifying the signature."

That said, for any interested, you could remove the Beckett sticker and then would not have anything reducing the grade of the book, but would then have to pay again to verify the sig.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Those stickers are supposed to be tamper-evident so removing may not be easy and could damage the book which could reduce the grade more than having the sticker would
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
I doubt the sticker on the inside of the book has much affect on the grade. It's a defect, yes. But inside? Probably not much.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector sportshort private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
I doubt the sticker on the inside of the book has much affect on the grade. It's a defect, yes. But inside? Probably not much.


somebody knows by how much, i would guess it's a standard deduction, whatever it is. can someone chime in with what kind of a hit is taken when there is a Becket or PSA/DNA interior sticker present.
Post 26 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
The CBCS Grading Guide doesn’t mention stickers specifically but first mentions “very small amounts of tape,” which I would imagine to be similar, in the 7.0-5.5 range

But I doubt it would be that big a hit since here’s an example of a book with the Wizard sticker on the cover earning an 8.0

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