The first superhero - the Phantom!!!8439
 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I consider The Phantom as the first comic book super hero. Fight me. | ||
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 Collector
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michaelekrupp private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You’re preaching to the choir, bro. | ||
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| clickable text Gilgamesh |
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Collector
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michaelekrupp private msg quote post Address this user | |
Excellent choice. Truth is, there have been superheroes as long as there have been people telling stories. I do agree that as far as comic book/ comic strips go, the Phantom is the first character that checks all the boxes. Plus, I don’t want @kaptainmyke to beat me up! |
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 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I figured out WHY many of us consider the Phantom as the first modern day comic book superhero. Here's the definition of a modern day comic book superhero that I think most would agree with. 1) Superhuman abilities, or at least highly augmented abilities or tools. By tools I mean things like Batman's gadgets all the way to Ironman's suits. Extremely high intelligence or knowledge can sometimes be classified as "superhuman" because it is out of the ordinary, it is a superior or "super" ability. Paranormal and mutant abilities can also fall under this category. 2) A sense of justice. To be a hero, one must have a core belief in justice. It can be warped a bit, like Punisher, but it is there. 3) A unique costume. This was especially important in the early days of comics. It's importance has waned over the years, but when you see Wolverine in his X-men uniform, there is no doubt he is a hero. The costume can have a mask, cape, gloves, etc., but it doesn't have to have all of the same elements. It must be unique looking and be recognizable in a battle. 4) His or her feats must have been published in comic book form. For simplicity, I am accepting reprints of newspaper strips published in a comic book form for this definition. It does not need to be original material. Based on this, an argument can be made that the Phantom was the first modern comic book superhero. Mandrake was dressed as a magician and Lothar as an African prince. The Lone Ranger was dressed as a bandit. Popeye was dressed in a sailor's uniform. The Phantom has a PURPLE skintight outfit!!! I'm not saying that this is indisputable. But to figure out who the first modern day comic book superhero is, then "modern day comic book superhero" needs a definition. Your definition may differ than mine. And this will probably stir up more debate, but let's not fight about it!!! LOL!! |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Batman, Punisher, Daredevil, Anti-Venom, Agent Venom, Nick Fury, Black Cat, Wolverine, Deadpool, Casey Jones etc are not a super heroes. They are all just a vigilante hellbent on revenge. Spider-man, Superman, The Phantom, Ant-man, Green Lantern, Ninja Turtles, etc are the types I would consider your classic "super hero". |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I agree that the Punisher is not a superhero. He was just what came to my mind when describing that the "sense of justice" can be a bit offcenter in a character. Magneto would have been a better choice because he does sometimes play the "hero" role. He's kind of like a wrestler that way - he can be a "face" or a "heel". | ||
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jesse_O You make excellent points and really there are only shades of gray in-between opinions. But most comic historians believe Mandrake is the first. The "costume" angle really parses definitions to the tiniest degree. Zatanna dresses like a magician's assistant and I've never heard any debate on if she is a "costumed" superhero. The Phantom Stranger in his original appearance was a guy in black suit and black trench coat. The Ringmaster and his Circus of Crime dress like circus performers. But we don't debate if they are "super villains". So yeah. Mandrake's "costume" was that of a magician. Lothar dressed like what Falk thought an African Prince might look like. They are still distinct costumes. They would stand out on a busy street in nearly every city in America. Jessica Jones, Constantine, Professor X - there is probably quite a list to be made of super hero types that do without costumes Finally they are way, WAY too powerful to not conclude the "super" part. Mandrake's mentalist (he hypnotizes people very fast) were formidable.. Lothar is in Superman's class. At least the original Superman. Lifts elephants one handed. Impervious to man made weapons, impervious to direct magic attacks, nearly unlimited stamina. Need I mention that they spent most of their time fighting criminals and supernatural entities? |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IronMan I'll totally agree that Mandrake and Lothar are superheros!! But, I'd classify them as a unique, transitional, maybe even evolutionary, type of superhero. In my opinion, superheroes have existed since parents started telling stories to their children. Any mythological or religious teachings have heroes and villains with other-than-human powers. Fast forward to pulp magazines. I think Mandrake and Lothar are an obvious extension of pulp magazine superheros - Black Bat, the Spider, Mr. Magic, etc. Before the Phantom, the superheros wore clothing that was normal to their cultures or work. Or, more accurately, what the artist perceived as "normal" attire for the hero's identity. Mandrake's outfit was no different than other magicians at the time. Put him in a magician's conference and he gets lost. Supposedly, Lothar was dressed as an African prince. It was stereotypical for it's time, but that was how he was portrayed. The same can be said for other pulp superheros. But the Phantom??? I don't think there were any stores in the world that carried a skintight purple outfit at that time. There may have been, but I bet it was open to only a select type of client. And it is that single fact, the purple outfit, that sets him apart and starts a new trend for superheros. That is why "modern" is in there. Mandrake and Lothar were old school. The Phantom was new school. Plus, the introduction of the Phantom was a turning point. A MAJOR turning point. Without him, would Superman have had such a bright colorful outfit? If not for the Phantom, would we still have heroes dressed only in everyday style clothing? Would the original X-men suits been military styled? Maybe someone would have eventually done it, but the Phantom was the first to do it. |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jesse_O Well - I won't debate it further..I love the Phantom. If comic fandom ultimately decides that the Phantom was the first costumed super hero, maybe my Ace Comics 11 will someday approach the value of Action Comics 1  Seems unlikely, but hey, I can hope. If the Phantom had just been on the cover and featured a new story, not comic strip reprints.....I do believe that costumes would have been a natural development with super heroes. Inevitable. It ties in with the need for a secret identity. In a world where one is fighting super powered and/or supernatural threats, the need for being anonymous makes sense. Otherwise these forces might target family, friends. Or even the hero themselves when they are at normal, unguarded moments. There are places in the world right now where the police and/or military coming after organized crime, drug dealers and terrorists cover their faces. To protect their families from reprisals. Great post and discussion Jesse! |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IronMan Thanks Tony!!! I always enjoy discussing things with you!!! If it weren't for our facebook discussion on this topic, I probably would have never delved deeply into it. But once that can or worms was opened, I tried to figure out WHY most comic book historians consider Mandrake the first comic book superhero, and MANY people I know (no dummies among them) consider it to be the Phantom. I figured it had to be a matter of definition. This is actually what I decided upon: The first comic book superhero - Mandrake. The first modern comic book superhero - the Phantom. What difference one little word can make!!!! |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Great dialogue folks!!! | ||
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 Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If we are defining a superhero as one who does good deeds and wears skin tight outfits, Robin Hood predates the Phantom and Mandrake. Furthermore, Robin Hood’s role as recurring character in DC Comics precedes even Superman's debut in June 1938. |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Yes.... by at least 500 years. Except for the skin tight costume. That came much later. Early images of Robin Hood have him dressed appropriate to the period. Even the classic Douglas Fairbanks movie only has him wearing tights. On top he wears a short sleeved shirt and a tunic. All of the characters mentioned here and more had an influence on the comic book superhero. The creators of Superman had read Tarzan (1912) Doc Savage, the Shadow, Mandrake and the Phantom. Seen the Mask of Zorro, Robin Hood, Three Musketeers at the movies. So it's hard to nail down the first. It ultimately depends on the definition. There is a reason Action Comics 1 is the most expensive comic. Superman didn't appear anywhere else before he appeared in comics. Prior to Action 1 most comics were reprinting comic strips. Superman was clearly super powered, had the secret ID, the costume. And most important established that the public would pay 10 cents to read the adventures of a totally new character. It didn't have to be recognized, established characters from outside of comics. This lead to an explosion of comic books devoted to newly created characters. But Robin Hood is certainly important and a great addition to the discussion |
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Collector
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michaelekrupp private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Sorry for the late reply. It got crazy busy at work yesterday and I had to drop out of the conversation. Jesse, I agree with your points as you laid them out, but I think there is one key omission that is a big difference between why the Phantom is the first superhero and Mandrake is not: A superhero’s identity is not publicly known. This is a key reason why I would consider the Phantom a superhero and Mandrake and Lothar adventurers. Great conversation all the way around and I really enjoyed everyone’s input! |
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 Collector
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Another educational fun read. What is considered the first comic book appearance of The Phantom? I have some of his comic books early and later versions. Also some of his comic strips. Columbo was a Super Hero!!!!! |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
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Collector
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Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Savage_Spawn Sheeez, sorry guys I see Ironman had already provided the answer on page one. My brain is still scrambled from the last remnants of my recovery. Carry on..... |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Savage_Spawn No worries!!! I fried all my brain cells up trying to figure out why people thought like they thought!! LOL!! | ||
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Davidone private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The Phantom may be the most widely published hero in history and yet he is not very popular in America. Does anyone know his first comic appearance? There are many very early appearances in Brazil, Argentina, Australia and a few other countries | ||
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