Dispelling the myth of the INCENTIVE variant4358
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det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user | |
| interesting in many ways. I know for a fact that in the 1960s, Marvel had a dept that sold back issues. Printed but not sold in stores yet...Marvel was selling them. Interesting that they were willing to initiate making variants. For me, all I can factually see are the listings in Previews for a particular issue to be sold with the different artists cover options. Why do I care about numbers? Not to be an authority, but to let me know will those artists I like have a good chance to do more covers. Will a certain type of cover scheme be used more or not. Will it make a diff to how I collect for this title? I know my tastes aren't the same as the majority. Might I get an extra for the sake of future trading? maybe. I have a limited budget, so it's very few. Funny part of all this? On other threads, there is wondering of how soon comics will go all digital. What would that do to possible variants? |
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Let's consider this paragraph, piece by piece. First: if you take a 1:100 variant and multiply that by the number of copies sold, that gives you the potential maximum amount of copies necessary to fulfill qualifying orders, right...? But how accurate is that potential maximum...? Doesn't it rely on a statistical impossibility...? That every single store, or nearly every single store, ordered an exact multiple of 100, leaving no, or very little, remainder...? And we know, in practice, that that doesn't happen, right...? How many stores actually qualified to order this variant...? We don't know. How many stores ordered 36 copies, or 78 copies, or 127 copies...? We don't know. How many stores that qualified actually ordered it (and yes, this DOES happen, odd as it may sound)...? We don't know. How many stores used their financial leverage to get MORE copies than they qualified for, as OCC points out...? We don't know. So, while yes, your "maximum" number of copies could potentially exist, it is a THEORETICAL number, not a REAL number. The truth is, no one but Diamond and the publishers know how many copies are necessary to fulfill qualifying orders. All you have is a THEORETICAL maximum, a POTENTIAL maximum, which, in practice, never turns out to be an ACTUAL maximum. After all...if only 238 (total guess, here) stores qualified, then only 238 copies would be necessary. What if only 113 stores qualified...? 478? 12? We have no idea, and no way of knowing, and we have no idea how, if at all, that affects the print run decisions of these variants made by publishers. Now, let's consider the word "sales": sales where...? To whom....? Diamond only reports sales in North America. How many are sold in the UK? We don't know. How many are sold in Australia? We don't know. How many are sold in Hong Kong? We don't know. And there are people in the UK, Australia, Hong Kong, and around the world, who are just as rabid about these variants as people in North America. And further, is "fulfilling qualifying orders" the publishers' only, or even main, concern in establishing their print run...? Other than establishing a minimum necessary, we don't know. Whole swaths of unknown variables that have a direct and real effect on the information you're trying to claim can be used to make an "educated" guess about these variants. Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Not just likely, we KNOW there were more printed than qualifying orders, because Finch has them for sale at cons. We also know, from past experience as detailed in this thread, that both DC and Marvel use ratio incentives for promotional purposes AND sales long after their release, in numbers substantially higher than what was necessary for qualifying orders. Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Because there comes a point, when too many variables are unknown, that a certain "data point" becomes irrelevant. It doesn't "help approximate a rough idea of copies available", because there are variables that have a statistically significant effect on the number you're trying to estimate that are simply unknown and unknowable. Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer No. The census represents ACTUAL HARD NUMBERS, that is, how many grading events for a particular issue have taken place, and at what grades. Those aren't THEORETICAL numbers, those are REAL numbers. CGC has ACTUALLY graded that book THAT many times. And while the census does not account for resubmissions where the old labels weren't turned in, and does not account for books that have subsequently been cracked, it DOES represent an ACTUAL NUMBER of times that issue has been graded by CGC. Your "potential maximum" is a THEORETICAL, as opposed to a REAL, number. Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Correct. It is complete trash because it relies on multiple variables that are unknown and, currently, unknowable. Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer That statement has no meaning. What is "hand grenade accurate", and how do you put hard numbers to such a statement? "Market availability" only tells us one thing: how many are available on the market. It gives us a clue as to how rare something might be, but it's only a clue, a hint. There have been lots of books that had "limited market availability" that turned out to be quite common after all (Silver Surfer #4, Conan #3, etc.) Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer No, and no one said they were. But it is a mischaracterization to call it "hoarding books", as if the publishers are holding these books back to influence the market. They are not. They warehouse them...oh yes they do...to deal with as they see fit, when they see fit. That doesn't mean they have "100k" of them...let's not be silly...but they do maintain supplies of them, for promotional and other purposes, sometimes years after the fact. |
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det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos If the slab services are "new" and in very small numbers, if I want to sell a book I'll use them. If I don't, I won't. Books slabbed say they have been reviewed, but that's it. These books can still further deteriorate. If I want to read that book again for the full flavor of that time,I'm not going to slab it. Some heavy duty acid free bags and cardboard will do the same job as long as I'm keeping the books. SLABS are not air and water tight? I don't need to slab it if I don't want to sell it. Thousands of collectors may feel the same way if they have the same book. Yes, I might slab a variant because I only have that for the cover but not my single issue collection. |
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| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Minimum print run size....the printers my company uses for our products (labels mind you) have a minimum print run size. You want 500 - you will pay for 1000, now we don't give labels away as promo so if minimum run size is more than you need and you will pay for it anyway...why not get at least the minimum that you are being charged for. Want 1000 you will get 1000+ 5-10% as the machines aren't that accurate and the supplier always gives you more. Really really only want 1000, order slightly less so that the 5-10% overage brings you closer to the actual 1000 |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @det_tobor Yup...selling is a major factor in deciding if I'm going to slab (and I almost never sell). I see some books going for crazy$ in my opinion...if I and others sent in our books to slab then that 9.6-9.8 rarity goes away | ||
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det_tobor private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thank you @KatKomics. As to variants and numbers, see my post #76. | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DocBrown its pointless arguing. You can live in your black and white world speculating on nothing, and I'll live in mine; I like life a bit more colorful. Quote: Originally Posted by X51 I think I'll follow your lead at this point. Cheers  |
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| @shrewbeer I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. They are logical and come across as very rational. Like I’ve stated in my posts, I have no idea and can’t provide answers to any of the questions I’ve posed in the thread. I just have a bunch of questions. The ones I posted are the same ones that always pop into my consciousness whenever I read a thread like this one on any comic collecting forum. Truth be told, a bunch of other questions come to the surface too. I’m just polite enough and have enough tact not to ask them. I wish I could get worked up about anything in this thread but I can’t. Print runs? Really?  The following is just general view-points that occurred to me while reading parts of the threads like these in the past and aren't aimed at specific poster... I do know that variants are a niche in the comic market just like signed books, double covers or whatever catches a collector’s fancy. While they aren’t an important part of what I collect; I do realize that, they are important to others within the hobby. Attempting to be a Captain Bring-Down over them just isn’t the direction in life I would choose to follow. From where I sit and read this thread and others like it on various forums, arguing and being belligerent is a funny way to want to live your life. That’s the direction threads like these often move towards. When they do, they become a Mr. Meeseek’s contest by some of those involved that want to use them to accomplish “something”. Unfortunately, the antagonistic feelings that are generated aren’t removed from existence once the thread runs its course like Mr. Meseek's when his task is finished. (I threw in the Mr. Meeseek reference as I learned about that character on this very forum). Maybe those feelings are the point that some wish to interject into that forum but then again maybe they aren't. Who knows? At the end of the day, I might have a variant here or there. I just don’t pick them up when they are the hottest thing people are scooping up. Just like I’d never purchase an artist signed book right after that artist’s death. Just like there are certain sellers/vendors, on eBay and at conventions, I would never purchase anything from. Those actions wouldn’t be prudent for me to follow. (Everything I posted is rhetorical in nature. While some might "feel" that what I have written is about them or aimed at them, it isn't). |
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| I'm making some popcorn to follow this thread! lol | ||
| Post 84 • IP flag post | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
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| Post 85 • IP flag post | ||
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It doesn't seem reasonable to me to assume a 1:50 variant or a 1:100 variant is anything but 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 for a print run. Sure, they won't sell all the variants to stores, for the reasons given. But why print more than 1/50 or 1/100? Why cheat on the stated ratios? The 'evidence' seems to come down to: Marvel and DC could be lying. But why on Earth would they? If Diamond has extra copies, due to the non-ratio-based sales to stores, it seems reasonable that they would give them away at dealer conferences and such. If Marvel and DC have extras, it seems reasonable that they would give them to creators to sell at cons, or would sell them in the employee store. But I just don't think they have any incentive to lie about the print runs. Maybe after the fact, to cover up the odd mistake. I wouldn't put that past them. But to lie as a matter of policy? I don't think so. It would be too easy for this to blow up in their faces. It's pretty safe to assume, therefore, that if Marvel advertises a variant of Spider-man at 1:100, and they print 100,000 (or whatever) of the comic, then they will print 1000 of the variant. (Or as close as they can get, given the vagaries of the printing process.) If they sell only 89,000 to Diamond, then they will have 110 extra variant copies, more or less, to give to creators. And if Diamond therefore received 890 of the variant, but only sold 650 to stores (due to orders that were not evenly divisible by 100) then they have 240 extra variant copies. But Diamond can't just sell these extra variants on eBay. As an educated guess, it would probably violate their contract with Marvel and their promise to retailers. So they have all these extra variant comics that they have to do something with. Why not give them away, down the line, to retailers? As a bonus for attending the retailers' conference? DocBrown is right to say that sales numbers represent only sales, and don't accurately reflect variant print runs. But that's no reason to conclude the print run ratios are bogus. Further, even if the educated guess based on sales + ratios is off, at least it will be consistently off for every comic, at a pretty consistent rate. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Tedsaid thats the most sound logic I've heard yet |
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| Post 87 • IP flag post | ||
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Tedsaid Due to production costs, Diamond has a minimum that the publishers have to commit to production. |
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Logan510 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I don't speak for the whole board, but I assume most here would appreciate some more succinctness from certain parties. Also, maybe try talking to people instead of at them. Just food for thought. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Logan510 I have asked you, on multiple occasions, to not interact with me. Despite me ignoring you for weeks, you insist on trying to interact with me. So, if you can't be bothered to honor my requests, why would anyone be expected to honor yours...? And what business is it of anyone's except the people who run this board how "succinct" someone is or is not...? Isn't that quite presumptuous to ask that of anyone...? Quote: Originally Posted by Logan510 That is, of course, your opinion. I have always found it interesting that those who DISAGREE usually claim they're being talked AT, while those who agree think they're being talked to. Funny how that works, isn't it...? |
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| Post 90 • IP flag post | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There is a big incentive to print more of a limited comic. It's like printing money if they do increase in value on the secondary market. | ||
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This thread + another CBCS thread for "favorite quote" leads me to a quote on my statistician work colleagues wall - "In God we Trust; all else bring data". Just to get him wired when I get back to work tomorrow I think I'm going to give him flawed data and see how he reacts.... lol |
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| Post 93 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by Tedsaid No...they're not lying. Those ratios are for ordering purposes only. Let me say it again: those ratios are for ordering purposes only. They have nothing to do with the print runs of any of the books involved. There's nothing implied, nor should anything be inferred, beyond what Marvel, DC, and other ratio incentive publishers say up front: "you order X copies of the regular, you get 1 copy of the variant." Anything beyond that...everything beyond that...is conjecture, speculation, and has nothing to do with the publishers. They neither claim, nor deny, anything further than that. So, where does that leave us....? We know that these publishers have, for many years now, printed in excess of what they need for qualifying orders. We know that because 1. they have handed out many of these ratio incentive variants at events like the Diamond Retailer Summits, and the like. 2. they have sold, through Diamond, hundreds of ratio incentives, at discounted prices, months and years after those books were initially sold. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid What does "non-ratio-based sales to stores" mean? But let's clarify before you go further: DIAMOND does not give these away...the PUBLISHERS do. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid Ok, but why would they have extras if they're "printing to the ratio"...? Wouldn't that be a "lie", as you claim...? Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid You're making the same error that jaydogrules has made for several years now: you're assuming that there's some sort of subterfuge going on. There is not. Marvel, DC, et al make no claims about the print runs of their various ratio incentives. Therefore, there is no lie involved, because there's no claim to lie about. If you START with the assumption that these books are printed to order, and that those ratios are PRINT numbers, rather than merely ORDER QUALIFICATION requirements, then yes, you're going to come to this conclusion...but you can't start with that assumption, because the publishers have never, ever, not even once, made such a claim. Ever. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid Ok, that's your claim. Now...how do you explain the hundreds or thousands of copies that Marvel might give out of that variant at the Diamond Retailer Summit, or elsewhere...? And how do you explain the hundreds or thousands of copies that Marvel might sell through Diamond, a year after the book was published...? And...perhaps most importantly...how do you arrive at your figure of "100,000 printed"...? And finally...on what basis is it "safe to assume" that the number "1:100" has anything whatsoever to do with the print run of that book, indeed, anything beyond simply telling retailers what they have to order to qualify for one, when the publishers have never...in over a decade...made such a claim, or even hinted at such a claim...? Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid Your reasoning is flawed. Let me explain why. Do you know what the FOC is...? It means "Final Order Cutoff", and it currently stands (someone correct me if I'm wrong) at 3 weeks out, on the Monday of that week. That means that all orders from retailers must be in, so the publisher can determine how many they need to print. http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/736?articleID=106991 Marvel knows...as does DC, as do most publishers...exactly how many copies they need to print to satisfy orders. That includes exactly how many qualifying orders were placed for any incentive variants. In theory, if they have orders for 89,000, they'll need 890...but as I explained above, that never happens in practice. So, even if they have orders for 89,000, but they "printed" 100,000 of the regular, and a corresponding 1,000 of the incentive variant...they're going to have substantially more than 110 "leftover." How many...? We don't know. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid That's not how the program works. If they only had 650 qualifying orders, one, MARVEL, not Diamond, determines what happens with "the extras" (which has nothing to do with your scenario here, because that's not how the ordering process works), and...using your logic, now...why would Marvel print 1,000 copies, if they only need 650 to fulfill qualifying orders...? How much they need is not a secret. Diamond knows the following Tuesday morning how many qualify and how many they need, which they then pass on to the publishers. Do you see how this house of cards you've constructed falls apart...? So, Marvel knows how many they need to print THREE WEEKS before they show up on store shelves, but they're going to print "100,000" of the regular book and "1,000" of the incentive variant anyways...? Based on what, exactly...? And then, they "sell" 89,000 copies (even though they know exactly how many they'll need BEFORE THEY ARE PRINTED), and only 650 stores place qualifying orders, BEFORE THEY ARE PRINTED, but they go ahead and print 1,000 "just because it's a 1:100, and they don't want people thinking they're lying (even though they've never claimed those ratios have anything to do with anything beyond order requirements)"...? You've constructed an argument that is wholly backwards, and not at all how the comic publishing industry works. It sounds reasonable...to those not familiar with how comic publishing works...but when you know how comic publishing works, what "qualifying orders" means, what "FOC" means, then you don't make up hypotheses that don't have anything to do with how comic publishing works. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid Because the PUBLISHERS, NOT DIAMOND, determines what happens with the additional copies they printed. Diamond has nothing whatsoever to do with those extra copies. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid Correct. They're not bogus. The only thing those numbers mean is "this is how many copies of the regular cover you have to order to get 1 copy of the incentive cover." Anything...and everything...beyond that is neither implied, nor should be inferred. Trying to apply order qualification ratios to print runs in any way is pure conjecture, and should not be attempted. It has no meaning. That's not what those numbers mean, and that's not what those numbers have ever meant. Quote: Originally Posted by tedsaid It's not an educated guess. You're trying to apply an ORDERING formula to a SALES figure to arrive at a PRINT RUN. That's not educated. That's no more valid than throwing a dart at a piece of paper on the wall. |
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| Post 94 • IP flag post | ||
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey, its your money. Spend it on what you want. And caveat emptor. Having said those two things. I would like to add something that I wrote on this forum a couple of years ago. I have a comic book collecting friend, who gifted me some Fantasy Cards from a major fantasy card company. He gave me two different ones that he said were limited editions of 100 each. But these were "extras". I asked for an explanation of "extras" and this is what he told me. He said his brother owns the company that makes these cards. And that when the company puts out a limited edition card. They ALWAYS make a bunch more. Because they aren't stupid. They know that many times limited editions of anything develop a higher secondary market value than original price. So why would a company NOT do this in the comic book field, where a book can go from $4.99 to $199.00 virtually overnight? There are plenty of family, friends and business arrangements that can move these items for the extremely high profits. And dodge corporate taxes to boot. Win-win for the company, or just for the lower level employee who prints these things up. You don't really think there are guards watching these things made, and counting them. Do you? Just imagine if you worked where they printed up comic books. Wouldn't you make a few extra to put away for a raining day? If you were the foreman or company Vice President. You would want some extra for yourself. If you were the CEO, you would say "make another 600 of those for my personal files, or for gifts". Always, always, always, follow the money. It DOES make the world go round. |
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| Post 95 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Just because you don't understand how the process works...and just because you're offended that someone would dare say that out loud...doesn't mean that the other party is "speculating on nothing." I have explained...exhaustively...the issues involved here. I presented an argument. You weren't required to respond, but respond you did. Your choice. Have you considered that perhaps someone knows more than you about this...? After all...you didn't even understand how the Statements of Ownership worked, and thought that the average print run PER ISSUE needed to be further divided by 12, to come up with an "average print run" of 24k...or, perhaps 40k...copies of ASM #300, as reported in the SOO in ASM #315. A relatively careful reading would have shown you that those numbers were not to be taken as the whole, but rather clearly stated that those numbers are PER ISSUE:  This is from New X-Men #135, but it's essentially the same. Look at line item #15A: "Total No. Copies Printed (net press run): Average no. copies printed EACH ISSUE during preceding 12 months..." (emphasis added) And that phrase, "each issue", is repeated in parts B and C and D and E and F and G and I (!) "Each issue" is repeated no less than ELEVEN times in section 15. And, if that wasn't enough, one can use the "issue closest to filing date" to see that, if the issue nearest to filing date was 154,742 (15A), then the AVERAGE couldn't possibly be 234,871 for the entire 12 months, unless the average for the OTHER 11 months was only 6,677 copies! Obviously, that's not right. It's sloppy and careless. It's not critical thinking. And it wouldn't be a problem, except that you carry this sloppy carelessness around with you, and then make haughty, demeaning statements like the one that began your post here. And when someone corrects you, if it's not phrased the way you like, or it comes from a source you don't like, your hackels go up. Perhaps the proud one here, the one who can't be reasoned with, the one who thinks he knows everything...ISN'T me. Maybe. As someone else has said "some food for thought." |
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| Post 96 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I just want to second a thought posted earlier in this thread. There is something to be said for brevity or at least breaking up posts to express multiple points separately. I gotta admit that I sometimes skip some posts that appear to be a wall of text. | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos There's an interesting video I found the other day that mentions this: The salient part begins at 4:06. Also..."Repetitio mater studiorum est" which means "repetition is the mother of all learning." If one won't read, doesn't that necessarily remove their ability to reply legitimately...? |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater "Hey! You're heading for a cliff! Watch out! Turn around before you fall off! At the very least, pay attention to where you're going!" = "Captain Bring-Down", right...? Encouraging people to think critically, rather than emotionally, which reaps tremendous benefits to those who take the advice (it certainly does and will continue to do so for me, and everyone else I know) is a good thing, but to you, it's characterized as "Captain Bring-Down." As for the rest, no one forced you to reply to this thread, or even read it. If you want to be the actual "Captain Bring-Down", that's your choice, but there's no denying that's what it is. What is your motive...? That people should think with their emotions, rather than reason...? How does that make any sense...? |
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DocBrown No of course you are right as always, the rest of the world is wrong. By all means fill up the entire screen with each post. Every word is just that important. | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Same here. Not that the points aren't valid. |
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Thanks, Shrewbeer! Quote: Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics Is that true, though, if just the cover changes? I assume not, but I don't have that information. Besides, a 1:100 variant is pretty rare. Maybe DC/Marvel can just eat the extra cost in order to produce these rare incentives. They already pay extra (usually) for the art. Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown I think this is the main point you make, Doc, that I disagree with. Of course a 1:100 variant implies a 1 to 100 print ratio. This is how any reasonable person would interpret it. And it is how the marketplace interprets it. (Which is why you have been at pains to explain your theory over the years.) You claim that DC and Marvel have never made this implied promise explicit, and I can't say that I have different information. I haven't asked them. But given how speculative your theory is, that the ratio on printing implication is wrong, I don't think your opinion carries much weight here. Have you spoken to the publishers on this issue? Or do you have any additional (i.e., factual) information? If what you say is true, and the publishers routinely print many extra copies of rare variants, then they are being systematically deceitful. I disagree. Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Well, they wouldn't print any extra copies as a matter of course, except to cover manufacturing defects, and perhaps a little cheating by the printer on the sly. But from my example above, Diamond (I'm assuming) ALSO has an incentive to order in groups of 100, and ALSO gets incentive copies. I don't know how it is now, but years ago (okay, decades) when I worked at my LCS, the owner would often pick up extra copies of hot comics, if he could. This happened with Batman #428, and The Dark Knight Returns. Which implies that Diamond routinely orders a few extra copies to sell when comic shop owners change their mind and want more. Diamond can't do this for every comic, and they can't risk doing it very much. But they are leaving money on the table and hurting their comic shops if they don't have a little extra here and there. Maybe it's only a few % higher, or maybe it depends on past trends. Diamond would be smart to gauge this sort of thing and try to be flexible. So in my example above, Diamond might increase their order to 90,000, instead of 89,000. They would get 900 of the variant, and have to give only 650 of these to the comic stores. (This is because some comic stores might order 60 and not get any of the 1:100 variant; or perhaps 160 and get only 1. That's what I meant by "non-ratio-based sales to stores." ) In this example, Diamond has about 1% extra of the main comic to sell to comic shop owners, AND they have about 250 extra (very rare) variants. If you have different information on how Diamond operates today, Doc, then I welcome your correction. But if you are just guessing, then I think my guess is better than yours. :-) |
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| Post 102 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Did you read my post above...? About the "walls of text" complaints...? What are your thoughts about that...? Here's something else to think about: everyone thinks they're right, always. No one walks around holding thoughts and opinions that they KNOW are wrong. If someone discovers something they believed is wrong, they discard it. "2 + 2 does not equal 5, and I know that, but I'm going to believe it does anyways." |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Why set up a straw man when you are already accusing others of it? Go back and read the Thread you are referring to here. We BOTH pulled our numbers off comichron, I clearly posted a pic of the screen I was reading, and yes I read that particular screen wrong (and was happy to admit it, see screenshot below). It was NOT the pic you just posted. Not even close. So now you're just making things up, when anyone can go back to that thread to see the truth. Wtf? And then accuse ME of being the one that cannot be reasoned with? Lmfao. Also, as far as I know, purposefully lying in a post with false information as you have done above, is punishable by ban. I'm always open to correction around here, I'm here to learn. From honest folks. Folks who are here because they love books, not because they just want to pointlessly argue til the cows come home   |
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| BTW, Shrewbeer ... until I typed your name above, I had been misreading it as "shrewBEAR." Literally for months! | ||
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