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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Just keeps climbing. . .wonder what the print run on this guy was seeing as how there's TONS of copies. . . that is all for the day
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Collector Relaxin89 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm pretty frustrated by it, bad timing on my part but I've been trying to pick one up (just a reader copy) for myself for a while. I don't want it because of any hype, just one of the missing issues I need for my collection, but the prices are just to ridiculous for me.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxin89
I'm pretty frustrated by it, bad timing on my part but I've been trying to pick one up (just a reader copy) for myself for a while not because of any hype but the prices are just to ridiculous for me.

Eh I was gonna pick up a couple copies a few months ago just to have but even then I thought $200 was too much. Can't even find a raw now for $500. I guess a hot book is a hot book doesn't matter the print run. I'd think itd be pretty high on this one. . .
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Collector Relaxin89 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesPaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxin89
I'm pretty frustrated by it, bad timing on my part but I've been trying to pick one up (just a reader copy) for myself for a while not because of any hype but the prices are just to ridiculous for me.

Eh I was gonna pick up a couple copies a few months ago just to have but even then I thought $200 was too much. Can't even find a raw now for $500. I guess a hot book is a hot book doesn't matter the print run. I'd think itd be pretty high on this one. . .


It was brought up a few weeks ago and someone mentioned that the prices were crazy because it had a really high print run.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxin89
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesPaine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxin89
I'm pretty frustrated by it, bad timing on my part but I've been trying to pick one up (just a reader copy) for myself for a while not because of any hype but the prices are just to ridiculous for me.

Eh I was gonna pick up a couple copies a few months ago just to have but even then I thought $200 was too much. Can't even find a raw now for $500. I guess a hot book is a hot book doesn't matter the print run. I'd think itd be pretty high on this one. . .


It was brought up a few weeks ago and someone mentioned that the prices were crazy because it had a really high print run.


See I thought itd be backwards. You'd figure the higher the print run the less valuable the comic, regardless the appearance. But I guess bc everyone has it, the rate at which it increases will happen bc people just want the book now!!!! I mean in two months this thing went from Graded 9.6 $500 to near a grand or more! My copy isn't even worth grading but geesh. I wonder if it will reach ASM 129 numbers???
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Total ASM sold that year 285,746. Divide by 12, you get a minimum of 23,812. Not every month was the same, but that gets you in the ballpark anyways. Even if that copy was printed double you'd have only 40k, most of which were newsstand and probably thrown away.

Id be interested to know if anyone has the actual number though, the year total is all I could find when I was looking.
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Collector prblankman private msg quote post Address this user
Easy way to find out approximate run: at the time, publishers were required to print a statement of circulation numbers. This was inserted annually, I believe, often on the letters page. See section 10 of this example from X-Men 229 (published May 1988, same month as ASM 300). If you have the issues surrounding 300, one of them should have a similar statement, which would give a rough idea of current circulation.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Total ASM sold that year 285,746. Divide by 12, you get a minimum of 23,812. Not every month was the same, but that gets you in the ballpark anyways. Even if that copy was printed double you'd have only 40k, most of which were newsstand and probably thrown away.

Id be interested to know if anyone has the actual number though, the year total is all I could find when I was looking.


Where do you get this information from...?

The average sales for the year that included ASM #300, as printed in the SOO of ASM #315, was 271,100 copies per issue. ASM #300 would have had a higher than average print run, being an anniversary issue, and a higher sell-through for the same reason. So, there were perhaps 300,000 copies of that book sold, which would have been pretty average for the time period. ASM had a pretty average sales rate for most of the 80's.

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/amazingspiderman.html

ASM #300 wasn't recognized as anything particularly noteworthy for a while after it was released. The first reason it became popular was for the McFarlane art. ASM #300 came out in Feb of 1988, and at the time, the only book that featured McFarlane art that was recognizable as "OMGWTFBBQ!!" McFarlane art would have been Hulk #340-343. ASM #298 and #299's pencils were buried under McLeod inks, and look completely pedestrian.

However, round about issue #305-307, the market started noticing the hot new Spiderman artist, and the books began their inexorable climb up the charts, peaking two years later with the publication of Spiderman #1. During that time, #298 was the more sought after book, being the "first McFarlane art", and #300 lagged a bit behind. They evened out with the publication of the OPG Update #12 in June of 1990.

Then, when Carnage came about, Venom became popular as a character, and with the publication of ASM #361-363, then #374-375, and finally Lethal Protector #1, ASM #300 left #298 in the dust, where it's been ever since.

ASM #300 wasn't an exceptionally high printed, or high sold, issue, which is why it's held its value over the years.
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Total ASM sold that year 285,746. Divide by 12, you get a minimum of 23,812. Not every month was the same, but that gets you in the ballpark anyways. Even if that copy was printed double you'd have only 40k, most of which were newsstand and probably thrown away.

Id be interested to know if anyone has the actual number though, the year total is all I could find when I was looking.


Where do you get this information from...?

The average sales for the year that included ASM #300, as printed in the SOO of ASM #315, was 271,100 copies per issue. ASM #300 would have had a higher than average print run, being an anniversary issue, and a higher sell-through for the same reason. So, there were perhaps 300,000 copies of that book sold, which would have been pretty average for the time period. ASM had a pretty average sales rate for most of the 80's.

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/amazingspiderman.html

ASM #300 wasn't recognized as anything particularly noteworthy for a while after it was released. The first reason it became popular was for the McFarlane art. ASM #300 came out in Feb of 1988, and at the time, the only book that featured McFarlane art that was recognizable as "OMGWTFBBQ!!" McFarlane art would have been Hulk #340-343. ASM #298 and #299's pencils were buried under McLeod inks, and look completely pedestrian.

However, round about issue #305-307, the market started noticing the hot new Spiderman artist, and the books began their inexorable climb up the charts, peaking two years later with the publication of Spiderman #1. During that time, #298 was the more sought after book, being the "first McFarlane art", and #300 lagged a bit behind. They evened out with the publication of the OPG Update #12 in June of 1990.

Then, when Carnage came about, Venom became popular as a character, and with the publication of ASM #361-363, then #374-375, and finally Lethal Protector #1, ASM #300 left #298 in the dust, where it's been ever since.

ASM #300 wasn't an exceptionally high printed, or high sold, issue, which is why it's held its value over the years.


Thanks for the great info Doc!!!! Ye it seems our friendly symbiote didn't get exploited until many years later after his appearance. Also as we have seen, value of comics these days can and usually does coincide with media announcements, for better or worse.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
here do you get this information from...?



@DocBrown same source you did, but I read it as yearly rather than average per book 😳



Again it would be great if there was a source that listed by month, unfortunately comichron doesnt go back that far it seems


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Collector eee91 private msg quote post Address this user
[EDIT: Oops - as docbrown pointed out, I posted the wrong one.]

Just as prblankman said- letters page, Amazing Spider-Man 301.


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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eee91
Just as prblankman said- letters page, Amazing Spider-Man 301.




Average number of copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 469,913.


This does not cover information for #300. That would have been covered in the SOO published in issue #315.
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Collector eee91 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
This does not cover information for #300. That would have been covered in the SOO published in issue #315.


Ah, gotcha.

Here's the one then from the letters page of ASM 315-


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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Soooooooo If thats total for twelve months we're looking at around 38,000 to 40,000 issues?? Or am I completely reading it incorrectly.

If its average you figure some sold more than others and you have to give a rough estimate.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@eee91 that one would suggest ASM300 did not sell better than the preceeding 12 month average. Doesnt make much sense thats the correct one...?

Line E. 271k vs 251k
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Collector eee91 private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer - Docbrown seems to know more about this than I do, but I think it has to do with the date that the Statement of Ownership was filed. The one printed in ASM 301 is dated October 1987 - so BEFORE ASM 300 (May 1988). The one printed in ASM 315 is dated October 1988, so the ASM 315 one is the one with ASM 300 numbers.

@NilesPaine - Pretty sure that the number is monthly copies printed. So don't divide the number by 12.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
When using data, it's important to understand what it means, what it covers, and where it comes from.

For example...in the Marvel newsstand era (prior to 2011), the number printed doesn't mean much. It's the number sold that is the important figure. That's because large numbers of newsstand copies were destroyed/reported as unsold and stripped. The sell through rate for the year 1988, which the SOO covers in #315, was about 60%...but that number is greatly muddied by the fact that the numbers contain BOTH the Direct market AND newsstand print runs. Traditionally, newsstand sell-through has been in the 20-35% range for comics.

However, the number of copies under part F...that is, copies not distributed...are almost entirely returns from newsstands, with some slight incidentals for office use, comp copies, etc. So, even though we get a clear idea of just how many newsstand copies were destroyed (or "destroyed" ), we have no idea at all what percentage of the original print run was Direct and what percentage was newsstand.

In any event, the total copies sold does give us a fair idea of what existed at the conclusion of retail sales in May-ish of 1988. Attrition rates vary with eras, but generally, books from 1988 would have been saved over tossed, so it's likely the survival rate to now is well over 50%.

When using SOOs, it should be understood that the issue the SOO is printed in, and the immediately preceding issue(s) is/are NOT covered by that SOO, because of the lag time in sales report data and editorial content. This is confirmed by the "date of filing", which in the case of #301's SOO was 10/30/87...and the last issue published before that date would have been issue #295 or #296.
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Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
over 200k issues.
spidey was popular with pull orders at the time. A lot out there. But it's getting on with age. so I think the age thing and I better get it now before prices increase more are the factors at play at the moment
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilesPaine
Soooooooo If thats total for twelve months we're looking at around 38,000 to 40,000 issues?? Or am I completely reading it incorrectly.

If its average you figure some sold more than others and you have to give a rough estimate.


You are reading it incorrectly. Those numbers refer to copies per issue, not for the entire year.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eee91
@shrewbeer - Docbrown seems to know more about this than I do, but I think it has to do with the date that the Statement of Ownership was filed. The one printed in ASM 301 is dated October 1987 - so BEFORE ASM 300 (May 1988). The one printed in ASM 315 is dated October 1988, so the ASM 315 one is the one with ASM 300 numbers.

@NilesPaine - Pretty sure that the number is monthly copies printed. So don't divide the number by 12.


ASM #300 would have been on sale in February...not May...of 1988. May is only the cover date, and the cover date is when news vendors would take the books OFF sale.

The copyright office lists a publication date of 1/12, but it would not have been for sale that soon. At the time, cover dates for Marvels were running 3 months after sale dates.
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Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
Also remember any new spidey fans are not going buy the whole run. It's hugely drunk number run. If they have the money it's issue 1. The keys and issues 100, 200. 300 ect.
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Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
I remember when ASM 300 came out. It sold out everywhere I can recall with many people recognizing its significance in terms of a cool new character and McFarlane art. I passed on it nonetheless, and when I looked for a copy about a week after it came out, none were to be found. Now I can't get an issue for a price I deem reasonable, just like many others.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
You get a good idea of when something became "hot" by reading market reports, written by retailers on the ground, from the time period. The OPG updates, CBG, hell, even Comics Values Monthly all gave insight into what was catching the collecting world's attention at a specific time.

For instance...New Mutants #87. The first mention of it in an Update was around the time of X-Tinction Agenda, fall-ish of 1990, and it's just a brief mention. The book itself had come out in January of 1990, and despite the exuberant memories of adolescents who are notorious for misremembering things, it wasn't an instantly hot book...it took some time.

In fact, the first exposure of many to Cable was very likely that X-Tinction Agenda crossover, since very few people, relatively speaking, were reading New Mutants...but that crossover lit the X-world on fire, and with Jim Lee on X-Men, a lot of people discovered Cable for the very first time.

Of course, 6 month after THAT, it was the hottest back issue on the planet.

The problem with memories is that they are almost always fuzzy, and clouded by personal perception. The great benefit of the market reports is that they were written at the time the events happened, and one can get a real sense of how things actually were, from the perspectives of dealers who dealt with these things every day.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
In those days, too, the newsstand copies were always 2-3 weeks later than the Direct copies...the same would be true for ASM #300. If the book had been a sellout at a comic shop, there would have been plenty on the newsstand to be had for the patient buyer.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
It's pretty safe to say there were 250,000 copies printed

75,000 newsstand editions
175,000 direct editions

Either way, a lot, is still a lot. We can all agree this was not a "rare book" it's just a super hot popular cover and a hot artist to boot. We all love us some Spider-man!
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Collector NilesPaine private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
In those days, too, the newsstand copies were always 2-3 weeks later than the Direct copies...the same would be true for ASM #300. If the book had been a sellout at a comic shop, there would have been plenty on the newsstand to be had for the patient buyer.


See Im a little too young to know about the newstand sales. Though of course I see them around. Its interesting to me too that some news stand versions go for more or less depending on book. For instance the 87 you're speaking of, the newstand has a more sun orange than the deep reddish orange and goes for a bit more from the what Ive seen. One of my favorite books. What's interesting to me is that second prints of some of these keys, 87, ASM 361, go for so much less despite STILL being a key.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user



Here's my newest 300, this time a newsstand edition, and not signed by Stan Lee. Might be a 9.4-9.6. I sold my CBCS graded one signed by Stan as soon as I had this one in my hot little hands!
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
It's pretty safe to say there were 250,000 copies printed

75,000 newsstand editions
175,000 direct editions

Either way, a lot, is still a lot. We can all agree this was not a "rare book" it's just a super hot popular cover and a hot artist to boot. We all love us some Spider-man!


It's even safer to say there were about 450,000 copies printed, since that's what the average for the year was.

Notice the difference: the average was 451k, but the issue nearest filing date...which would have been #309 or #310...was down to 412k. Interesting, no?

However, number printed is meaningless, since the number destroyed is such a big chunk of that (179k.) It's the number SOLD that is of the most value in determining extant copies.

I'm not sure how you arrive at 75k ns and 175k direct, but those numbers are as good as any. We just don't know, and Marvel has never released that info...ever...for ANY comic it has ever published.
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Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
It is all clear to me now. Personal consumer recollections cannot match so-called market reports. Got it.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
ok so i read the chart wrong i'm a little enhanced at the moment my bizzle

so of that 450,000 copies,
135,000 are newsstands
315,000 are direct editions

that is a SH1T TON of copies. woah brah
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