Need help verifying a Stan Lee, Joe Sinnott and Jack Kirby signature.21263
 Collector
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Darthh8r private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey all, I've been collecting comics on and off for a few years, and usually I am pretty careful when buying un-verified signed comics on eBay that I plan to get verified myself. So far, I have had one signed comic authenticated by CBCS (TMNT #4 signed by Eastman and Laird) that was purchased raw on Ebay, yet in this case, I think I may have made a foolish (or perhaps lucky) gamble on a "signed" Fantastic Four #86 by (as it stated in the original listing) Stan Lee, jack Kirby and Joe Sinnott. From a glance, the Sinnott looks fine, the Kirby I am 70/30 on since I have seen one or two close matches, but the Stan Lee still bothers me even til now. Also foolishly, instead of getting advice online like I am now, I sent it off to CBCS and I am almost sure that the Stan Lee may not get verified, even in the case that Kirby and Sinnott does, I have a bad feeling they will not authenticate it even if only one sig doesnt pass. Now, I know Stan's sig quality declined in his later years, and sometimes his sigs were unreadable or unrecognizeable, and I have also seem some reeeeeally questionably signed items that look worse than mine that have passed with CGC, but I still am not sure on this one on the cover. Some parts look fine, others dont. Would love your guys' opinion on these signatures. If its legit, this would make a very special addition to my collection, and just knowing anything in my collection isnt authentic, would drive me mad. Thanks!     |
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| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darthh8r You can get a signature review here: https://www.beckett-authentication.com/services/signature-review |
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| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darthh8r private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks for that! I believe BAs is the one who also does the sig authentication for CBCS. I really should have used this but will from now on. What is your personal opinion? |
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| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| They are the real deal. Go ahead and send that in. PS.. Welcome to the forum. |
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| Post 4 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darthh8r private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks, Nearmint67, I hope you're right. I should be getting them back from CBCS by December. | ||
| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nice! And good luck! My only apprehension would be the Stanle sig. I’m not saying I don’t think it’s real, but isnt Stan Lee hit or miss after a certain point due to the variations as he got older? |
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| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
 How do I know this? Because I've done it myself.
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
@Nearmint67 agreed. IMO, the Stan Lee sig should pass. I think it’s close enough to the one I had that passed, so that’s my reference.  |
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| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HulkSmash Yes. They did not verify one I had signed. I'm assuming CGC/JSA will see it for what it is though. Also OP, if one of those can't be verified, it's an expensive lesson. As CBCS says, "if one fails, they all fail". They'll stop the process but you will still pay for all 3, and no yellow label for any of them. I have a feeling that will change with JSA and PSA in the picture now, and we have options. Something like: Signed by Joe Sinnot and Stan Lee. "Jack Kirby" written on first page. Good luck. |
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| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would run it thru the Beckett signature review as someone posted earlier for $10- I would run that Joe Sinnott signature OR Jack Kirby- I believe those are fake- that Joe sig just looks like someone looking at his signature and “copying” certain characteristics- I would ONLY run one or the other… if either one gets “LIKELY TO PASS FULL AUTHENTICATION” then you’re good knowing at least one passes. Also if you run just one they will see the other and that will be influencing their decision (even though they won’t admit that lol). While the Stan Lee one actually looks pretty good they may deem it fake if inner ones fail (hard to say)- The “Joe” on Sinnott’s signature is too small (I’ve never seen that much size variation in his signature )!!!! Also a lot of the “Sinnott” just looks off. Jack Kirby also doesn’t look strong and I don’t think he signed in METALLIC SILVER- you can look up especially those really shiny thin markers weren’t a thing until after he had passed away (1995). |
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| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Here is one from my collection with all three (it is also passed by PSA and JSA). |
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| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Remember....if it doesn't pass verification...it doesn't mean it's fake...it just means they couldn't verify it. They're putting their "stamp" on it everytime a signature is verified so they have to be very sure. Not passing verification does not mean it's fake. | ||
| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
 I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
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sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
| First off they look real, Second the interior signatures were generally collected in person in front of the customer in the old days, especially when signing on the cover was not a thing. I would bet they are all real. | ||
| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
@sportshort it’s hard to sign something when you are dead… just saying. Jack Kirby passed away in 1995… I’ve never seen a metallic silver Jack Kirby ever before… he signed with black ball point pen most of the time. I have seen blue ballpoint pen as well less frequently. It also looks fake (so two strikes against it).  |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC They’re fake 🤣 Looks like “Josh Kirby” bahahaha |
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| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by radd76 Pentel has made paint pens since the '80s. Including silver. Doesn't look like a Sharpie signature either. Too inconsistent. |
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| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
 |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
 Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Don’t get me started with authentication… I’ve had Beckett deny the same autograph that Jsa authenticated. And I’ve had Jsa deny the same autograph that Beckett has authenticated. |
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| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
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It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A friend of mine was one of 3 people that were getting Stan Lee to sign books on the regular. They had an agreement that they had to spend 10,000.00 per month for Stan to sign with them. And toward the time before Stan passed, several of the books he signed that were witnessed by these guys, were all rejected. My friend said "I was standing right in front of him and signed 200 books for me" and several were still rejected. That had to hurt for the amount of cash he paid and them not get verified. Ouch... He still gets bent years later if someone brings it up... |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @multi007 that means you are batting 1.000 You only have a problem if both reject lol |
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| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nearmint67 If they were paying out that kind of money, then they should have had an authorized witness present during the signing. |
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| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson Agreed....with verification...you have to assume some won't pass....and Stan's last years of signatures were especially hard to pass verification. |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson That's the thing. They were the authorized witness!!!! Still some of them were rejected. Don't ask me what the flip happened. His signature was so bad in the last couple of weeks. I don't know what those greedy money hungry boys were thinking. Serves them right though. Should have left the man alone. |
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| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darthh8r private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by radd76 Surely there have been metallic or silver colored pens around since the 80/early 90s? it doesn't look to be from a sharpie, then you would 100% be right. But, I guess ill find out soon from BAS... |
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| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darthh8r private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sportshort Why can't I find just ONE other example of Jack Kirby signing in silver ink though? unless its one of those unique situations. Did comic artists sign in silver/gold pen (not sharpie) or other colors in the 80's or early 90's? |
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| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think the artists would have used whatever was handed to them to sign. | ||
| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nearmint67 That makes absolutely no sense. They either witnessed the signatures or they didn't. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I can't argue with there. I can give the guys number if you would like to chat with him and ask him why... |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nope. That's a can of worms best left to bigger birds. I know Stan's handler, Max, was forging signatures around the time of his death. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darthh8r Look. I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s- it’s not like dozens of companies producing snazzy markers… you had Sharpie and Sharpie and they were the ones pushing the limits not some knockoff- also there was no internet… not sure if you know but Walmarts weren’t “Super” if they had plain ol’ pens you were saying hooraaaaay- you didn’t walk down an aisle and the whole aisle is pens- you’re lucky to have a handful of pens lol- Beckett knows this - they may have been in diapers in the 80’s and early 90’s but they know this stuff. #2- if the guy that got these signed had a Time Machine and was that much about having a chrome silver marker (not even just the plain silver) on one sig why wouldn’t he have all three signed that way- #3- Joe Sinnott is your biggest problem (imo) …go look at his sigs… they are super consistent… AND for his sig to be so tiny AND Jack Kirby signature to be so tiny to me it looks like the person that faked these wrote similarly small. Weird that they signed that small and not like almost every Joe and Kirby sig out there- One thing back in 2020 right before covid broke out here I discussed with their head sig verifier (at CBCS headquarters) and he said a guy is getting REALLY good at faking Stan’s sig- there are getting to be really good fakes out there so I’m saying don’t try his but either Joe or Kirby- those to me are more the clear issue on this one. I hope you post your results once they are back from Beckett on here? |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Paint pens were around as early as 1983 so it's possible Jack Kirby signed with one. |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||