CGC Partner Points Out CGC/CBCS Value Differences20872
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The difference between purchase amount of a Newsstand graded 9.8 ($1,377) vs ungraded ($195.50) is $1,181 (604%). The highest CBCS 9.8 sale was $565 vs CGC 9.8 for $755, a difference of $190 (34%) While I won't argue the general point about pricing, I would point out that using the wrong methodology for calculating "difference" between two numbers exaggerates the percentages. The methodology that was chosen reflects a bias towards achieving a higher number and quite honestly, puts all of the supplied data in question. The percentage difference between two values is calculated by dividing the absolute value of the difference between two numbers by the average of those two numbers. Multiplying the result by 100 will yield the solution in percent, rather than decimal form. Using the methodology described above and the calculator in the link below, their stated percentage difference of 604% becomes 150% and the 34% stated above becomes 28.8%. https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/percent-difference-calculator.php |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When I sold a bunch of my books last summer, I came in pretty clearly below what I expected based on other recent sales. The phenomenon is confusing (and sad if you have CBCS books) but true. | ||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| IDK....you can cherry pick just about anything to "prove" just about anything I have this 8.5 in the current MCS auction I would be happy with $100- actually across my 8 items an average of $100 would be just fine by me - although more would be better  This is just sales at MCS and you can see all recent ones were CGC. In April someone paid $195 for a 9.0 but in May it was $285!!! If this was CGC vs CBCS would they say the CBCS got 30% less than the CGC?? Soooo much depends on the actual day/week of the auction Since no one reports on it I wonder if we scoured the interweb if there would be instances of CBCS going for more than CGC - bet we could find them!! also...just me..but in no world is 9.6 to 9.8 worth $1600 on this book!!!  |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 You can't get good wood on the ball every time.
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HotKeyComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CBCS needs to educate the community that they give out less 9.8s on average than CGC. I did a comparison a couple years ago on UF4 and CGC was giving out around double the % of 9.8s that CBCS was, the problem is that nobody really knows that because CBCS doesn't advertise it. a 9.8 from CBCS is harder to get and more reliable as a 9.8 grade imo and they completely ignore that in their advertising. My comparison video from 2021: clickable text edit: added link |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| But sellers want 9.8s, right? A 9.8 sells for higher prices than a 9.4 or 9.6 to those who buy the grade and not the book. | ||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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You can't get good wood on the ball every time.
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HotKeyComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 absolutely, as a seller you would absolutely want to go with the better chance of getting a 9.8, especially when it gets more money in most cases. And that is exactly why CBCS needs to spend the advertising money to educate the community on the differences. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So, it is not difficult to discern that a cgc partner has a vested interest, and conflict of interest, in pointing out price discrepancies on select sales. And, let's face it, when you have 10 times, or however many more graded examples of a specific issue, you are very likely to have the highest sold price. That said, three years ago, I started a thread dedicated to pointing out when a CBCS encased comic broke a record and sold at a level higher than any cgc slabbed comic had in that grade. Again, it is only natural for the company with the most grades to usually have the highest sold price. But, it is not a given that cgc will always sell for higher. I, for one, will typically pay higher online for a CBCS encased comic as I have seen too many cases whereby the cgc slab was over-graded. Here is the link to the old thread: New Highest Price in Grade |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 I've found that this applies mainly to Copper or Modern books. I mean, sure, everybody wants a 9.8, but I have found the higher priced Bronze and Silver books harder to move. I've had more luck with 9.0 to 9.6. I gues it depends on if you are looking for a slow dollar or a fast dime. To focus on your last part, I've often wondered if there are "collectors" out there who even look at the book. I think some of them would be satisfied with a stack of highest graded labels in plastic boxes. I remember someone at show once was looking at a graded book. They said, "That is a pretty book, too bad it's only a 9.4." It struck me odd. That's akin to saying, "That's a cute puppy. Too bad it isn't a pedigree." If you're in the market for either, why would you turn it down based on the opinion of some outside entity, especially if it tickles your fancy? |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
 No rust here...
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HotKeyComics Buying the grade and not the book would get you your hat handed to you if you bought this one. This is just one example of the over graded 9.8's coming out of the cgc camp. https://www.ebay.com/itm/315407938366 |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't want to brag, but cashiers are always checking me out.
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power_struggle55 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| cgc makes more mistakes, has bad cases. etc cbcs has less prestige I don't see why one is worth more than the other. if both have same grade, same edition, same everything....wouldn't the company that has a better track record be worth more. |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by power_struggle55 I would think so too. I think things will change down the road. |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by power_struggle55 CBCS hasn't always had the better track record. Their reputation on the CGC boards is the same as CGC's on this board. Also, since CGC has been around so much longer, and is so much bigger, they are considered the standard. People will pay more for the standard. The one they've heard of. It's just assumed that CGC is the better product since everyone knows them and owns some. The opinions of how much better CBCS might be doesn't mean a thing. To many CGC faithful, CBCS is just another name next to PGX. Of course there are outliers where CBCS book sells for more, or the same, but most of the time CGC will go for more. Hence the topic coming up as often as it does. I prefer the CBCS product but the more I think about the day I sell, the more I realize I need to keep using CGC. Unfortunately (because they offer the better product), CBCS's best chance to overcome all this is if CGC closes it's doors. Thankfully, they don't need to overcome it. They have their customers, and CGC has theirs. |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't want to brag, but cashiers are always checking me out.
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power_struggle55 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| when I hunt for slabbed, I seek cbcs for multiple reasons 1. all my graded are from them 2. I know a lot went into looking at the comic for everything. so I know they have better reasons to give a comic a 9.4 than a cgc 9.8 |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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sborock_ComicLink private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To be fair, at the beginning of CGC, Mark Haspel and I went to MANY top dealers and collectors with the same group of books and watched over the to make sure that the books would not get a touch of damage A total mix of comics from GA to 1998 and 9.8 to 0.5, as the grading standards were at that time in 1999. We then took and averaged, based on their grading to help us help our hobby. One big outfit in NY, we had to throw their grades out, as they saw this in a way to make more money by making the grading standard softer.! Disgusting!  We also had to throw out certain grades picked from others as well. Some people were too loose/hard on GA and visa-versa. We did not want to change grading; we were hoping to set standards based on major sellers and collectors in our community of wonderful hobbyists that most would feel very comfortable with! A great and honest friend of mine, because he only ever colleting GA, was taken out of the mix on SA or later, as he was grading the SA lower by too many points. He just did not know the printing/manufacturing defects of the high SA comics. He wasn't that shocked when I told him 6 months later. That said, almost all his GA grades were Where very close or spot on IMHO... We really tried to change the hobby for the better and, in many ways, I believe, made it both safer for the collector and seller. I am sorry to say, but it also made it a bit more for the worse. We did not have a crystal ball and so entered greed (JE anyone?) by bringing many investors into this comics/OA community that only care about 9.8's or better and some who just want major keys as an investment and, BTW...they are not hobby friendly. Sucks! Very hobby UN-friendly! We actually started programs and options that CGC have implemented over the last few years. See, competition is very good. That's part of the reason I put my reputation on the line starting CBCS, even though I was making better money at HA. I felt when I was running it with West, Ricketts and the other hobbyists, we could be the hobby's impartial choice. The first 3 years were fantastic until I got screwed. as well as many in the original crew who worked so hard to make CBCS fantastic and made Beckett want to buy us. I am sorry we let so many people down.  Both companies have problems, but if the grading is good, pick that comic as you go hunting! Buy the book, not the grade..... I hate monopolies and will love our hobby until my last breath, LOL! I am so sorry for the rant! Please forgive me.  WOW! Pete Townshend's Empty Glass just came on! Just a 1/2 hour after my birthday! Late, but COOL! Have a most wonderful night, all!  "That was all I had to say, and It's alright I will get by We will get by We will get by We will get by We will survive!" |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thank you for sharing that Steve. Always interesting to hear your stories. And happy belated birthday. |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
@sborock_ComicLink -  |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sborock_ComicLink happy birthday! | ||
| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sborock_ComicLink - Happy B-day! Regarding CGC vs CBCS: “THE GRASS AIN’T GREENER, THE WINE AIN’T SWEETER, EITHER SIDE OF THE HILL” |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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No rust here...
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sborock_ComicLink Happy B-Day Hippie... | ||
| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Happy belated birthday, @sborock_ComicLink. | ||
| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Happy belated bday. @sborock_ComicLink |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Happy Birthday brother and many more to come. | ||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| a very, very small data sample from the CBCS only sale underway at MCS My first 5 books have finalized....lets look at the results (all CBCS of course!) Forever People #1 in 8.5 Final sale price $165 GPA 12 mth $187 GPA 90 day $166.92 I would say this sale was inline with the market despite the last GPA sale being $180 Giant Size Spider-Man #4 7.5 witnessed Final $73 GPA 12 $75 GPA 90 $100 while on par for market I do feel let down as I was hoping for a bit of a bump for the signature (Conway) Mister Miracle #1 6.5 Final $100 GPA 12 $94.52 GPA 90 $90 beat market prices (12 or 90!) by a few bucks! Jimmy Olsen #134 5.0 Final $115 GPA 12 $123.51 GPA 90 $101.62 another good result?? - beat 90 average by $13 but missed 1 year average by $9....seems like the trend is downward - last GPA sale was $107.6 (which this CBCS book also beat) Jimmy Olsen #135 8.5 Final $54 No GPA data for 12 month or 90 day Last GPA sale was 2021 $149.99....last MCS sale was $95 (one of my other 8.5 copies) also 2021 I would call this a fail....would have thought final value to be closer to the $90 range Net result - a mix?? missed total GPA (depending which you care to look at 12mth or 90 day by book) FMV by $16.62 A good result though and in line with what I was expecting going into the auction! 3 more books to finalize in a few days - lets see where they land!!! (some are very far away at the moment  ) |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
 I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KatKomics Can we really compare anything to 2021 prices, though? | ||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by James42 Exactly. Even a key like GSX #1 in 9.8 hit $72,000 in 2021. Now, the last sale in 9.8 was $24,000. |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KatKomics need to correct the issue numbers for JO. Says 34 and 34. I’m guessing you mean 134 and 135? When auctions on commonly available books are ending close to 90 day average, as yours did, I typically consider that to be a good result. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia whoops!! 134 and 135 it is!! and agreed! coming in and around the GPA is a win...now...if this was a mixed auction would the CBCS books get the same as the CGC - who knows! but on this small data set I would say CBCS is netting the same FMV as CGC (since GPA is only CGC) Are these CBCS getting FMV because it is CBCS buyers looking for CBCS books...heaven forbid are there CGC buyers looking at CGC books and without a CGC option to bid on they end up at FMV?? Maybe the takeaway is I should only sell in CBCS only auctions??? MCS - make this type of auction happen more than just for a 10th anniversary!! |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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" . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Where did Xmen 1 land? | ||
| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics If your experience holds up in general, I think it's worthy of analysis from a "social behavior" standpoint. I was recently reading that quite possibly the most compelling form of persuasion is "seeing that other people in your peer group are doing it". Auction results probably highlight this behavior in a very tangible way. Perhaps it's a grouping of CBCS friendly buyers. I think also there is the psychological effect from seeing a very large grouping of CBCS books in one selling venue. Establishing confidence that the service has been used quite extensively by other collectors. As opposed to a mixed auction where a small spattering of CBCS books are mixed in with a large grouping of CGC books. Enforcing the opposite conclusion in a buyer's mind. I would also consider the credibility that MCS lends to the CBCS brand by hosting such an auction. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbayMafia I have a feeling the moderns are going to let me down....maybe I'll be wrong? |
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| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||