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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
What is a Pedigree comic?

A pedigree is a comic that came from a well preserved and extensively documented vintage collection. These collections are well known within the comic collecting hobby and recognized as being significant for various reasons. Please send with the comic, any certificates or paperwork & it will be sent back to you with your submission. A comic will only receive a pedigree designation if CBCS's pedigree experts can positively ascertain its authenticity.

Pedigrees recognized by CBCS.

Allentown
Aurora
Bethlehem
Big Apple
Boston
Bowling Green
Cape Cod
Carson City
Central Valley
Chicago
Comi-Kazi
Cookeville
Cosmic Aeroplane
Crowley
Curator
Davis Crippen "D"
Denver
Don Donahue File Copy
Don & Maggie Thompson
Don Rosa
Edgar Church/Mile High
Eldon
File Copy
Gaines File Copy
Green River
Haight-Ashbury
Hap Langlie
Hawkeye pedigree
John G. Fantucchio
Kansas City
Larson
Lost Valley
Mass.
Mohawk Valley
New Hampshire
Northford
Northland
Nova Scotia
Oakland
Ohio
Okajima
Pacific Coast
Palo Alto
Pennsylvania
Recil Macon
River City
Rockford
Rocky Mountain
Salida
San Francisco
Savannah
Spokane
Suscha News
Twilight
Twin Cities
Vancouver
Western Penn
White Mountain
Windy City
Winnipeg
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You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O if a CGC book with a pedigree designation on the label is sent to CBCS for reslabbing (say for signature verification) will the CGC label designation be evidence enough that the book is from the pedigree?

Thanks!
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@DWeeB1967 yes. As long as the CGC case is intact ... and hasn't been tampered with ... CBCS will honor the Pedigree designation.
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You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right? DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O I figured but that's good to know.
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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
The list is a little short as it is missing.

Winnipeg




And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain




I believe the white mountain collection was one of the first recognized silver age pedigrees.
And I believe in the early 90s the Amazing fantasy 15 from the pedigree collection sold for $40k.

Big money back then when a NM copy in the over street I think was listed around the $10-$15k,vor possibly $20k. I'm just going on memory now.
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
I think this is important Pedigree information. I'm not certain on its accuracy but it's from the website below.

THE THREE CRITERIA FOR A PEDIGREED
COMIC BOOK COLLECTION


1. QUALITY
2. ORIGIN
3. COMPLETENESS

Comic book collections turn up every day; some are large, some small, some are high grade, while others are not. Out of thousands of accumulations, what exactly makes a collection so special that CGC calls it a pedigree? There are three criteria that are expected for such a designation; quality, origin and completeness.

1) QUALITY
A pedigreed collection must primarily consist of high grade comic books.

The most evident aspect of a pedigreed collection is the condition of its comic books, which should be exceptional. The majority of the Silver Age collections discovered are usually in average or low grade condition from handling and poor storage conditions. Golden Age collections are particularly scarce because so many comics were destroyed in paper drives or thrown out during that time period, making high grade copies even more extraordinary.

There is no set rule as to what the minimum grade average must be for a pedigree collection, but generally speaking, Silver Age collections are held to a higher standard because they are more plentiful, particularly after 1964. Typically Golden Age pedigrees average 8.0 or higher, while Silver Age pedigrees average 9.0 or higher for pre '65 books, and 9.4 or higher for books '65 to present.

It is important to note that not every copy in a pedigree collection may be in exceptional condition, which is especially true for very large accumulations like Mile High, Crippen and Bethlehem. Inevitably an occasional issue may have suffered structural damage from printing or mishandling. Even so, these lower grade copies should still share the same aesthetic qualities as their high grade counterparts, but be few in number.

Exceptional page quality, while a significant factor in grading and value, is not necessarily a determining factor in a pedigree collection. While most pedigree collections exhibit white or off-white to white pages, some are more off-white on average, or even cream to off-white. Any collections averaging lower than cream to off-white, or even brittle, would not be considered for pedigree status.

2) ORIGIN
A pedigreed collection must have been accumulated during the time the comics were released on the newsstand.

This is a critical factor because a big part of a pedigree's appeal is their homogenous quality; the books have aged together in the same environment, creating a uniform "feel" that does not exist for collections assembled from various sources.

Most of these fantastic collections were traditionally assembled by an adolescent who bought their comics for entertainment, and then inadvertently saved them. In a handful of cases the collector was an adult, such as Edgar Church, and their reason for collecting was more than entertainment. Even though these collectors likely never envisioned comics as a long-term investment, their thoroughness and attention to detail are traits inherent in today's comic collector.

It is important to remember that once a collection is discovered, broken up and sold, the homogenous aging process ceases. Even though optimum storage techniques are advocated throughout the hobby, variances in humidity, temperature, light and exposure to air over time can lead to visible inconsistencies in pedigrees' uniformity. This is particularly true for page quality, an important distinction of pedigree collections, and smell, one way to identify certain pedigrees like Big Apple, Hawkeye and Mile High. The oldest pedigrees like the Cosmic Aeroplane and Kansas City collections, which have now been broken up longer than they were together, may possibly exhibit a lower average page quality today than they would have upon discovery nearly 50 years ago.

3) COMPLETENESS
A pedigreed collection must represent a significant portion of a particular genre, company, period, classic character, or must contain a substantial number of key or rare issues.

For Silver Age pedigree collections, completeness is easy to define. They usually contain full runs of Marvel or DC (or both) that should include a majority of the key issues. Because post-1964 comics are more common in high grade, the presence of these early issues in exceptional condition is a big factor in distinguishing Silver Age pedigrees from average collections.

The definition for completeness among Golden Age collections is more broad. Nearly 20,000 different comic books were published between 1933 and 1955, covering a vast number of characters, companies and genres. The Mile High collection contained the majority of these comics, and would clearly be considered the most complete of all Golden Age pedigrees. Crippen would be the second most complete, but most Golden Age pedigrees only cover select areas of this immense landscape.

Completeness may sometimes refer to a specific publisher or genre; the Gaines pedigree only contained EC comics, while the Crowley collection was mostly Fawcett published comics. The collector of the New Hampshires bought mainly westerns, and the Northford collector focused on horror and science fiction. Rarity can also be a factor, especially for '30s collections like Lost Valley and Billy Wright.

For the smallest collections, pedigree is achieved by the presence of key issues. The Allentown pedigree (135 issues) and the Denver pedigree (153 issues) both contained an amazing array of keys; the Allentown collection bore the best copies of Detective #27 and Captain America #1 in existence, two of the most important and valuable comics in the world.

clickable text
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No rust here... Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross
The list is a little short as it is missing.

Winnipeg




And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain




I believe the white mountain collection was one of the first recognized silver age pedigrees.
And I believe in the early 90s the Amazing fantasy 15 from the pedigree collection sold for $40k.

Big money back then when a NM copy in the over street I think was listed around the $10-$15k,vor possibly $20k. I'm just going on memory now.


The White Mountain books are some of the nicest I've seen. Along side of the Boston Collection.
Both have some white white white pages.

I REALLY wish that CBCS would do a pedigree label like cgc did.
I just sent 4 White Mountain books to cgc only because of that nice dark bronze colored label.
Oh, and the 4 books are the first and only foreign comics to be graded from a pedigree collection, as per my conversation with Matt Nelson (President of cgc) earlier today.
I hope to have them back in a week or two. Very excited about these books.
They are;
Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane # 78
Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane # 76
Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen # 108
World's Finest Comics # 169





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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
@Nearmint67 there are the Australian frew Phantom comics that were graded over 15 years ago from the Lee Falk collection.
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No rust here... Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross
@Nearmint67 there are the Australian frew Phantom comics that were graded over 15 years ago from the Lee Falk collection.

Ok, Matt didn't mention that. Rare company...
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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross


And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain


I would disagree there. The Curator books are probably the highest ranking Pedigree, in my opinion.

Plus, I think it's important to note that a lot of theses pedigrees were recognized and in existence long before the cgc ever came into being.
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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross


And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain


I would disagree there. The Curator books are probably the highest ranking Pedigree, in my opinion.

Plus, I think it's important to note that a lot theses pedigrees were recognized and in existence long before the cgc ever came into being.


When did the curator copies come to market?

White mountain I believe was the first silver age pedigree recognized by the collecting community.
Nuff said!
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross
The list is a little short as it is missing.

Winnipeg




And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain




I believe the white mountain collection was one of the first recognized silver age pedigrees.
And I believe in the early 90s the Amazing fantasy 15 from the pedigree collection sold for $40k.

Big money back then when a NM copy in the over street I think was listed around the $10-$15k,vor possibly $20k. I'm just going on memory now.


The copy/paste list was cut a bit short. LOL Thanks for catching that!!!
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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross


And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain


I would disagree there. The Curator books are probably the highest ranking Pedigree, in my opinion.

Plus, I think it's important to note that a lot theses pedigrees were recognized and in existence long before the cgc ever came into being.


When did the curator copies come to market?

White mountain I believe was the first silver age pedigree recognized by the collecting community.
Nuff said!

In the 90s.

The White Mountains may have come to market first, but it's hard to beat a Curator book, especially if you prefer a book with no scribble on it.
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No rust here... Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
The White Mountains may have come to market first, but it's hard to beat a Curator book, especially if you prefer a book with no scribble on it.


Have you had a Boston copy before?
Some amazing books. With no scribble either lol.....
Post 14 IP   flag post
Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross


And the most important silver age pedigree.

White Mountain


I would disagree there. The Curator books are probably the highest ranking Pedigree, in my opinion.

Plus, I think it's important to note that a lot theses pedigrees were recognized and in existence long before the cgc ever came into being.


When did the curator copies come to market?

White mountain I believe was the first silver age pedigree recognized by the collecting community.
Nuff said!

In the 90s.

The White Mountains may have come to market first, but it's hard to beat a Curator book, especially if you prefer a book with no scribble on it.


I understand the Curator copies grade higher.
My point was White mountain is the most important in my view being the first recognized silver age pedigree.
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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearmint67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
The White Mountains may have come to market first, but it's hard to beat a Curator book, especially if you prefer a book with no scribble on it.


Have you had a Boston copy before?
Some amazing books. With no scribble either lol.....

Yes, I agree. At one point, I owned the Boston run of the Nick Fury Strange Tales books.
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Collector Sagii private msg quote post Address this user
At the office but peeking in and enjoying the chat and pics everyone!
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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearmint67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
The White Mountains may have come to market first, but it's hard to beat a Curator book, especially if you prefer a book with no scribble on it.


Have you had a Boston copy before?
Some amazing books. With no scribble either lol.....


Maybe a date stamp though?


Post 18 IP   flag post
Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearmint67
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross
@Nearmint67 there are the Australian frew Phantom comics that were graded over 15 years ago from the Lee Falk collection.

Ok, Matt didn't mention that. Rare company...


Matt should of told you, from memory it was Matt who picked up the collection off the Falk family and took them over to CGC as my friend who bought the collection did this so there was no way the books would be shipped to Australia then shipped to CGC and then not given the Falk collection label as there maybe doubt about the books provenance as he owned a comic book store at the time.

Maybe he didn't mention it as I think the label states 'From the estate of Lee Falk'

I could be wrong about the CGC label.

And that rare comic book publisher I saw a copy of Phantom in the news stand back in Australia in 2019 and the issue was up to the numbers 1800s. They publish twice a month and have been doing it for decades.
Years ago they would bundle up a few months of issues and post them to Lee Falk. Most of the Manila envelopes were never opened.
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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
I do like the Boston books I have.




And they were my favorite until I thought the twin cities books were just as nice.


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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
I'm an old fart. I'm not sure how I cotton to some of these new fangled pedigrees.
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I’m not an ant. I’m a rootin tootin Hornet! Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Pedigrees lol
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No rust here... Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
I'm an old fart. I'm not sure how I cotton to some of these new fangled pedigrees.


That's funny...
As an old fart, I can understand...

@southerncross Very nice copies!

@southerncross I had a bit of a hard time getting Matt to approve the provenance.
These German editions have to well known stamped date on the upper right corner of the splash page. But there is also a mysterious check mark next to the date stamp.

So I had to get some in-depth background on Ken Neily from his family member that inherited the books.
Ken was stationed in Germany in 68' and would ship books and other items back to the states to keep his comic collecting consistent without having gaps. He also had some French comics.
But after providing the information that was shared with me, there was no doubt that the books are indeed White Mountains.
These will definitely be the first foreign editions graded from this collection.
They grade out at 8.5 White pages except LL # 76 is a 8.0 off white-white pages.
Very pleased with the grades.
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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
@Nearmint67 That's pretty good grades as they were shipped back to the states in the 60s. No comic bags or backing boards.
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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Only pedigree within my collection




2 more - but collections rather than pedigree (Toledo / PA Dutch)




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PEDIGREED... Again! martymann private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O Very interesting and informative thread...thanks for starting.

Marty
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@martymann the thanks actually goes to @sagii for starting a thread asking for a pinned pedigree thread and to all the forum members that spoke up on that thread.
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Collector Sagii private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O 🍻
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@Sagii 🍻
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Please continue to ignore anything I post. southerncross private msg quote post Address this user

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