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Grading Help NeededQuestions

Puddling PSA12318

Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
I know we have quite a few newcomers who have joined our forum and I thought I'd share this as an educational thread and psa. These pictures were shared in the Facebook group, CBCS Comic Collectors Club. I got permission from the original poster to share them. I knew I had seen this a few times but could not remember what it was called, but then a friend who has more knowledge than I have clued me in.

Some CGC inner wells (and only CGC inner wells as far as I know) can cause a circular indentation on the back cover. This is called "puddling". It doesn't seem to cause permanent damage and the books can be successfully pressed by a professional presser.

The comic pictured here has more damage to the book, and the exact cause is not certain at this time. However, the damage was alleged to not have been there when the book was encapsulated. To be clear, I am only referring to the circular damage on the back cover.

The original poster says that half of his collection has these rings to some extent, this one being the most severe. He mentions not wanting to open all 40 slabs, so I'm not sure if he has 40 total slabs or 40 damaged slabs. Regardless, puddling seems to be a problem for the last 15 years or so.

I don't know if anyone knows the exact cause of this, but it is theorized it is caused by the process of encapsulating the comic. The damage is done by the inner well of the case.

I'm not an expert on this, so if I am wrong on some point, I apologize. If you have experienced this or know more about it, please contribute to this thread. Like I stated, I want this to be educational and perhaps like a psa for comic collectors.











Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector crystalphoto private msg quote post Address this user
Jesse, you got my curiosity up... any more photos?
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user
Yes I have a cgc book I bought with the same thing on the back. Also a buddy of mine also had one but he had it regraded by CBCS. His had actually turn dark gray in color almost like it was cause from heat or something but no damage to the case. It was a CGC 9.6 came back after press a 9.4. So I’d say it had a little damage from it.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user
Interesting. Thanks @Jesse_O

I feel that the value of CBCS slabs has just increased 😉
Post 4 IP   flag post
Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
.
Dang! That ain’t good.

Looks like an older label. I wonder if it’s been remedied on the newer slabs.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
https://the-comic-book-forum.boards.net/thread/924/cgc-puddling

More pix of the effect.
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
so..did they solve the cosmetic issue of newton rings by introducing a potentially book damaging issue with puddling??

I was just thinking of sending some books to them....oh well...back in the box they go
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
I thought sticking to older CGC slabs would mean more accurate grading. I noticed this a few days ago from a recent purchase but I wasnt sure what the hell it was.





Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
@KatKomics

Apparently this has been an off and on issue from before the oil slicks
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
It's been around for years.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Dog years, even.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks everyone for chiming in, I got busy for a bit.

@crystalphoto the link that @Bronte provided shows some excellent examples.

@CaptainCanuck apparently not. However, I haven't seen examples of this occuring in the newest generation of CGC cases. I'm thinking that time may play a factor in this. I can't imagine people missing the damage if it came straight from CGC that way. And from my limited research, it is thought to occur as a result of the actual slabbing process and can occur in any style inner well.

@KatKomics as it has been stated, this is not new. It has been going on for years.

@flanders wow!!! That would suck. If I were you, I'd seriously think about cracking it out and getting it pressed at the very least. If the pictures I shared are any indication, and the theories I've seen are correct, it could get worse with time.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Is this the creep engine or something different?
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Different.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
I believe it is a manufacturing defect in the inner well.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
It comes straight from the cgc that way. Most people don't notice it since it's on the back.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
It looks like heat induced to me.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
It comes straight from the cgc that way. Most people don't notice it since it's on the back.


That really does surprise me!! Given the OCD nature of a LOT of collectors, I figured people would just naturally check out the whole slab. I know I do. Maybe I'm more OCD than I realize. LOL

However, that is good news. If people look carefully at their CGC submissions, they will be able to tell right away.

Also, apparently this is an issue in the new generation cases as well.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
So....let me get this straight. CGC is industry leader and the best hands down because they offer...newton rings, puddling, creep engine but hey! hey! look over here we have characters on our lables??
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKomics
So....let me get this straight. CGC is industry leader and the best hands down because they offer...newton rings, puddling, creep engine but hey! hey! look over here we have characters on our lables??


Mercedes Benz and BMW are also very popular and expensive but they are some of the most unreliable vehicles in the market. Good marketing goes a long way.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Whew, From the thread title I thought Puddling was going to be some new stupid thing teenagers are doing to hurt themselves on Youtube.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbaySeller
Whew, From the thread title I thought Puddling was going to be some new stupid thing teenagers are doing to hurt themselves on Youtube.


At first I thought it was a rom com (public showing of affection) not horror....
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector mattness private msg quote post Address this user
If anyone is interested here is an old CBCS forum thread on puddling. https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/2995/page/1/now-this-cgc-case-is-questionable/
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
@EbaySeller it is; they keep sending perfectly good books to CGC.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
This is actually quite shocking. The "#1" company in grading certainly has a list of issues to fix.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Gonna have to have a closer look at some of my CGC books
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Great now I have to check all my comics for puddling and I don't even own a peeing poodle...yikes
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O I'll just add this to my reasons not to use CGC when it comes to my personal collection, alongside how sexy my comics would look in the new CBCS slabs.

But honestly... I'll add this to the other reasons why I try to avoid the need to seek out CGC graded 9.8s.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Beaten by boat oars Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
That's unfortunate. I wonder if puddling is included in the $12.50 I spent to renew my CGC account.
Post 29 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
The newer slabs show less issues of puddling.

As an FYI this was first reported on at least 7-8 years ago, so it is not new news. Reason I am so sure is I was the one who brought it to the attention of the CGC boards.
Post 30 IP   flag post
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