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CBCS launches Census/Graded Population Report11814

Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by kon_jelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself


I'm guessing the same thing that happens for the CGC comics that were converted over to CBCS - nothing. It's not really possible for the original grading company to keep tabs on it once it leaves the building.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveinthecity
Quote:
Originally Posted by kon_jelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveinthecity
Quote:
Originally Posted by kon_jelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself

I'm guessing the same thing that happens for the CGC comics that were converted over to CBCS - nothing. It's not really possible for the original grading company to keep tabs on it once it leaves the building.
As for CGC, if you crack a book, just send in the label and it will be removed from the census. Not sure if CBCS will follow suit.


I know that CBCS will send the CGC labels back to the CGC. I've had books removed off their census back in 2016ish. I don't know the CGC would extend that same courtesy to CBCS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano0521
I have cracked several books from CGC, sent in the labels, not removed from their census. I stopped doing it. No hope for that to be done right.


I'm guessing the same thing that happens for the CGC comics that were converted over to CBCS - nothing. It's not really possible for the original grading company to keep tabs on it once it leaves the building.
As for CGC, if you crack a book, just send in the label and it will be removed from the census. Not sure if CBCS will follow suit.


Borock covered this topic like a month ago - post 43 https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11609/page/2/cbcs-questions-concerns/
Post 76 IP   flag post
Collector SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
It's so cool that you can see the grader notes when looking up a book. Congrats on getting this up and running.


Wow, you get all the books that they have graded! Beyond nice!

I wonder about the information on some books that cannot be found when looking for the graded comic serial number?
Post 77 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
It's so cool that you can see the grader notes when looking up a book. Congrats on getting this up and running.


Where do you find the graders notes without having to copy paste the invoice #'s? Is there a hyperlink to notes right from the census?
Post 78 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
nevermind...I see it now....looking at the census on a phone is not the best way.
Post 79 IP   flag post
DUD OR STUD Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
nevermind...I see it now....looking at the census on a phone is not the best way.


Yeah, I was looking at it on the desktop while "working". The phone was a little unwieldy to look at the census with.
Post 80 IP   flag post


COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@spaulus Do/Will Slab-Only books get added to the census? It looks like there is currently a spot for Original Art books, which are also ungraded.

Post 81 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by kon_jelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself


I'm guessing the same thing that happens for the CGC comics that were converted over to CBCS - nothing. It's not really possible for the original grading company to keep tabs on it once it leaves the building.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveinthecity
Quote:
Originally Posted by kon_jelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveinthecity
Quote:
Originally Posted by kon_jelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself

I'm guessing the same thing that happens for the CGC comics that were converted over to CBCS - nothing. It's not really possible for the original grading company to keep tabs on it once it leaves the building.
As for CGC, if you crack a book, just send in the label and it will be removed from the census. Not sure if CBCS will follow suit.


I know that CBCS will send the CGC labels back to the CGC. I've had books removed off their census back in 2016ish. I don't know the CGC would extend that same courtesy to CBCS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano0521
I have cracked several books from CGC, sent in the labels, not removed from their census. I stopped doing it. No hope for that to be done right.


I'm guessing the same thing that happens for the CGC comics that were converted over to CBCS - nothing. It's not really possible for the original grading company to keep tabs on it once it leaves the building.
As for CGC, if you crack a book, just send in the label and it will be removed from the census. Not sure if CBCS will follow suit.


Borock covered this topic like a month ago - post 43 https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11609/page/2/cbcs-questions-concerns/


I didn’t pursue the topic further as Steve addressed it clearly and ...at that time... we had no census, so the discussion was moot and based purely on a hypothetical situation. As the hypothetical is now reality we’re now in A Tale of Two Census territory, with apologies to the late Charles Dickens.

My excitement over the new census is tempered by concern that any census ...to be accurate... has to acknowledge graded books from it’s counterpart as part of a collective whole. Since the CGC freely makes their census numbers available that information shouldn’t be proprietary work product, but not being a civil litigation attorney ...nor having played one on TV... this is a grey area.

It seems to me that the CGC’s grade numbers or at least the approximated totals could be accounted for in some manner on the CBCS Census as a survey of uniquely identified issues in the market. Maybe this isn’t possible due to an insurmountable schism between grading companies, but it is relevant to the marketplace and an area where lack of accurate information could potentially cause harm.

Occasionally I’ve cautioned folks on the other board who take their Census numbers too literally that the CGC Census could be off by as much as 20% just from resubmitting cracked out raw books without labels.

Some folks believe this, others don’t, but given the conversations I’ve had over the years with dealers close enough to the situation to know what’s going on, books have been cracked out and resubmitted as raw without labels to sidestep the possibility of graders second guessing earlier work. In those instances, double census entries would occur unless the owner made a point of bringing it to the attention of the CGC’s management retrospectively.

BTW, none of this criticism is levied at CBCS as they’re the straight shooters here. Obviously Steve made an honest effort to keep communication channels open and continues striving to provide information that can be trusted. It’s just frustrating for collectors trying to gauge market accuracy that both major services can’t find common ground in the crack, press and resubmit era.

.
Post 82 IP   flag post
Collector cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user
No company census CAN include data from any other company. If anyone wants that, they’d better do it themselves. Anyone should be able to create an spp thst can go into each census and pull out the data for a title...but the creator had better get permission, first. But ALSO, there needs to be census data from the other companies thst grade books...no matter how reliable the grading. You want to get a better judge of rarities at all or in specific grades? You also need to some have an addendum for raw books from sales/listings on every sales page, too. It’s not really possible to do this.
Post 83 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano0521
No company census CAN include data from any other company. If anyone wants that, they’d better do it themselves. Anyone should be able to create an spp thst can go into each census and pull out the data for a title...but the creator had better get permission, first. But ALSO, there needs to be census data from the other companies thst grade books...no matter how reliable the grading. You want to get a better judge of rarities at all or in specific grades? You also need to some have an addendum for raw books from sales/listings on every sales page, too. It’s not really possible to do this.


A separate census data tracking company? Well, that's an interesting idea. No idea how this could be achieved, but accurately estimating the numbers and grades of comics in the marketplace is important to many collectors. Comic books are independently published and the actual grades are in the public domain. Only the methods for making decisions ...which is work product... can reasonably be described as proprietary information.

So, how is accurate census data for other high value graded collectibles (coins, baseball cards, stamps, etc.) procured? I'm just curious. There should be some way to double check and cross reference grades more broadly, but maybe not. Discrepancy may just be a problem inherent in the crack-out, press and resubmit collecting culture we have to live with, although it is a thought provoking dilemma.

Anyway, whether this situation can be improved upon at some future date or not, I'm extremely happy to see the CBCS Census up and running!
Post 84 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Having given this a bit more thought I’ve come up with an idea that might be worth mulling over: a SCARCITY INDEX column. Given the complexity of cross referencing two separate census and the difficulty of providing information without stepping into issues of privately held data this could be assist collectors and investors efforts to gauge the relative scarcity of books.

A scarcity index column would simply project a best guess approximation of books in the marketplace, both encapsulated and raw. The OSG has noted raw book scarcity for decades whenever questions around number of existing copies arose.

For instance, CBCS could establish it’s own informed criteria for books where less than “X” number presumed copies thought to exist get a rare designation. The next level tier would be less than “X” number presumed copies thought to exist are scarce, and finally less than “X” number presumed copies are considered uncommon.

The “X” number would be arbitrarily decided based on the combined professional expertise of folks like Steve Borock and West Stephan. It shouldn’t take a huge amount of time to establish the scarcity index because the vast majority of books ...and I’m thinking of GA here... are common enough to satisfy market demand without any special notation.

For common books a blank or dash could be placed in the column. Where would common start? Probably at around 100 or more copies for GA, but that’s just my best guess. Others may have a different metric. Rarity in absolute terms is a changing dynamic subject to market demand.

Opinions? Please share thoughts and constructive criticism on this idea. It may be more complicated in practical application than I’ve considered.
.
Post 85 IP   flag post
Collector cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user
Only problem i see is Rarity cannot be determined by slab census at all. Danger Trail 3 is supposed to be rarest DC book of 1950s, yet it has the most CGC slabbed copies in that series. Slab census only tells you how many slabbed...
Post 86 IP   flag post
Collector rtdcomics private msg quote post Address this user
Great tool. Really interesting to look at and even better when you find that you have the only CBCS graded issues of a particular comic (CBCS 9'8 Joker Year of the Villain Jock B&W signed)

Only downside i found was the search engine is 'too specific'

I'm searching for Highlander The American Dream for example.

I typed Highlander first - only found 'Highlander' issues without additional title text

Then Highlander The American Dream - No results

Finally Highlander: The American Dream - found.

Never been a fan of search engines (my own company included) where you have to be 100% accurate with a title.

I'll end by repeating that I am really pleased and grateful of this new function. Great addition to the hobby.
Post 87 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I got a new book in from MCS today and was looking for it in the census....books is Lois Lane 21 from the original title Superman's girlfriend Lois lane...when I type it into the search there are two options..one being for something that shows a few copies graded, the other for only my book....I am confused which is which or what I am seeing. I had first guessed an annual but number 21? lois Lane only had two annuals.Any thoughts or can anyone confirm what I am seeing?
Post 88 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
Do you have the serial number?
Post 89 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
yes,, here it is Bronte


1CB9651-030
Post 90 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
I only find one in the census.


Post 91 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
This is the one linked to my search above.


Post 92 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I went from typing in the title..one listing lists the entire run of the comic, the other only issues 21 and 81?
Post 93 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
I just typed in "Superman's g" and selected the title from the dropdown, typed in "21" in the issue space and hit search.
Post 94 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I did that as well Jesse but found two possible listings for Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane. One only lists my recent buy under issue 21 and an issue 81 while the other seems to list all the issues in the title. Thatjis doing the initial search without an issue number
Post 95 IP   flag post
Collector robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
I did that as well Jesse but found two possible listings for Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane. One only lists my recent buy under issue 21 and an issue 81 while the other seems to list all the issues in the title. Thatjis doing the initial search without an issue number




The problem is that most of the series is listed under the title “Superman’s Girlfriend Lois Lane”, but those other two issues in the series are listed under the title “Superman’s Girlfriend, Lois Lane” (with a comma).
Post 96 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@robertofredrico nailed it!!! My tablets' keyboard blocked the second listing. Someone needs to do a "report a problem" on this.
@Darkseid_of_town since it's your book, do you want to take care of letting them know there are two titles listed?


Post 97 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Sure Jesse n I will.sens it in once I get home tonight
Post 98 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
Stupid question.

Is there a default way to search a serial number of a CBCS book? For example. I was looking at a book to possibly purchase from ebay, but could not do a search. Since the census came out, I was able to find the book and noticed it was missing 2 zeros in the beginning. Adding the 2 digits omitted from label allowed the search to complete.

On @Darkseid_of_town's book, I cant do a search on his number either. (Copy paste and adding 2 zeros to beginning didnt yield result.)

Is there a specific syntax that needs to be observed? A dash? A space?
Post 99 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@Bronte no there is no simple solution. However, in Darkseid's case, the number comes up in the search.





I believe if you enter that number, you can get the graders notes. There probably is a pattern to the first two digits, but I have no clue what that is.

Edit - the label is case sensitive!!!
Post 100 IP   flag post
Collector EbaySeller private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
what about all the cbcs comics that were converted over to cgc? I have done a lot of them myself


Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_Zero


Post 101 IP   flag post
Collector Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O

Thank you for your response. I'm glad it's not just me. Case sensitive? I dont think I would have thought of that.

On a side note, they should put a search link of the serial numbers on the same page as census to have all the tools in the same place.
Post 102 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
Stupid question.

Is there a default way to search a serial number of a CBCS book? For example. I was looking at a book to possibly purchase from ebay, but could not do a search. Since the census came out, I was able to find the book and noticed it was missing 2 zeros in the beginning. Adding the 2 digits omitted from label allowed the search to complete.

On @Darkseid_of_town's book, I cant do a search on his number either. (Copy paste and adding 2 zeros to beginning didnt yield result.)

Is there a specific syntax that needs to be observed? A dash? A space?



CBCS has changed it's invoicing system a couple of times but it's been mostly stable for a few years now.

The first two digits are the last two digits of the year the invoice was created. Looking at the serial number for @Darkseid_of_town's book. I'm fairly confident in saying the invoice was created in 2017.

This system goes back to 2016, so most of CBCS' life. Serial numbers since then are made up of three parts. The first two digits are the last two of the year the invoice was created, followed by a dash, followed by the body of the invoice number, basically a set of seemingly random letters and numbers, always capitalized, followed by a dash, and finally the number of the book within the order (determined alphabetically by title and then sorted by tier).

Prior to 2016, CBCS briefly began their invoices with "00." Even earlier, CBCS' earliest books had a different invoicing system that began with a sequence of seven numbers, a dash, then a double letter code "AA," "AB," etc, which I believe divided up the tiers, followed by a dash, and finally 3 digits identifying the book within the tier, sorted alphabetically
Post 103 IP   flag post
CBCS President sborock private msg quote post Address this user
Great news!
I spoke with Matt Nelson at CGC and we will be sending all labels back to each other to keep the census at both companies as correct as possible.
This is great for the hobby!
Post 104 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Is there an understanding as to why CBCS/CGC believe collectors do not send in labels when cracking out and re-submitting? Do the companies have a belief on the psychology to this?
Post 105 IP   flag post
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