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Census timetable112

Collector spacecitycomics private msg quote post Address this user
If it has been addressed , I would probably not apologize.
Is there a time table ?
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Collector Marc_1 private msg quote post Address this user
When it's ready!
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Does there really need to be one?
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Collector Owen_Lorder private msg quote post Address this user
We MUST KNOW how many of each grade there are out there.
Kinda like the retailer ratio aspect epidemic.
We MUST know!
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Collector thirdgreenham private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
Does there really need to be one?


It would be helpful for buying and selling them.
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Collector outlawmonster private msg quote post Address this user
I would love to know when! I find it fun to see how rare my graded books are!
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Collector Owen_Lorder private msg quote post Address this user
BTW I was being my usual sarcastic self..
Sorry, I get like that sometime :-/
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Well, I don't really have a problem with there being one except that eventually the stats on many older books are going to become less reliable as the crack and resubmit habit continues. Not to mention the habit of people using the stats to market their books as scarce when it may well be that very few may have seen the value of submitting certain books for grading.
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Collector Iceman399 private msg quote post Address this user
Speaking with Steve P. at TCC a month ago it sounds like the Census and Registry will be around the same time. Likely a "bit" out as they are working on some really cool features for the registry.
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Collector outlawmonster private msg quote post Address this user
If it's like the forum, it's going to rock!
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Collector spacecitycomics private msg quote post Address this user
I would just hope that it is a fairly accurate representation of the work that Steve & crew have done. I also think that there should be an EASIER way to delete individual books on the census
from the other service across town. Sending in labels seems the only legit way to do it, as I crack all my purchases, I don't recall seeing any lower numbers on a few that had sparse grading.
All those IH 181 I sold have probably been regraded quite a few times by now.
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Collector JazzyJeffie private msg quote post Address this user
I wonder what the criteria for deciding to finally show a Census would be.
I mean, CBCS has been around for a few years already, and I'm sure there are a lot of books that have already been graded "and stay graded".
Launching a census is relatively easy, because they have the data available (based on all our Invoices). Making it searchable, and viewable, is all I ask. It doesn't have to be too fancy at first release, as long as you can see the number of books broken down by grade, I'm sure most CBCS customers will be happy.

It's better than nothing.
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Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie
Launching a census is relatively easy, because they have the data available (based on all our Invoices). Making it searchable, and viewable, is all I ask.


What do yo mean by "make it viewable"?
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Collector JazzyJeffie private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie
Launching a census is relatively easy, because they have the data available (based on all our Invoices). Making it searchable, and viewable, is all I ask.


What do yo mean by "make it viewable"?


As in, it's available for everyone to see (the Public) and you don't have to pay for it. It's a database of all books graded. This is readily-available, and is easy to update, as people submit books and as they get graded by CBCS. Can't imagine why there has to be cost for it.
Submitting books for grading is already paid for. Why also restrict this census for submitters who pay Membership Fees?
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Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie
Launching a census is relatively easy, because they have the data available (based on all our Invoices). Making it searchable, and viewable, is all I ask.


What do yo mean by "make it viewable"?


As in, it's available for everyone to see (the Public) and you don't have to pay for it. It's a database of all books graded. This is readily-available, and is easy to update, as people submit books and as they get graded by CBCS. Can't imagine why there has to be cost for it.
Submitting books for grading is already paid for. Why also restrict this census for submitters who pay Membership Fees?


I see. I just assumed that the CBCS census would be free, did you hear a rumor or something? But don't give CGC any ideas, next thing you know they'll start charging for the census!
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Collector WEBHEAD private msg quote post Address this user
When did CGC start up it's census? and can GPA set up a CBCS page?
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector JazzyJeffie private msg quote post Address this user
I wonder what's taking CBCS so long to come up with a Census. It doesn't have to be Public as a start, it can just be available to us CBCS Members.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
There's two issues at hand. First CBCS wanted to make sure they had a sizable database ready before launching it. Second, their brand new IT guy just got hired on last week.
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Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
CBCS should take time developing their guidelines and objectives to avoid confusion and conflicting entries with established CGC census parameters. It would be useful to incorporate the available census data from CGC, at least non-proprietory data, although that would probably involve some sort of complicated business negotiation.

CGC has made things difficult by the service's inability to determine all resubs whether they've resulted in grade bumps or not. That causes double, perhaps triple entries in higher grades skewing the census numbers. If CBCS could include a check mark or other determiner for those books known to be reholdered from CGC it would help.

Also, an estimate of graded books from both services and perhaps a chart indicating where most graded copies fall condition-wise would be beneficial. I realize this is asking a lot, but the more accurate data a census provides the more useful it will be perceived by the collecting community.
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Collector JazzyJeffie private msg quote post Address this user
@CatmanAmerica Those points are good, but can be complicated. How can CBCS keep track of a book that's been cracked again and again because of having new artists sign the book over and over? Sounds tedious.

I'll be content with CBCS just showing a population of each graded CBCS book, because I can just look up CGC info if I need to, and judge the value by myself. And it's just a start, CBCS can choose to evolve their population database into an actual more-accurate Census that takes into consideration the reholdering and crack-and-sign instances.
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Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie
@CatmanAmerica Those points are good, but can be complicated. How can CBCS keep track of a book that's been cracked again and again because of having new artists sign the book over and over? Sounds tedious.

I'll be content with CBCS just showing a population of each graded CBCS book, because I can just look up CGC info if I need to, and judge the value by myself. And it's just a start, CBCS can choose to evolve their population database into an actual more-accurate Census that takes into consideration the reholdering and crack-and-sign instances.


The first rule of developing an honest census is realizing that it will never be 100% accurate. You have to work from reliable data and extrapolate based on likelihood.

While it is entirely feasible to develope totally separate census data at each third party grading facility, the reliability diminishes if competing data isn't taken into account.

This is less important with low and mid-grade books as fewer of those get resubmitted for potential grade bumping. However, submitting books to different third party grading services may produce duplications on a broader scale, and on frequently resubmitted high grade books it can skew numbers dramatically.

This is where a FC/BC image data base would prove useful for submissions of rarer/popular SA books and higher profile GA books that command high prices.

I'm not suggesting that building a reliable census data base would be easy, but if properly developed it's enhanced usefulness would be extremely valuable to the collecting community and a huge feather in the cap of the grading service constructing it.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector JazzyJeffie private msg quote post Address this user
Are other hobbies experiencing this conflict? How about for Trading Cards, do we know?
I know Beckett Grading Service (BGS) is the CGC of Trading Cards, despite PSA being around for longer. Do they have a combined census that benefits the hobby?
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector captnwilli private msg quote post Address this user
Also collectors as well as retailers would have to be vigilant in helping to do their part in keeping whatever census there is accurate. I wonder just how many people send in their old labels to be deleted after cracking open a slab to get it signed and then resubmitted under said different label?
In all honesty, I venture to say that most people (especially at the retailer level)don't even worry about it.
I'd like to think I'm totally wrong in making that assumption though.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@captnwilli I believe yellow labels need to be cracked in the prssence of an AW, and remain with the raw book through the signing and submission process to maintain their validity on the older sigs? The big problem is CPRs (Crack, Press, Resubmit) and the old labels remaining in the system. I can't even phathom how such a problem would be solved.
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Collector The_Curmudgeon private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I can't even phathom how such a problem would be solved.

High-res scans, then "fingerprint" the front and back cover.
I don't know if any two books could be the same, but I can tell you my multiple copies are all different even though they came from the printers in sequence.
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie
@CatmanAmerica Those points are good, but can be complicated. How can CBCS keep track of a book that's been cracked again and again because of having new artists sign the book over and over? Sounds tedious.

I'll be content with CBCS just showing a population of each graded CBCS book, because I can just look up CGC info if I need to, and judge the value by myself. And it's just a start, CBCS can choose to evolve their population database into an actual more-accurate Census that takes into consideration the reholdering and crack-and-sign instances.


The first rule of developing an honest census is realizing that it will never be 100% accurate. You have to work from reliable data and extrapolate based on likelihood.

While it is entirely feasible to develope totally separate census data at each third party grading facility, the reliability diminishes if competing data isn't taken into account.

This is less important with low and mid-grade books as fewer of those get resubmitted for potential grade bumping. However, submitting books to different third party grading services may produce duplications on a broader scale, and on frequently resubmitted high grade books it can skew numbers dramatically.

This is where a FC/BC image data base would prove useful for submissions of rarer/popular SA books and higher profile GA books that command high prices.

I'm not suggesting that building a reliable census data base would be easy, but if properly developed it's enhanced usefulness would be extremely valuable to the collecting community and a huge feather in the cap of the grading service constructing it.


Good points but probably easier said than done. I guess my main issue would be just how reliable is the data in the CGC census considering how many crack and resubs have been done without turning in the previous label? When the Manufactured Gold thread existed over at CGC and the database at NOD it was quite apparent that not only were there many instances of books exist twice, or more in the census but some were also losing their pedigree designation. The Curmudgeon's idea of fingerprinting books is more than possible but is it also something that can be done quickly enough that it will not hinder processing books through the facility.

How the heck would you get the two companies to even agree to share such data?

I really like your points and I had never even considered such things but just how feasible is it?

(Just as an aside because of the duplicate data points in the CGC census I don't trust know how much to trust it beyond a snapshot of what has flowed through the doors of CGC. I can bring myself to trust it enough to use it for marketing scarcity the way some have.)
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Collector captnwilli private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@captnwilli I believe yellow labels need to be cracked in the prssence of an AW, and remain with the raw book through the signing and submission process to maintain their validity on the older sigs? The big problem is CPRs (Crack, Press, Resubmit) and the old labels remaining in the system. I can't even phathom how such a problem would be solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@captnwilli I believe yellow labels need to be cracked in the prssence of an AW, and remain with the raw book through the signing and submission process to maintain their validity on the older sigs? The big problem is CPRs (Crack, Press, Resubmit) and the old labels remaining in the system. I can't even phathom how such a problem would be solved.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector captnwilli private msg quote post Address this user
Sorry about the double quote. The guy at the CGC table was very annoyed that I wanted him to crack it open and the after running over to Desert Wind who was taking care of the Baltimore Comic Cons signature series books l handed them the then old label and as I turned away my daughter said "you know he just threw that in the trash basket, right?"
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Collector captnwilli private msg quote post Address this user
Come to think of it, DW didn't handle it that next upcoming year.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@captnwilli He threw a yellow label in the trash?
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