Donny Cates on comic piracy article10595
 Collector
|
Donnied private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The concept of the government forcing people to buy a product that they don't want is absurd, and unconstitutional. So I agree we all, including young people, are being robbed by the Socialist Party, more commonly called Democrats. I don't agree that this in any way justifies young people stealing from anybody. Maybe if they educated themselves enough to shake off the brainwashing from the liberal elite, and learn the concept of earning money, through actual work, then they can use it to buy the things they want. Nobody is entitled to steal. |
||
| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
|
EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I may have veered a little over the no politics line. Starting the countdown to thread closing. | ||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
|
IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller Oh, maybe the mods can turn a blind eye or just snip a bit  |
||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is why we can't have nice things. People just can't help making everything about one political party or another. | ||
| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
|
sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller It's your own fault! in the words of the venerable & all knowing Super Chicken, "you-knew-the-job-was-dangerous-when-you-took-it". Oops, forgot, LOL! |
||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In general I dont condone theft and try to buy the things I enjoy but...and yes you had to see that but coming....I do have an issue with the music industry and their whining about piracy etc. My complaint is rather obvious and simple...I began listening to and collecting music on 45 records as a kid. At some point I grew into collecting 8 tracks...so I paid for it all over again on this new format....and along came....cassettes...so if you owned all that Kiss had done on 8 track, you were somewhat forced to purchase it yet again on.....cassette......but wait, theres these little things called CD's so buy it all again...oh wait...lets convert to MP3"s....so guess what? NO NO and NO AGAIN.... I can respect your arguments about piracy music business, if you only charge me an upgrade cost to move from album to cassette, from cassette to cd etc.....but each time you require someone re-buy each record, each album, etc. If you had been fair about yourself from the start I wouldnt feel less than inclined to buy any of your products anymore music business, sorry Of course, that same argument could be made for VHS...-DVD- Bluerays today as well. Comic books I just buy, I like the feeling of the book in my hand .. |
||
| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
|
Masculinity takes a holiday.
|
EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm curious, are digital versions of comic books cheap to purchase online, the way music is? I suspect that only 2%-3% of pirated digital comics actually reduce physical comic sales. I'm guessing about 98% of the thieves are only reading a comic because it's available free, and would possibly pay a small fee (Maybe up to 50 cents) to read it online, but would never by a physical copy at $4 a book. | ||
| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town That argument doesn't apply to comics, because the comics have always been and are still being released in the same format. Besides, unless your 8 track player, etc, broke and you could no longer play what you bought, no one forced you to upgrade your old music. | ||
| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I did end my post above with the comment I prefer comics in hand but even then no, they aren't the same format as they have always been. For instance in the forties a comic was much larger from spine to page side, and also contained around 64 pages...today they are not larger than maybe twelve pages, and have been trimmed down to almost half the size of a golden age book or slightly more. Nevermind that most of todays comics are mostly ads to boot. Even then the argument fails because now you have digital comics, as well as trade paperbacks and graphic novels which were non existent when I was a kid. So even comics have changed formats quite a bit over the years, although not nearly to the point of reducing the choice to only the most modern format yet..... As for your argument about a broken eight track player , you fail to understand the point I made entirely. If I choose to buy a dvd to move up from a VHS, then I should be allowed to do so with a minimal upgrade fee, rather than paying all over again...or conversely from a cassette to a CD. For years the music and entertainment industry have screamed about piracy while quietly charging us over and over for the precise same content ….My initial purchase covered the actors fees, licenses and production costs of the movie or studio recording I have purchased. If we are to accept their argument then at the same time they should be obligated to honor said purchases .Fair is fair... it doesn't matter if someone forces you to upgrade or not..my point is and remains..if I do upgrade, and we are to respect that things must be purchased, once we purchase those, we should then own them and only be charged to upgrade the medium which they are presented on. Since that isn't the case, I am not tremendously worried if they get paid for things that have been released and re-released for generations. |
||
| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I really don't think theft is ever a partisan issue. One of the many sad aspects of life in this world today is the tribalism. "My team did it, then, we should understand, but your team did it then we need to KILL them!" Stealing is wrong regardless of the political affiliation of the person doing it. Another interesting experiment is that you can see people's biases come in full force over seemingly innocuous statements. Most of the time these people don't know anyone from the other side and are instead reacting emotionally. To get back on topic, There are a lot of problems with the copyright laws and the system, but when you pirate things you're hurting hard working people, too. Not just evil corporations. |
||
| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector*
|
Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Stealing is stealing. It isn’t right. It is wrong. To state I think it is OK because of________ is just an attempted justification. |
||
| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If its in fact stealing I agree, when it isn't, then there is no attempted justification, just the facts. | ||
| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
|
Masculinity takes a holiday.
|
EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater I bet if we dig deep we can all come up with scenarios where we would have feelings inconsistent with that statement. I see three levels of wrong, there's what we know in our hearts to be wrong, what society establishes as wrong through laws, and what society confirms as wrong by enforcing laws. In my line of work people steal my expertise and experience from me from time to time. They have me come in and design a scope of work for them that they have no intention of ever purchasing through me. They then take it to an acquaintance who will implement it at a lower price. The reason they don't go to the acquaintance first is because they know that I am the expert and they want my design ideas, they know that as a specialist in a specific arena, I have a different level of options and details available. I get paid nothing in this situation, I spend my time and money traveling to them under the pretense that they may actually do business with me. It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen...I've even called a few people out on it and in some cases they recognized that what they were doing was wrong and apologized. The point is, while I may consider this a theft and God may consider this a theft, society has chosen not to consider this to be stealing, and I have to accept this as a cost of doing business...otherwise it would make me insane with anger and suspicion. Societies establish their rules by setting laws and then enforcing laws. When society chooses not to create or not to enforce a law, it means that society has pretty much decided that it is not wrong. |
||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector*
|
Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbaySeller Simply put we differ. Stealing is wrong and that’s my opinion. I will continue to teach that to my child. To do anything else would be a disservice to the way my wife and I believe he should be raised. We would not seek to instill in him a false idea of what character is and should be. |
||
| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I dont think you actually differ, Ebayseller makes a valid point . Stealing is wrong, and he did not state otherwise...what he did do is provide an example for which there are hundreds, where the DEFINITION of stealing can be difficult to determine ..what is and what is not. You can instill and distill anything you like, but at the end of the day you are allowing yourself to determine and draw the line what you feel stealing is and is not....society, laws, even peoples morals differ and the definition of stealing is often a moving goalpost. Some might agree with where and how you draw the line..some might disagree. Teaching a child your values and ideals is commendable and you are doing what my parents did as well. But at the end of the day....you can teach a child what you know...or teach a child to think for themselves...... |
||
| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
|
Masculinity takes a holiday.
|
EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town When the kids were young I taught them pretty much in absolutes...stealing is wrong, lying is wrong. At 10 years old my son lied, right in front of me, to protect another child from an irrational parent. It was absolutely, undeniably the right thing to do. He asked me if I was mad at him. I said no way, in fact I'm impressed that you naturally understand that the Golden Rule supersedes all other rules. There will be situations where our actions will be justifiably inconsistent with our core beliefs. We discussed that people who don't understand that the rule is governed by the purpose are called Extremists. Not to say that any of this deep philosophy actually justifies pirating digital comic books.  |
||
| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector*
|
Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town I hope and pray my child will not rationalize stealing by defining it in a way where ripping a CD, downloading music, downloading a comic in an illegal way is OK because he paid for it on one storage format and now wants to upgrade to the newest storage format without paying for it. In our family his ability to determine what is right and wrong isn’t at the level my wife and I would consider to be honorable. One isn’t born with integrity. It is learned. We would have failed him if he chose to live his life that way. |
||
| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have noticed in your responses in the forum that attacking others, insulting people and degrading those who do not hold the same opinions as your own is a constant. I will not follow your example, as it in itself lacks ...that word you like to toss around, integrity, since integrity relies on respect for others and their ideals and thoughts as well as property and holdings. "integrity implies trustworthiness and incorruptibility to a degree that one is incapable of being false to a trust, responsibility, or pledge." Make note that the word is NOT defined by blind allegiance to some assumed higher form of idealism.....you are free to interpret theft, stealing, and honesty however you like, but understand this clearly....you are not allowed to determine my own values, logic and core beliefs, nor to question those . You can cut your children's hands off if they steal and you choose...but get it in your mind quite clearly, that my own hands are mine to use how I see fit.... Indeed integrity is earned, as is the ability to utilize intelligence, analyze criteria and make logical decisions rather than following blindly.....You may hope and pray for what you like, and you may also condemn my own choices, while trundling about on your moral wafer, but at the end of the day , regardless if you have the capability to understand it or not, every situation is different and each choice we make can be integrity based whle also utilizing logic, intelligence and an understanding of fairness and practical values. My point is , was and remains this. If you purchase a DVD by example, and the cost to you is 19.99, that DVD as a material expense might have cost around 50 cents for box, and materials. The remainder of the money spent is for the artists, the studio, licensing, distribution and so forth. Once I have purchased this content it should be belong to me...if I choose at some later date to move to a higher format, or better method of storage, I should be able to pay the DIFFERENCE between the existing one and the next step....get it champ? Noone attempted to argue that it is right to steal....that was your own straw man argument you erected. When music or movie industry people start whining about piracy I again reference their habbit of charging and recharging repeatedly for the same content they already sold to me. Surely if they wish to make piracy an issue they also should not be in the business of double charging for the same things over and over.... More simply put, I have no problem paying for anything the first time I buy it....integrity. If the industry were to demonstrate the same integrity, they would honor that purchase, and when I go to move from say VHS to DVD, they would say, oh I see her you registered your copy of (insert name) already, and bought from us already, so please pay the upgrade fee of 2.00 or whatever it is...but ...and since you are so consumed with integrity, their own lack of it requires they charge me all over again and again.....being paid for that same content over and over repeatedly, because...integrity? Double charging someone isn't integrity , its theft... |
||
| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbaySeller Great story. I think we all agree the basic premise that stealing is wrong, but facts can change to where it’s more of a grey area at times. A man steals bread to feed his starving family? Stealing, but a slightly different situation. Motive would matter. Then you have unjust laws. For example, making a certain group of people sit at the back of a bus. I think we all agree that Rosa Parks was right, but in reality she did break the law. Teaching your kids the basics and to respect the rules is necessary in society, but having critical thinking to determine what “right” is is important, too. I think we are all on the same page but maybe on different legs of the journey. |
||
| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Couldn't agree more with you jabberwookie..critical thinking is everything Ebay seller posted something that is pure gold... "There will be situations where our actions will be justifiably inconsistent with our core beliefs. We discussed that people who don't understand that the rule is governed by the purpose are called Extremists. " …"that the rule is governed by the purpose".....otherwise it is just extremism |
||
| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town Thanks! But, I think I see where Towmater is coming from, too. If we don’t respect rules, laws, what is right, then people start picking and choosing the ones we want to follow. Sometimes the answer is simple and sometimes, like your example, it’s muddier. Unfortunately, that kind of complexity seems to come with age and not everyone gets it. If you’re speeding because your wife is in labor, that’s excusable for some. If you’re doing it because you want to get home fast, well, you’d hope the individual has enough sense to realize they are doing it from a selfish perspective. It’s a fascinating subject, and I don’t really think anyone is wrong, but the interpretations might need tweaking. I just assume I know nothing and it makes things easier. Socrates said he knew nothing and I’m not smarter than him. |
||
| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In the end it still all boils down to critical thinking...blind obediance to any ideal or cause does more irreparable damage than questioning and forming a better law, or better understanding of the problem. Saw a meme once that said I would rather have answers that pose more questions than answers I cannot question. I will go with that, others can follow whatever they think is best. Stealing is wrong...but so is stealing by the movie industry, and recording execs. |
||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector*
|
Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town I stopped reading your post that mischaracterized me and my post. That being said, I stand by my post about failing my child if he doesn’t know that seeking to steal for the creator of something is wrong. Stealing is stealing. As he moves from childhood, to adulthood we will continue to reinforce the fact that only he can give away his integrity and at that point he won’t have it anymore. He will find out during his life that dishonorable people with no integrity cannot be trusted and only act through selfishness. Those people aren’t worth his time nor his friendship. |
||
| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town I tend to agree with you, but you have to admit it’s a slippery slope. I think that’s where any disagreement might lie. Either way, it’s an interesting topic and fun to discuss. |
||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Arak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ok !!! Wow you little Instigators ...Y'all are just the cutest lil bunch. Almost makes me wish we were in the backyard and everyone could glove up and get in the ring Indeed Indeed DARKSEID , My movie collecting woes beta-max,VHS,laser-disc CD, DVD,Blue Ray Good God how many friggin times do I have to pay for Scar-face , Dark-night, and Shaw-shank??? And grandma was a good friend with Hank Williams and they had a record that was super thick in between the 33 BIG n 45 small .78 on the Victrola I am catchin what your stressin ....................and pickin up what your putting down Isn't it interesting that those corporations/LLC's (who have all the legal rights of a person )driven and motivated strictly by profit concluded that it would be detrimental and non advantageous to incarcerate any of the young people for theft of property. It would affect the holy "bottom line" these youth will soon become their primary demographic. further studies suggest that they hate change , take the path of least resistance,and will gladly trade dollars to avoid both. referred to as neuro -associative conditioning, simply put , the carrot and the stick , pain and pleasure . further determined that these same people could be charged obscene amounts of money for basically the same material. with just a minor change to the packaging. music, movies,literature , hold on to your hats boys and girls...COMIC BOOKS!! "Here's what to do starting in the 90's ... minimize your product like everyone, substitute great stories ( ingredients ) for flashy eye catching art work. Oh and ( your going to love this) take all the additional nice pictures that use to be in the back of the book and slap them on the cover. call them variants and resell the same book 15 times. "But where is your compassion and loyalty to all your fans" We have none. were only about profit and bottom line. SO should you steal.....hmmmm is it steal | |
||
| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
|
Masculinity takes a holiday.
|
EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Good info Arak, the puzzle pieces fit together nicely to explain what we all knew we were seeing, but didn’t always know exactly why we were seeing it. Donny Cates has every right to feel how he does. But it’s not in the best interest of himself our the industry. Donny is playing checkers when the game is Chess. I think we all agree that stealing is generally wrong. But from a business standpoint It’s not about alienating and excluding non-paying fans, it’s about embracing and evolving them, as Arak explains above. Donny would do well to start thinking 2 or 3 steps ahead. |
||
| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There will always be extremists that destroy our world in the name of saving it. There will always be people for whom logic and higher thinking are ruled out due to mental laziness society evolves anyways and hopefully those who refuse to think become the quiet minority | ||
| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
|
Masculinity takes a holiday.
|
EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If the plans for the Death Star had not been stolen, Star Wars would have been a single movie franchise with a much darker ending. | ||
| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
BrashSmurf private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So wouldn't paying someone for a sketch of someone else's character be stealing, and worse stealing while making a profit off of others work. | ||
| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Darryl_H private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan That ASM run was EPIC! Issue #250 is one of my all time favorites! Roger Stern was brilliant! |
||
| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
This topic is archived. Start new topic?