To Grade or Not to Grade: That is the Question.9921
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I slab most books when they have a raw value over $20 but the catch with my books is that I like to have them signed. I live outside of the USA so I can only get them signed when I go to conventions myself as to not incur in additional costs for getting signatures plus shipping one or two books to the USA which is also expensive. Last year I made my first submission of blue label books only but they were all silver or bronze age. I haven't seen the books submitted yet but I do know the grades. Maybe I will keep sending books for blue label if I like the ones I already sent. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Donnied private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wow darkseid, your counters are unreasoned and confused! Supply, demand and SCARCITY? (Supply and scarcity are the same thing!) So, no, Supply and Demand are actually the only game. Geez. If anybody decides they can justify slabbing for the purpose of "preserving" (yes, protecting is the same thing) comics, then they haven't done enough investigating. Using 35 cents worth of mylar snugs and buffered backing boards is actually a cost effective and proven method of preservation (has worked for me for over 4 decades) compared to slabbing at 100 times that cost. Your claim of dozens of years of preservation proof doesn't hold up since CGC only started 19 years ago (and the original cases kind of sucked). And slabbing IS a better way than polybags in a cardboard box, but its by far not the best method. And just because a few people are foolish for wasting their money that way doesn't prove your point either. Individual actions can be very odd, (such as spending a lot of money slabbing comics just to look at them, or for god's sake, reslabbing for a scratch in the slab!) also doesn't mean that the MAJORITY of people do the same thing. I also never claimed that 99 percent number. What I said was 90 percent AT THE TIME were sold via Ebay, which is not debatable, and documented. The impact of the emergence of Ebay on comic collecting can't be overstated. The hobby was dying, until this marketing method came about and grew the hobby to what it eventually became today. CGC, and eventually CBCS, came into existence to solve the grading problem with internet selling and buying, which AT THE TIME was through Ebay. What is a facetious argument is why anybody would spend a lot of money slabbing a comic they own to have it "verified" or "checked for restoration" or whatever excuse, just to look at it and then take to the grave? Honestly, foolish spending is the third leg of the tripod that keeps the collecting industry from falling down, but it doesn't prove anything by itself. People waste money for all kinds of reasons. And, if you'll note, the original post stated "from a purely investment perspective" so your odd reasons for slabbing don't apply here. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Definition of scarcity : the quality or state of being scarce Definition of supply : the act or process of filling a want or need engaged in the supply of raw materials to industry : the quantities of goods or services offered for sale at a particular time or at one price : something that maintains or constitutes a supply Now after reading these literal definitions is it a bit more clear that scarcity and supply are seperate entities ? Scarcity is created by demand and lack of supply, whereas supply is the amount provided to start with, nevermind extemporaneous factors. Lets take this statement first..."If anybody decides they can justify slabbing for the purpose of "preserving" (yes, protecting is the same thing) comics, then they haven't done enough investigating. Using 35 cents worth of mylar snugs and buffered backing boards is actually a cost effective and proven method of preservation (has worked for me for over 4 decades) compared to slabbing at 100 times that cost. " Noone said that slabbing was the most cost efficient, you are attempting to shift the argument to fit your own statements.....people justify the more expensive approach all the time, hene why we have limos and acuras......luxury hotels and Days Inn. The cheapest isnt always the most desired for some people....trying to imply that because you chose the cheapest route is best for all is rubbish. You then doubled down by stating that " Your claim of dozens of years of preservation proof doesn't hold up since CGC only started 19 years ago (and the original cases kind of sucked). And slabbing IS a better way than polybags in a cardboard box, but its by far not the best method. And just because a few people are foolish for wasting their money that way doesn't prove your point either. " Show me where I said there was evidence for slabbing past 19 years ago please.....I stated Aside from that archival preservation science are hardly new and the processes involved are rather well understood and have been for dozens of years. You do have to understand at some point the Library of Congress has grappled with these same and various issues for a hundred years or more in preserving and protecting our most valuable and key documents, books and art right? You sort of have to get that while slabbing is new to the comic community as in the past twenty years the knowledge involved....acids, decay, rates of absorption, sunlight damage, methods for interferring with those processes are rather well understood and have been for a long long time and when slabbing was designed it takes into account that knowledge, and those realizations to produce a method that does the best job possible protecting the book, while retaining afforability, portability and style. You do get that right? It isnt like we are test driving some super rare semi sonic collider project in deep space.....the science of comic preservation and protection is fairly well understood and factors in the way these comics are slabbed. You are either not paying attention or attempting to erect straw man arguments that you can then attack. Either way and in both cases thats a fail, sorry. It is rude, offensive and rather obvious. "Individual actions can be very odd, (such as spending a lot of money slabbing comics just to look at them, or for god's sake, reslabbing for a scratch in the slab!) also doesn't mean that the MAJORITY of people do the same thing. "....but...who are you to judge? its their comics, and their money...and right. You are entitled to your opinion...others are too. slamming them for it is pretentious " I also never claimed that 99 percent number. What I said was 90 percent AT THE TIME were sold via Ebay, which is not debatable, and documented. The impact of the emergence of Ebay on comic collecting can't be overstated. The hobby was dying, until this marketing method came about and grew the hobby to what it eventually became today. CGC, and eventually CBCS, came into existence to solve the grading problem with internet selling and buying, which AT THE TIME was through Ebay. " It is debateable, it is documented and those of us who were part of it know you are incorrect. Stating it is not debateable hardly proves a thing ...and is dismissive at best. The impact of the emergence of ebay on comic collecting has to be weighed vs the negatives it has given, fraudulent sellers, damaged books, and many other issues. It certainly is not and was nver the all saving grace of collecting and I challenge you to provide statistics that back it up...since both now and then cons, secondary sales avenues and brick and mortar operations constitute a far larger slice of pie than ebay serves or ever has. If you collected forty years you know fully well this hobby has never been dying in that time span...the early nineties saw the implosion of new books sales, and mass production induced problems, but it only strengthened the back issue market in particular. The market was due for adjustment, with so much speculation driven buying happening.The hobby has a solid track history back to the seventies and was never "dying"....creating melodramatics doesnt help the case. Why do people sculpt? Why do others paint? Why do some collect barbed wire? Why do some hoard happy meals toys? Do you think the answer is always profit and they are stupid people otherwise? People are driven by dozens of different criteria and needs and you are not that one person who gets to judge if its stupid or a good use of their time and effort....if people want to slab a book so they can admire it better with no concept of making a fast buck that is their and for that matter my right.... |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @poka Quote: Originally Posted by poka Agreed. A profit at least $100 to cover the grading fees, postage, selling fees and your own time. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Supply and Demand are variables. The level of scarcity is a function of supply and demand, it's not a third variable. Once you've stated supply and demand, scarcity is redundant. Just saying. |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Supply is a the amount there is of something available ...demand is how much of that commodity is desired or used or sold or taken. Scarcity by its own nature is a third variable ….shorten the supply and it creates scarce quantities, which then , yes causes more demand, making scarcity a variable that affects that demand. Back when generation one transformers were offered they were distributed poorly regionaly….one area might drown in Optimus prime while another couldn't get Megatron on the shelf to save its sales. There was adequate SUPPLY of the two toys, and a given level of demand that was likely consistent between the two areas, but due to perceived or regional SCARCITY the toy was considered rare and highly sought after by some collectors. So scarcity can be variable as well....supply, demand , scarcity, all help determine value of an object....there are tens of thousands of copies of NM 98 and x men 266 out there in high grade....prices are high because of what? There is adequate supply ...yes, but demand has created a false sense of scarcity for a common comic. Scarcity can be a function of supply and demand, but supply, or demand could also as easily become a function of scarcity just saying... |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Donnied Spot on Donnie Couldn't have said it better myself. The same is true in the sports card industry. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You have said it yourself, that doesn't make it any more accurate. | ||
| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Once a comic book is slabbed it is no longer a usable item(Comic Book) It becomes a Monetary commodity based solely on it's Market value. Slabbing for any other reason is simply foolish, Even more so when there are much more cost efficient ways to preserve and protect books that offer just as good or better quality than 3rd party slabs. 3rd party graders came about for one reason and one reason only, to give online buyers and sellers a standardized grading scale that both parties could agree upon and thus removing most of the subjectivity in order to give both buyer and seller confidence and piece of mind when both buying or selling. The fact that some people began to slab books for any other reasons (Preservation/Protection) is just an unexpected bonus 3rd party graders enjoy as they take in a plethora of cash for books that have no business being slabbed in the first place. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have no doubt you believe that for yourself, but it simply does not match everyones experience, sorry. As made quite clear already many people slab as part of a restoration or authentication process which might have zero to do with selling the book. You can pooh and pfft all you like at that , but not everyone does things according to your ideas or agenda sorry. I have had two books total slabbed for myself...and I still own both with zero intention of selling them....A JIM 103, first enchantress, released on my birthdate and Hawkman 4 , first Zatanna, released November of 1964 and my favorite character. I wont ever sell either book..they were pressed, cleaned and graded for my own personal satisfaction. that is neither foolish nor idiotic, and honestly its none of your pretentious and insulting business why I would do it. People do not all work the same way and its extremely short sighted for you to attempt arguing otherwise. Again I am sure you yourself believe that third party graders had to come into existence for only the reson you stated, but that is untrue. I remember when grading services first launched I was helping with backstock and mail order in a small corner comic store..do you know what they used the grading service for most? They were wanting books checked for trimming and restoration, not for any idea of a standardized grade so again despite the fact you refuse to accept others might be motivated differently than yourself, it has and does happen often sorry. and your final statement...."The fact that some people began to slab books for any other reasons (Preservation/Protection) is just an unexpected bonus 3rd party graders enjoy as they take in a plethora of cash for books that have no business being slabbed in the first place." Here I will fix it for you...The fact that some people began to slab books for standardized grades or other reasons {profit or resale value) is just a very expected bonus 3rd party graders enjoy as they take in a plethora of cash for books that have EVERY business being slabbed if the owner happens to choose so, because they aren't your books and not everyone is required to think like you fail to......thanks |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town OK, I get where you're coming from and this is a rare situation where two seemingly opposite statements can both be right. I apologize for getting deep in semantics but in your example you are referring to a phenomenom of "Temporary" or "Perceived" scarcity. In this case you are absolutely right, it does act as a short-term influence on demand. It happens in collectibles a lot. We see that all the time when a bronze age book like Marvel Preview 4 gets hot. The price of 9.8's shot up near $3,000...and then the perfect copies started coming out of the back rooms of comic shops and the price settled down to $1,500 range. Same would be true if your city was having trouble getting gasoline, sales of gasoline would increase dramatically for the next few days. However, with true, long-term scarcity it is already baked in the cake and while the price will adjust with demand, the demand will be based on factors other than scarcity. An example would be my copy of Jack Armstrong Famous Boy of Radio #1. Considered "Scarce" or "Rare" by Overstreet, the demand is not there and the value doesn't increase over time. By the way, will be interesting to see what happens with Moon Knight #1. I once had a distributor offer me a full box of unread #1's for 50 cents each if I would by the entire box. My guess is that they are everywhere. |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Precisely. You summarized it better than I could. Thanks! | ||
| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
 To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die.
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MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user | |
So here's a question on the to grade or not to grade. Would you grade these books if you were going to sell them or just try to sell them raw?    |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have my sandman 1 graded. Based on my methods, it is worth doing if you get at least a 9.2 Not familiar with the others |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
 I’m Kinda Married To A Celebrity.
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MutantMania I’d say only if they look to be 9.6 or better. |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die.
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MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user | |
@00slim Well the Spiderman and Red Son I think would definitely be at a 9.6 or better but not sure on the Sandman...Just looking to possibly try my first submission of books here and would like to find some good books to send. Thanks for the info  |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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I’m Kinda Married To A Celebrity.
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MutantMania Looking closer at sales records, the disparity between 9.2,9.4 & 9.6 for Sandman #1 is not too extreme. It’d still be worth it in that range. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Red_Blade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm relatively new to all this, but I'm a good researcher. My take on this is this: IF you are going to be slabbing "regularly" then you have to factor in the monetary returns. Just like in everything else, for it to be sustainable. So you've got to make sure the books would yield profit when the time comes for you to sell them. Maybe it's double or triple on what you've spent on them, at the minimum. Choose key issues, chase variants, first appearances, etc. IF you are however "not" going to be slabbing "regularly" then you don't have to factor in the cost and return. Say you just want to slab 10 books for display on your living room and then won't be slabbing again for some years. It's just like people who've bought new houses and wanted to display a grand piano in the living room or decorate their house with statues and vases. Those are one-offs or only once in many years. In that case just choose the best covers or ones with the most sentimental values to you. |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It’s three criteria to me: Is this valuable to me in some way? Like signed comics or ones my kids enjoy or some other personal value. Is this a monetarily valuable book? If it is, I want the value of the book to cover the grading. So, no set dollar value, but my Batman 635 is worth a good amount and is higher graded. So, I go for that. The third is age. Is it old? Is it worth me preserving. To add a little context here: I’m not flipping these or anything. They are my collection and I want to keep some of them in great shape, and eventually pass on to my kids. Plus, if they have to sell them for some reason, they’ll have them in good shape. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think slabbing definitely has a role in preservation. The vast majority of my collection is and will always been in mylites and fullbacks, but there are a couple of key books I've had slabbed strictly for preservation. As an example: Showcase 22. I bought a copy of it back in the late '80s or early '90s for $5. It's got water damage, holes punched in it and some guy named Tim H. wrote his name on the cover with a marker. While both staples were still attached throughout, the cover was hanging on by a whisper. I figured if the book was opened another 10, no more than 20 times, the cover would give way at one or both staples. I sent it in to CBCS, they graded it a 2.0 (still feel I got lucky there) and now it's safe in its slab and preserved, locked in at that grade for, well, the rest of my life. Yes, it cost 10 times what I paid for it to get it slabbed, but gocollect is now reporting value for 2.0 at $1,850. I don't plan to sell, but I think slabbing purely for preservation was still a wise investment. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC $3000 | ||
| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| With me I like to slab books just in case I need to sell but the likely scenario I kick the bucket and my wife eventually sells my books. She knows nothing about comics so third party grading comes into play. For example a Sub-mariner 16.  Bought this book years ago I just wanted a subby ww2 cover. Now it has punch holes in the back cover.  Last thing I would want is a dealer/ collector saying it's a poor or fair condition book and offering her a reduced percentage of a 1.0-1.5 I graded it a 3.0 with off-white/white pages and used this as one of my test books to see how accurate cbcs grading is. And it came back.  Also I'll send in to grade a book that's jump in value. A example is TTA 44 I bought for $60. Paid roughly $40 to grade and the book graded as 4.5 goes for over $400 Minimum for me is not price. I love pedigree books and though I'll have the pedigree on a sticker stuck to the mylar from a prominent dealer I like to get it third party verified on a label in a slab. Did this for the not so high grade Big Apple pedigrees so I'm behind the 8 ball in cost but as I said I love pedigrees and have no intention of selling. With that said I have Dell file copies and have no need to send them in for grading as they all have the file copy stamp on the bottom of the first page. Now if a book is a non pedigree book that would not sell for a minimum of $100 more then the cost for the books original purchase and grading fee I would not do. Unless sentimental reasons. Like all us collectors with different collecting tastes we all have different reasons for grading. Some for selling online. Some for signature or pedigree certification. Some for preservation or viewing reasons. Others for books high market value. And some for sentimental reasons. |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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