To Grade or Not to Grade: That is the Question.9921
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| From a purely investment perspective, what is the minimum value a graded comic needs to be for you to decide to submit for grading? | ||
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 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| that would depend on the book....A golden age green lantern 1 in 1.0 or perhaps Fantastic four in 1.8 are worth grading regardless the grade rendered whereas Justice League America 155 in shiny 8.0 maybe not so much...…that Barbie 1 with sealed bag and enclosed trading card probably wont make the cut in dead mint. For modern books I don't bother unless its a book I have some personal attachment to....for me that might mean a Mattina cover Female Furies 1, or a Ross cover Immortal Hulk 14....Dark Justice 1 variant , or any of a dozen books like Showcase 33 that feature Zatanna To me it makes no sense to invest in modern books, pay to grade and slab them and try to get them back rapidly enough to sell yours before the other 51 people offering the same signed, or variant or other gimmick sells theirs. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What I meant by my post is what is the minimum value or dollar amount? Would you slab a book (regardless of grade) that would net a purchase price of $50? Or do you have a rule of minimum $100 value? | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| or is it, as long as grading cost, shipping cost and packaging costs are less than the value of the graded book then you're good to grade it? | ||
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 Collector
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Briten private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To thine own self be true. If you want to slab and sell books, make sure that the cost to slab, press and ship doesn't exceed the value of your book. There is also a time value consideration. If turnaround is 3 months, maybe you are better selling an ungraded copy. Some ungraded books, ie hulk 181 will fetch graded prices when they are raw. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not something I could likely answer, market value of a book wouldn't determine any choice I made for grading, it would be more about previous history, reason for having the comic, and the who and what rather than the possible ring up value. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have no intention of selling my PC, but realistically, at some point, whether I'm alive or not, those books will be sold. I'm slowly going through my collection and slabbing them on both sides of the street. I'm doing it for 3 reasons, one is preservation, the look of an encapsulated book and of course the eventual sale of the book. I've slabbed many books up to this point and my choices have been primarily based on value (highest values books graded 1st and moving in a descending order). I'm starting to get to a point in my collection where the values are smaller now. Just curious what others choose when deciding on books based purely on value. | ||
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Donnied private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If you keep in mind the whole reason the slabbing phenomenon started was so comics could be sold on Ebay (the grade guarantees the comic is of a certain value compared to other examples of the comic that are for sale), then you decide if the price to slab, with shipping and insurance costs, justifies guaranteeing of that value. It only costs around $30 to $40, to slab an average book, so the justification point would be close to that for a reasonable selling point. So minimum I would say is comic value of $40, but I personally would hesitate to buy a $40 book for $70 or $80. | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The whole reason the slabbing business started was so books could be examined and verified for retoration, authenticity, grade and for preservational purposes , regardless what platform they would be sold. The grade of any comic is still subjective, and you often see people say buy the book not the slab, which is why crack and resubmit has become such a thing. Grading a comic guarantees nothing...often slabs sell far below the current field compared to other examples of the comic that are for sale. Another way to put it..I often purchase silver age marvel hero books on the MCS auctions in the 5.5 -6.5 range for 30-40 dollars …or below what the grading and slabbing might have cost once you factor in shipping. Having them graded and slabbed guaranteed nothing in the end, regarding their value. Value and...scarcity and demand should help determine if you are slabbing for resell purposes. You could slab and grade fifty copies of Walking Dead 192 but as long as MCS offers them for 8.00 raw, you are wasting your time |
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 I’m Kinda Married To A Celebrity.
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| While I’ve slabbed books just because I like them, if the decision comes down to monetary value, I’d ask myself this: How much do I already have into the book? If I paid $1 for it, and it’s worth $50+ raw and $100+ slabbed, I’ll slab it. If I paid $50, and it’s worth $100 slabbed, I probably would wait until the current market value rises before slabbing it. Basically, my all-in cost after slabbing needs to be 50% the FMV. With Silver age key books, I’m more lenient though. I might do 70% in that case for preservation. |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Silver/Bronze Keys or signature books only for me (or Key WITH signature) - they seem to always sell for significant profit regardless of grade. Moderns are transient and volatile so I rarely grade them unless they have a autograph (see above) |
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 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If I slabbed my PC I'd have to buy a new house to store them, plus the TPBs and other reprints in order to read the stories. And $100 value minimum (raw) before I'd slab something for sale. That might change since I haven't put much thought into selling. |
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Collector
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Donnied private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Sorry darkseid, but what I said about the origin of slabbing was correct. The only reason any object would be graded would be assess the value in comparison to others of the same object. In the case of comics this value is summed up in "how much can I sell it for?". The claims of "for preservation" are dubious at best, since the slabs don't have a long enough history to show that it is affective. And the only reason anything would be perserved is so it will retain it's value to be sold in the future. And since, at the time of CGC starting slabbing, probably 90% of all collectible comics being sold, were sold on Ebay. So it wasn't regardless of platform. Of course grading is subjective, but the grading companies sell the guarantee of less subjectivity, which is why they exist at all. Supply and demand are the names of the game. By slabbing we are hoping we make the supply smaller and the demand higher, thus increasing the selling price. There are no guarantees that it will ALWAYS work. We play the trends though. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Donniedsome seriously dubious claims made there...start with..." The only reason any object would be graded would be assess the value in comparison to others of the same object. In the case of comics this value is summed up in "how much can I sell it for?". The claims of "for preservation" are dubious at best, since the slabs don't have a long enough history to show that it is affective. know quite a few people who slab books to protect them and sell nothing.Period. Arguing the only reason for anything is a first person projection at best. People slab to have restoration verified...people slab to verify an item is not counterfeit, people slab to protect. Since they are not and have no intention of selling, value has no home on that block. The argument you are making is facetiously and entirely wrong....as for preservation you are aware you can have books reslabbed relatively cheap right? Most of the heavy hitters I know reslab every one they purchase to keep it fresh, scratch free and nice. Aside from that archival preservation science are hardly new and the processes involved are rather well understood and have been for dozens of years. Simple fact is the slabbing process when done properly is generally a quality method of storage and preservation. That is an accepted consensus in most comic communities and arguing otherwise wont bear much for fruit. You claim..."And the only reason anything would be perserved is so it will retain it's value to be sold in the future"{ I sometimes slab books , have no heirs and could care less cause I have no intention to sell....now what? Sometimes people do things for other reasons than your own...simple truth.In my case I slab if I want to display the book or I want to keep it outside my safety deposit box, so it can withstand handling. So reality check here...99 percecnt of comics are not sold on ebay and never were.....they are sold at brick and mortars, conventions, shows, auction houses, and dozens of other venues as well....when those others are combined ebays share of that pie is tiny compared. Back when grading houses came into being ebay certainly wasn't the king of comic sellin, due to subjective grading. However to argue ebay is the place for 99 percwent nowdays is badly flawed, read the overstreet market reports and make note where the dealers show their best sales and highest traffic...most often at cons. Supply and demand are not the name of the game...supply, demand and SCARCITY are ….you can apply that to books like x force one...spiderman 1, and dozens of otherwise highly speculated and massively overproduced books to understand that scarcity goes hand in hand with the other two Supply can be gobbled up for books that are otherwise valueless...like NM98 or x men 266 where there are tens of thousands of copies, but had those books been short printed they would truly achieve massive price levels. Katie Keene pinup parade 15 has 15-20 copies known but is worth maybe 250 at best.... |
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Sebastsk8 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well, I can't agree 100% there though. I personally have some slabbed and graded for my own collection that have very little to do with price. Some rare variants which are signed of the new absolute carnage #1 for example. I have no intention of selling them, I got them slabbed and graded for my own purposes, mostly for display because they look nice and it hopefully will help preserve their condition in the future. Sure, that will maintain their value and how salable they are in the future for myself or my kids etc, but my real reason was just because I liked them. | ||
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For me I look at EBay sales of slabbed books to see if I want to grade it. Sometimes (I am thinking about girl Thor #1 right now) I’ll chase the 9.8 just for fun, test my eye. Golden Age I have slabbed married books, detached books, crumbly books. It’s a great preservation tool. But mainly I slab keys, or get signatures authenticated, if they are cool enough keys and go for at least around $100 |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Preservation does not only mean preserving delicate papers to archival standards....preservation can also mean protection from physical abuse. | ||
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 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Probably 3-figures. | ||
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I get graded what I want. $3 book or a $3000 book. Many times the $3 book becomes a $300 book graded. | ||
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KeepItClunky private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ultimately one should slab what they like. However, at some point $ has to play a role. It depends on how much money I have in the book. My general rule is I have to be able to walk away with at least $100 profit after the cost of the book, pressing, grading, and postage fees are all accounted for should I want/need to sell. | ||
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I grade books when I can get at least double the cost of getting it graded. It beats selling it for a $1. |
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 I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @kaptainmyke Unfortunately, not all of us are blessed with the "turtle " touch..... =) I've seen soo many 3 dollar books better off lining bird cages..... =( |
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For me it's all about liquidity. I assume in a cash crunch a LCS would give me 40% of FMV for most of the raw "Minor" Keys that I collect. I also have to rely on their fairness in grading my books. With CBCS Raw Grade (approx $18 total cost for Silver Age) I assume I can get 90% of FMV on Ebay within a week, with 12% selling fees. Try to follow the math here: So to justify Silver Age Raw Grade, the formula for minimum required FMV would be: 90% FMV - 12%Selling Fees -$18= 40%FMV (LCS Value) .78FMV -$18= .4FMV .38FMV= $18 FMV= $18/.38 FMV= $48 minimum required to justify Silver Age "Raw Grade" grading and selling on Ebay vs. selling to LCS, for modern books it would be approx $38. For slabbing that numbers goes to approx $80 for Silver Age, but still around $50 for Modern Age I use Raw Grade almost exclusively for Silver Age books, for modern I will pay the small additional fee to have them slabbed. |
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For me, if a GA or SA book that I already own will have a value of at least $100 (and hopefully more), I will consider paying the $27 to $30 fee to have it slabbed. For BA, CA, and moderns, they would probably have to be worth in the $50-75 range or more to justify the $16 fee. | ||
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 Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Min $100 if for selling. For Personal use - i might do an odd one with lower if something I wish to preserve |
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Collector
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SpiderTim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I slab most books when they have a raw value over $20 but the catch with my books is that I like to have them signed. I live outside of the USA so I can only get them signed when I go to conventions myself as to not incur in additional costs for getting signatures plus shipping one or two books to the USA which is also expensive. Last year I made my first submission of blue label books only but they were all silver or bronze age. I haven't seen the books submitted yet but I do know the grades. Maybe I will keep sending books for blue label if I like the ones I already sent. |
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Donnied private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wow darkseid, your counters are unreasoned and confused! Supply, demand and SCARCITY? (Supply and scarcity are the same thing!) So, no, Supply and Demand are actually the only game. Geez. If anybody decides they can justify slabbing for the purpose of "preserving" (yes, protecting is the same thing) comics, then they haven't done enough investigating. Using 35 cents worth of mylar snugs and buffered backing boards is actually a cost effective and proven method of preservation (has worked for me for over 4 decades) compared to slabbing at 100 times that cost. Your claim of dozens of years of preservation proof doesn't hold up since CGC only started 19 years ago (and the original cases kind of sucked). And slabbing IS a better way than polybags in a cardboard box, but its by far not the best method. And just because a few people are foolish for wasting their money that way doesn't prove your point either. Individual actions can be very odd, (such as spending a lot of money slabbing comics just to look at them, or for god's sake, reslabbing for a scratch in the slab!) also doesn't mean that the MAJORITY of people do the same thing. I also never claimed that 99 percent number. What I said was 90 percent AT THE TIME were sold via Ebay, which is not debatable, and documented. The impact of the emergence of Ebay on comic collecting can't be overstated. The hobby was dying, until this marketing method came about and grew the hobby to what it eventually became today. CGC, and eventually CBCS, came into existence to solve the grading problem with internet selling and buying, which AT THE TIME was through Ebay. What is a facetious argument is why anybody would spend a lot of money slabbing a comic they own to have it "verified" or "checked for restoration" or whatever excuse, just to look at it and then take to the grave? Honestly, foolish spending is the third leg of the tripod that keeps the collecting industry from falling down, but it doesn't prove anything by itself. People waste money for all kinds of reasons. And, if you'll note, the original post stated "from a purely investment perspective" so your odd reasons for slabbing don't apply here. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Definition of scarcity : the quality or state of being scarce Definition of supply : the act or process of filling a want or need engaged in the supply of raw materials to industry : the quantities of goods or services offered for sale at a particular time or at one price : something that maintains or constitutes a supply Now after reading these literal definitions is it a bit more clear that scarcity and supply are seperate entities ? Scarcity is created by demand and lack of supply, whereas supply is the amount provided to start with, nevermind extemporaneous factors. Lets take this statement first..."If anybody decides they can justify slabbing for the purpose of "preserving" (yes, protecting is the same thing) comics, then they haven't done enough investigating. Using 35 cents worth of mylar snugs and buffered backing boards is actually a cost effective and proven method of preservation (has worked for me for over 4 decades) compared to slabbing at 100 times that cost. " Noone said that slabbing was the most cost efficient, you are attempting to shift the argument to fit your own statements.....people justify the more expensive approach all the time, hene why we have limos and acuras......luxury hotels and Days Inn. The cheapest isnt always the most desired for some people....trying to imply that because you chose the cheapest route is best for all is rubbish. You then doubled down by stating that " Your claim of dozens of years of preservation proof doesn't hold up since CGC only started 19 years ago (and the original cases kind of sucked). And slabbing IS a better way than polybags in a cardboard box, but its by far not the best method. And just because a few people are foolish for wasting their money that way doesn't prove your point either. " Show me where I said there was evidence for slabbing past 19 years ago please.....I stated Aside from that archival preservation science are hardly new and the processes involved are rather well understood and have been for dozens of years. You do have to understand at some point the Library of Congress has grappled with these same and various issues for a hundred years or more in preserving and protecting our most valuable and key documents, books and art right? You sort of have to get that while slabbing is new to the comic community as in the past twenty years the knowledge involved....acids, decay, rates of absorption, sunlight damage, methods for interferring with those processes are rather well understood and have been for a long long time and when slabbing was designed it takes into account that knowledge, and those realizations to produce a method that does the best job possible protecting the book, while retaining afforability, portability and style. You do get that right? It isnt like we are test driving some super rare semi sonic collider project in deep space.....the science of comic preservation and protection is fairly well understood and factors in the way these comics are slabbed. You are either not paying attention or attempting to erect straw man arguments that you can then attack. Either way and in both cases thats a fail, sorry. It is rude, offensive and rather obvious. "Individual actions can be very odd, (such as spending a lot of money slabbing comics just to look at them, or for god's sake, reslabbing for a scratch in the slab!) also doesn't mean that the MAJORITY of people do the same thing. "....but...who are you to judge? its their comics, and their money...and right. You are entitled to your opinion...others are too. slamming them for it is pretentious " I also never claimed that 99 percent number. What I said was 90 percent AT THE TIME were sold via Ebay, which is not debatable, and documented. The impact of the emergence of Ebay on comic collecting can't be overstated. The hobby was dying, until this marketing method came about and grew the hobby to what it eventually became today. CGC, and eventually CBCS, came into existence to solve the grading problem with internet selling and buying, which AT THE TIME was through Ebay. " It is debateable, it is documented and those of us who were part of it know you are incorrect. Stating it is not debateable hardly proves a thing ...and is dismissive at best. The impact of the emergence of ebay on comic collecting has to be weighed vs the negatives it has given, fraudulent sellers, damaged books, and many other issues. It certainly is not and was nver the all saving grace of collecting and I challenge you to provide statistics that back it up...since both now and then cons, secondary sales avenues and brick and mortar operations constitute a far larger slice of pie than ebay serves or ever has. If you collected forty years you know fully well this hobby has never been dying in that time span...the early nineties saw the implosion of new books sales, and mass production induced problems, but it only strengthened the back issue market in particular. The market was due for adjustment, with so much speculation driven buying happening.The hobby has a solid track history back to the seventies and was never "dying"....creating melodramatics doesnt help the case. Why do people sculpt? Why do others paint? Why do some collect barbed wire? Why do some hoard happy meals toys? Do you think the answer is always profit and they are stupid people otherwise? People are driven by dozens of different criteria and needs and you are not that one person who gets to judge if its stupid or a good use of their time and effort....if people want to slab a book so they can admire it better with no concept of making a fast buck that is their and for that matter my right.... |
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 Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @poka Quote: Originally Posted by poka Agreed. A profit at least $100 to cover the grading fees, postage, selling fees and your own time. |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Supply and Demand are variables. The level of scarcity is a function of supply and demand, it's not a third variable. Once you've stated supply and demand, scarcity is redundant. Just saying. |
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