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Detective Comics 359 CBCS 9.2 - Trying to figure out the timeline.9681

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I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort they wanted a 12K book instead of a 10K book, they did get a higher grade after all, but the restored label did them in. This still leaves the mystery of why they didnt resubmit to CBCS-if they did restore it-and I see no indication of that-the slight edge difference could be the result of different scanners, different slabs, placed in well slightly differently-then why not at least roll the dice and try resubmitting to CBCS? why would they roll the dice? they got a higher grade like they wanted. I think they overestimated the market for restored books and got stung. again, that's the only thing that makes sense. Oh, they could just be crazy, forgot about that possibility.
	6 years ago	Post 101 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.07K	60.07K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways.
	6 years ago	Post 102 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? still irrelevant. you could not dupe the checkered blemish if you tried for years if not ever. lastly why would you???!!!!
	6 years ago	Post 103 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Then why wouldnt they resubmit to CBCS hoping they would miss it?
	6 years ago	Post 104 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. That's what i said! you probably just stated it better. kudos.
	6 years ago	Post 105 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort still irrelevant. you could not dupe the checkered blemish if you tried for years if not ever. lastly why would you???!!!! Well it's relevant to see if he really has the evidence he is stating-I would like to know what the 'other blemishes' are.
	6 years ago	Post 106 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Then why wouldnt they resubmit to CBCS hoping they would miss it? overestimated market for restored books.
	6 years ago	Post 107 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Then why wouldnt they resubmit to CBCS hoping they would miss it? overestimated market for restored books. as i mentioned it could be a completely different cover the checkerboard stain cannot be duplicated so everything else is moot.
	6 years ago	Post 108 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Then why wouldnt they resubmit to CBCS hoping they would miss it? overestimated market for restored books. Even though a 5 minute perusal of ebay would clarify this? A collector of 10K books not knowing this? I cant buy that.
	6 years ago	Post 109 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.09K	80.09K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Then why wouldnt they resubmit to CBCS hoping they would miss it? because he chose cgc hoping they'd miss it.
	6 years ago	Post 110 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Then why wouldnt they resubmit to CBCS hoping they would miss it? overestimated market for restored books. Even though a 5 minute perusal of ebay would clarify this? A collector of 10K books not knowing this? I cant buy that. finally, I agree with you. my theory was the best i could come up with (still the same book). my thinking is that even if he didn't overestimate it (like you believe) he probably figured that CBCS would catch his obvious resto (no reason not to think that) and cut his losses, still expecting to get more that the crap money he got. these are all guesses on my part from the little evidence there is but i have not heard a better theory.
	6 years ago	Post 111 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort finally, I agree with you. my theory was the best i could come up with (still the same book). my thinking is that even if he didn't overestimate it (like you believe) he probably figured that CBCS would catch his obvious resto (no reason not to think that) and cut his losses, still expecting to get more that the crap money he got. these are all guesses on my part from the little evidence there is but i have not heard a better theory. No theories are good but this is the best one.
	6 years ago	Post 112 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? The white lines at the bottom center to the left of Batgirl's foot.
	6 years ago	Post 113 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? The white lines at the bottom center to the left of Batgirl's foot. cannot duplicate the checkerboard stain ever (try it with anything). so no matter what the discrepancies, even if it changed to a 3d cover it is still the same checkerboard stain in both pictures.
	6 years ago	Post 114 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Your theory is the most probable.
	6 years ago	Post 115 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Your theory is the most probable. hey? that's my theory! i'm hurt... actualy it just validates my theory since we both came to the same conclusion.
	6 years ago	Post 116 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? The white lines at the bottom center to the left of Batgirl's foot. cannot duplicate the checkerboard stain ever (try it with anything). so no matter what the discrepancies, even if it changed to a 3d cover it is still the same checkerboard stain in both pictures. The nature of the ink stain is identical. We are in agreement on that. We disagree on the possibility that the same ink stain could occur on two books if someone was swiping a stack with a marker at the same time. We also disagree that they are the same book if one has a 3D cover and the other is "not 3D".
	6 years ago	Post 117 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? The white lines at the bottom center to the left of Batgirl's foot. Um those look like scratches on slab. Hardly some kind of smoking gun.
	6 years ago	Post 118 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? The white lines at the bottom center to the left of Batgirl's foot. cannot duplicate the checkerboard stain ever (try it with anything). so no matter what the discrepancies, even if it changed to a 3d cover it is still the same checkerboard stain in both pictures. The nature of the ink stain is identical. We are in agreement on that. We disagree on the possibility that the same ink stain could occur on two books if someone was swiping a stack with a marker at the same time. We also disagree that they are the same book if one has a 3D cover and the other is "not 3D". correct except that if the 3d cover had the same checkerboard with the exactly the same stain allowing the same amount of white to show through the stain (which it does) at least the checkerboard piece would be one and the same (that's the point). therefore in this case SAME BOOK. Sorry fellas I can't play with you guys anymore I gotta get back to work (lunch is over) Had a great time though. Still SAME BOOK. for the record, no hard feelings I like this debate thing. i do admit, I like it better when i'm right. thanks all.
	6 years ago	Post 119 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Your theory is the most probable. hey? that's my theory! i'm hurt... actualy it just validates my theory since we both came to the same conclusion. I didn't say your theory was wrong. I am simply unwilling to assert it as irrefutable fact based upon the evidence provided.
	6 years ago	Post 120 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.41K	31.41K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	If we assume this to be the same book in both scans ...and in all likelihood it is... then we must address the grading discrepancies and that is where things get dicey. First, we have to be absolutely sure that trimming on this book really exists. The only way to do that is compare it with several other known samples of the same book to determine whether the cut is production or not. Just because a CGC grader claims it’s a trimmed book doesn’t necessarily make it so. Color touch should be much easier to identify without additional comparisons. Also, it’s a grey area for both grading services. If the color touch is very minor, it may sidestep receiving a restored label. Occasionally, very minor color touch or glue can occasionally get a pass as restoration. It’s a judgment call. Over on the CGC boards debate over this book is pretty partisan. It has the appearance of the “aha, gotcha” defensive posturing favoring their grading service over the nearest competition. I made the reasonable argument that no grading service gets it right 100% of the time using the example of CBCS catching slight restoration on a CGC graded book I submitted for cracking and re-encapsulation that had previously received a CGC blue label. Of course I wasn’t happy about receiving the CBCS restored label even though the apparent grade went up slightly. That said, it wasn’t the fault of CBCS that CGC missed the restoration when they graded it earlier. Naturally I felt that even with a slight grade bump the restored label ...however slight... would impact the book’s value by at least 50%. Fortunately, I had the wherewithal to ask if the minor restoration was fixable. It turned out that the restoration could be removed without further damage to the book and with the third re-holder the book ended up receiving a CBCS universal blue label without loss of grade.
	6 years ago	Post 121 • IP flag post

Collector 14.75K	14.75K X51 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by Kav Quote: Originally Posted by X51 If the comics were aligned evenly in a stack, tilted backwards, with even pressure applied to a marker, it is possible. Your reasoning is compelling, but some other blemishes disappeared and I would not rely upon a photograph to make that final decision. What other blemishes disappeared? The white lines at the bottom center to the left of Batgirl's foot. Um those look like scratches on slab. Hardly some kind of smoking gun. That too is a valid theory. Without inspecting the book personally, the evidence is inconclusive in my opinion.
	6 years ago	Post 122 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by X51 That too is a valid theory. Without inspecting the book personally, the evidence is inconclusive in my opinion. Yep. We really dont have enough info to go further with this-everything that can be said, has been said.
	6 years ago	Post 123 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Kav private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I hereby summon...THE BEYONDER
	6 years ago	Post 124 • IP flag post

Collector 14	14 THE_BEYONDER private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 10
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Elementary my dear....
	6 years ago	Post 125 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	I tend to agree that it is the same book, trimmed and color touched by the buyer, regraded by CGC and sold for a loss. However ... Quote: Originally Posted by Buzzetta The CGC version of this book was graded after that as the notes indicate a grade date of April, 2019. If you can look up the notes to get a date, why not share the rest of the notes?? That single factor has me convinced that it is because CGC does not note the grease pen. This whole discussion of "is it the same book or not" is pretty much squashed if they do. So the fact that the notes have not been shared tells me that it is not mentioned. Therefore, did CGC miss something as obvious as a grease pen??? Or was it removed?? I have worked with grease pens in the automotive market and I'm 99.9% positive that chemicals are needed to remove them. If you don't use chemicals, you'd need to do some serious scraping.
	6 years ago	Post 126 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.07K	60.07K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by THE_BEYONDER Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Elementary my dear.... Nice to see you, Chris. I hope everything is going well for you. Cheers.
	6 years ago	Post 127 • IP flag post

Collector 14	14 THE_BEYONDER private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Quote: Originally Posted by THE_BEYONDER Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Elementary my dear.... Nice to see you, Chris. I hope everything is going well for you. Cheers. Miss you too bud
	6 years ago	Post 128 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.07K	60.07K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Your theory is the most probable. hey? that's my theory! i'm hurt... actualy it just validates my theory since we both came to the same conclusion. Sorry. I just skimmed the thread. You're welcome to the credit.
	6 years ago	Post 129 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 20.77K	20.77K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Quote: Originally Posted by sportshort Quote: Originally Posted by X51 Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson It's the same book cracked out of the CBCS holder, micro-trimmed, color touched, and resubmitted to the cgc hoping they would miss it like they did with the Ewert books years ago. That explains why the submitter to the cgc isn't raising holy hell after losing thousands on a cpr that went completely sideways. Your theory is the most probable. hey? that's my theory! i'm hurt... actualy it just validates my theory since we both came to the same conclusion. Sorry. I just skimmed the thread. You're welcome to the credit. Nope, here's the great thing about coming to the same conclusion independently, It helps validate our theory. thanks!
	6 years ago	Post 130 • IP flag post

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