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Looks like cbcs missed one..9298

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Collector 3.04K	3.04K moodswing private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk Quote: Originally Posted by Gaard Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk I've had no problems with CBCS so far, but granted, I've only just sent in my second group of comics. It's easy to make mistakes, especially when trying to increase turn around time (just MHO) I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, I'd react the same way if this happened to one of my books! What's this mean? You doubt CBCS made a mistake? That's not what I mean at all. Mistakes happen, and CBCS should fix it. I would imagine, based on my limited experiences so far, that they would do just that if contacted. Seems kind of silly to post that story just for the sake of ragging on CBCS when it was most likely an oversight that can and would be rectified. Post a story ragging on cbcs? It this is true, it puts into question their actual grading process. This is just not a simple oversight. We may have a case were several graders did not do their job. Not one employee but according to the site 3. That is a complete breakdown in the system. I can understand missing restoration but to grade a modern comic and not actually examine the comic first doesn't look good for the company. Hopefully, we get some clarity to this. Maybe there is a stain or something wrong with the interior. I would assume to get that grade there would have to be a major defect. Obviously, it will take them time to formulate a response. They will have to do some internal investigations. Too bad we don't have the actual owner of the comic on the board. He could provide much needed information.
	6 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

Collector 3.04K	3.04K moodswing private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'm surprised that no one has considered the option that this could be a data entry error (a typo). I BELIEVE that each grader's notes are in the computer. Maybe all three agreed it was 9.9 and when it was entered they hit the 5 twice instead of the 9. Then it just needs to get past QC (which we know happens). To me, that seems a more likely scenario than three graders messing up. Edit - I also meant to say that I'm sure each graders notes on this book can be retrieved and reviewed. I'm sure they will be if they can. Didn't think of that, totally possible. But I do think the owner of the comic described the grader notes and they matched the "artwork".
	6 years ago	Post 52 • IP flag post

Collector 2.12K	2.12K Wraith private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'm surprised that no one has considered the option that this could be a data entry error (a typo). I BELIEVE that each grader's notes are in the computer. Maybe all three agreed it was 9.9 and when it was entered they hit the 5 twice instead of the 9. Then it just needs to get past QC (which we know happens). To me, that seems a more likely scenario than three graders messing up. Edit - I also meant to say that I'm sure each graders notes on this book can be retrieved and reviewed. I'm sure they will be if they can. I thought about this ( mistaking the grade ) But then there are graders notes describing all the 'flaws' ... those were coincidentally mistyped also ? The cynic in me puts money on grading scans .. would explain the big reductions in reported turn around time recently.
	6 years ago	Post 53 • IP flag post

I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! 20.84K	20.84K Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	There is this wonderful tool in the industry called "Root Cause Analysis". Don't you think this "situation" is worthy of CBCS doing that and putting in the proper corrective action? I dunno - I see this all the time where folks guess at potential causes and it's kinda scary. That's how nonsense begins and stuff gets blown up out of proportion
	6 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. 103.9K	103.9K esaravo private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	That 5.5 grade could have been merited. Whether any company would ever admit it or not, Modern books are held to much higher standards than older books. So a Modern with a few spine ticks that break color and several bends (actual ones) could conceivably get a 5.5. Or, as someone has mentioned, it could have been an error when the final grade was typed in. But we will probably never know.
	6 years ago	Post 55 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.2K	60.2K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 There is this wonderful tool in the industry called "Root Cause Analysis". Don't you think this "situation" is worthy of CBCS doing that and putting in the proper corrective action? I dunno - I see this all the time where folks guess at potential causes and it's kinda scary. That's how nonsense begins and stuff gets blown up out of proportion That never happens around here... or in this hobby.
	6 years ago	Post 56 • IP flag post

I have a problem with fattening women up. 40.31K	40.31K Bronte private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	One of the reasons CBCS may be "dragging their feet" is because they are waiting for the accuser to return the book to them. My thoughts are, if that individual doesnt return the book, CBCS cant definitively say what happened right or wrong.
	6 years ago	Post 57 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Quote: Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 There is this wonderful tool in the industry called "Root Cause Analysis". Don't you think this "situation" is worthy of CBCS doing that and putting in the proper corrective action? I dunno - I see this all the time where folks guess at potential causes and it's kinda scary. That's how nonsense begins and stuff gets blown up out of proportion That never happens around here... or in this hobby. LOL!!!! The point of a typo and the grader's notes is a good one. But it still could be a data entry problem. Perhaps that grade and notes were for another book. Maybe there is a 9.8 out there that looks like 5.5. Or maybe the notes accidentally got entered twice. I guess my point is that it is not necessarily the faults of the graders. And, as it has been pointed out, that could be the real grade. I have dropped stuff on comics and gotten noncolor breaking indents before. They are near impossible to see in scans or pictures except at an angle.
	6 years ago	Post 58 • IP flag post

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock 7.34K	7.34K Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Bronte One of the reasons CBCS may be "dragging their feet" is because they are waiting for the accuser to return the book to them. My thoughts are, if that individual doesnt return the book, CBCS cant definitively say what happened right or wrong. I get this, and it certainly is the cautious approach. Perhaps even the prudent approach. But if it were me, and I had graded it? I would be able to say definitively, right away, that it was not the "art" of the cover that affected the grade, that the comic was examined closely and thoroughly by three independent graders, and that it is impossible that all three were fooled by the cover. But the data entry issue that Jesse mentioned could be the problem. I don't know. It seems to me the likeliest cause is: the o.p. is just a lie, either meant to make CBCS look bad, or as a joke, meant to be funny but then got out of hand. It's a shame, though, that CBCS is so unsure of their own processes that they can't comment without more information. Where was the original post anyway? The one before the article in Bleeding Fool news?
	6 years ago	Post 59 • IP flag post

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
There is this wonderful tool in the industry called "Root Cause Analysis".

Don't you think this "situation" is worthy of CBCS doing that and putting in the proper corrective action?

I dunno - I see this all the time where folks guess at potential causes and it's kinda scary. That's how nonsense begins and stuff gets blown up out of proportion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drogio

They likely do have a system that has the ability to trace the grading back to the individuals involved. They’ll identify those involved internally, likely critique and determine a root cause and do their best to insure it’ll not happen again. The concern would be “where else could this have occurred and for how long?” once they find the root cause...we may never know that answer.

Noted.

6 years ago

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.2K	80.2K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 10
	Quote: Originally Posted by Tedsaid Quote: Originally Posted by Bronte One of the reasons CBCS may be "dragging their feet" is because they are waiting for the accuser to return the book to them. My thoughts are, if that individual doesnt return the book, CBCS cant definitively say what happened right or wrong. I get this, and it certainly is the cautious approach. Perhaps even the prudent approach. But if it were me, and I had graded it? I would be able to say definitively, right away, that it was not the "art" of the cover that affected the grade, that the comic was examined closely and thoroughly by three independent graders, and that it is impossible that all three were fooled by the cover. But the data entry issue that Jesse mentioned could be the problem. I don't know. It seems to me the likeliest cause is: the o.p. is just a lie, either meant to make CBCS look bad, or as a joke, meant to be funny but then got out of hand. It's a shame, though, that CBCS is so unsure of their own processes that they can't comment without more information. Where was the original post anyway? The one before the article in Bleeding Fool news? Not commenting when one doesn't have all the facts and evidence is not a lack of confidence in their processes. It's the smart thing to do.
	6 years ago	Post 61 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Paint_Monk private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by moodswing Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk Quote: Originally Posted by Gaard Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk I've had no problems with CBCS so far, but granted, I've only just sent in my second group of comics. It's easy to make mistakes, especially when trying to increase turn around time (just MHO) I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, I'd react the same way if this happened to one of my books! What's this mean? You doubt CBCS made a mistake? That's not what I mean at all. Mistakes happen, and CBCS should fix it. I would imagine, based on my limited experiences so far, that they would do just that if contacted. Seems kind of silly to post that story just for the sake of ragging on CBCS when it was most likely an oversight that can and would be rectified. Post a story ragging on cbcs? It this is true, it puts into question their actual grading process. This is just not a simple oversight. We may have a case were several graders did not do their job. Not one employee but according to the site 3. That is a complete breakdown in the system. I can understand missing restoration but to grade a modern comic and not actually examine the comic first doesn't look good for the company. Hopefully, we get some clarity to this. Maybe there is a stain or something wrong with the interior. I would assume to get that grade there would have to be a major defect. Obviously, it will take them time to formulate a response. They will have to do some internal investigations. Too bad we don't have the actual owner of the comic on the board. He could provide much needed information. Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, but I'm not going to throw CBCS in the PGX category until this incident is fully explained. As to "putting into question their actual grading proces" I think that's a little over dramatic. Let's hear how the situation is resolved - every company has bad employees from time to time who don't do their job - it's how the company handles the problem that should be either criticized or applauded. Yes, this is obviously a BIG mistake. But no company is perfect nor do they warrant harsh criticism unless they sweep the issue under the rug or do not address it.
	6 years ago	Post 62 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by Tedsaaid Where was the original post anyway? The one before the article in Bleeding Fool news? I don't know if it was the first post, but he shared it in the CBCS Comic Collectors Club Facebook page lat last Thursday night. This was well before the BleedingCool article. In regards to the seller, he is an established comic book dealer. He stated that this was his first CBCS submission and has submitted to CGC many times. He also has multiple signed copies of this book. Whether he set CBCS up, didn't look close enough to the copy he sent in or if CBCS screwed up, is still in the air in my mind.
	6 years ago	Post 63 • IP flag post

Collector 747	747 robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk Where was the original post anyway? The one before the article in Bleeding Fool news? clickable text
	6 years ago	Post 64 • IP flag post

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock 7.34K	7.34K Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by GAC Quote: Originally Posted by Tedsaid It's a shame, though, that CBCS is so unsure of their own processes that they can't comment without more information. Not commenting when one doesn't have all the facts and evidence is not a lack of confidence in their processes. It's the smart thing to do. No, I think you and I are in agreement there. What I meant is, it's a shame CBCS needs additional information, before they can definitively state that Bleeding Fool is wrong that the art is to blame. It's a shame that they don't already know this couldn't happen; that their processes were such that it's actually within the realm of the possible that three different graders decided, independently, to cut corners and not actually do their job. I reckon if that weren't the case, if they were more certain in the system of checks and balances that they created, and they were more certain that they protected their people from the pressure to do more, faster, then they would already know it wasn't a problem with the actual grading, but just a simple label error. But they don't. And so "through an abundance of caution," as they say, they won't comment at this time. Anyway, I just read the o.p. for the first time, and it doesn't sound at all like a set-up, and it doesn't sound fake. But still, I would bet a lot of money it isn't due to graders just grading it through the bag, and not taking the book out. CBCS needs to address that aspect very soon. More likely, as someone said, they mixed the label up with a different book. The o.p. says the variant artist listed on the label is the wrong person, too. And this: "The grader notes simply don’t match."
	6 years ago	Post 65 • IP flag post

Joined The Club 3.61K	3.61K Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'm surprised that no one has considered the option that this could be a data entry error (a typo). I BELIEVE that each grader's notes are in the computer. Maybe all three agreed it was 9.9 and when it was entered they hit the 5 twice instead of the 9. Then it just needs to get past QC (which we know happens). To me, that seems a more likely scenario than three graders messing up. Edit - I also meant to say that I'm sure each graders notes on this book can be retrieved and reviewed. I'm sure they will be if they can. Lol if three people hit 5.5 instead of 9.9 everyone should be fired. What’s the odds of that happening in the first place
	6 years ago	Post 66 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by Steverogers11 Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'm surprised that no one has considered the option that this could be a data entry error (a typo). I BELIEVE that each grader's notes are in the computer. Maybe all three agreed it was 9.9 and when it was entered they hit the 5 twice instead of the 9. Then it just needs to get past QC (which we know happens). To me, that seems a more likely scenario than three graders messing up. Edit - I also meant to say that I'm sure each graders notes on this book can be retrieved and reviewed. I'm sure they will be if they can. Lol if three people hit 5.5 instead of 9.9 everyone should be fired. What’s the odds of that happening in the first place No, I believe there is only one person doing the final data entry. There are three graders, but only the final grade gets on the label. If that's the job of the finalizer or a separate data entry person, I don't know for certain. I believe I was told it was a separate data entry person that inputs all the final grades, but I could be wrong. Either way, someone has to enter it.
	6 years ago	Post 67 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Actually, I'm almost positive that there is a data entry person. I was told that the graders have a type of shorthand to keep track of their notes for a book. Someone would have to convert that shorthand and enter the data that we see.
	6 years ago	Post 68 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	This sample picture of the comic book must have been an earlier draft of the final version. The “distressed artwork” on the spine and corners are different on this sample picture than the actual comic that CBCS slabbed. The CBCS graded book looks to have less “distressed artwork” than the sample picture. It also has a “Forbidden Planet.com” added to the cover.
	6 years ago	Post 69 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck This sample picture of the comic book must have been an earlier draft of the final version. The “distressed artwork” on the spine and corners are different on this sample picture than the actual comic that CBCS slabbed. The CBCS graded book looks to have less “distressed artwork” than the sample picture. That caught my eye as well. The difference is that the top picture is the concept art, not the final art. I looked at several actual photos of the book to figure that out. Many eBay sellers use the stock concept art to sell copies.
	6 years ago	Post 70 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.2K	80.2K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Is it possible the Forbidden Planet variant has different stress art compared to others? otherwise, yes, that could be important to this concern.
	6 years ago	Post 71 • IP flag post

CBCS Pressing 19.76K	19.76K SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 24
	I have no knowledge of what's going on with this other than what I just read in this thread. The only relevant information here is that there is a book with a 5.5 grade. Everything else is speculation (complete with torches and pitchforks) on what happened. I would like think we have reached out to the customer requesting the book back so we can find out for sure what happened. Could the book really be a 5.5 grade? Sure it could. Once we have the book back, I'm sure the problem, wherever that lies, will be corrected. As for the speculation; the graders are absolutely not using scans. As far as the notes go, they carry over from the first grader to the last. The first grader is usually the least experienced, and likely the source of where those notes (if they're wrong) came from. The finalizer has to sift through the info given to them from the prior graders on each individual book, delete what's irrelevant, add what was overlooked, and make a call on the grade based on the information given to him from the other people who have touched that book. Once we have the book back, the powers that be will take care of it, but not until then. I'm sure everyone understands the reluctance of an "official" comment until that happens.
	6 years ago	Post 72 • IP flag post

Collector 25.63K	25.63K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by SteveRicketts As for the speculation; the graders are absolutely not using scans. just playing devil's advocate - while that is the process would it not be speculation that it has absolutely not happen in this case until CBCS got the book back and/or has assessed what happend?
	6 years ago	Post 73 • IP flag post

CBCS Pressing 19.76K	19.76K SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 12
	Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your torch party. Do you need a light?
	6 years ago	Post 74 • IP flag post

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock 7.34K	7.34K Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Quote: Originally Posted by SteveRicketts Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your torch party. Do you need a light? No, CBCS is very good at providing lights and kindling themselves.
	6 years ago	Post 75 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Paint_Monk private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 8
	Quote: Originally Posted by Tedsaid Quote: Originally Posted by SteveRicketts Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your torch party. Do you need a light? No, CBCS is very good at providing lights and kindling themselves. Please give CBCS a chance to get to the bottom of this. I know the internet gives everyone a chance to knee-jerk react to anything that angers or freaks them out, but please, folks, let's allow them a chance to explain what happened and handle it before people start jumping to conclusions. The worst thing about the internet is that public opinion can reach a "torch and pitchfork level" before it's even warranted. Think about how you'd want to see things handled if YOU were the one who made a mistake. And I'm sure it wouldn't be with people bashing you or your credibility on social media.
	6 years ago	Post 76 • IP flag post

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock 7.34K	7.34K Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 5
	Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk Please give CBCS a chance to get to the bottom of this. I know the internet gives everyone a chance to knee-jerk react to anything that angers or freaks them out, but please, folks, let's allow them a chance to explain what happened and handle it before people start jumping to conclusions. The worst thing about the internet is that public opinion can reach a "torch and pitchfork level" before it's even warranted. Think about how you'd want to see things handled if YOU were the one who made a mistake. And I'm sure it wouldn't be with people bashing you or your credibility on social media. Hi, Paint_Monk. Thanks for your comment. I believe you missed my point, though. If CBCS is certain the books were examined by hand, then they should say that. I've never claimed to believe otherwise. My underlying point is the same as yours: people out there will pile on, and the impression is left long before the official comment is made. You have to push back on social media, forcefully, politely, and immediately, when your reputation is tarnished. Ignoring the comments and concern is just shooting yourself in the foot. And, it is worrisome that CBCS CAN'T immediately squash the speculation that their graders skipped the whole grading process and just eyeballed a comic through the bag. If they were sure, why on earth would they not say so right away?
	6 years ago	Post 77 • IP flag post

Collector 1.84K	1.84K Paint_Monk private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by Tedsaid Quote: Originally Posted by Paint_Monk Please give CBCS a chance to get to the bottom of this. I know the internet gives everyone a chance to knee-jerk react to anything that angers or freaks them out, but please, folks, let's allow them a chance to explain what happened and handle it before people start jumping to conclusions. The worst thing about the internet is that public opinion can reach a "torch and pitchfork level" before it's even warranted. Think about how you'd want to see things handled if YOU were the one who made a mistake. And I'm sure it wouldn't be with people bashing you or your credibility on social media. Hi, Paint_Monk. Thanks for your comment. I believe you missed my point, though. If CBCS is certain the books were examined by hand, then they should say that. I've never claimed to believe otherwise. My underlying point is the same as yours: people out there will pile on, and the impression is left long before the official comment is made. You have to push back on social media, forcefully, politely, and immediately, when your reputation is tarnished. Ignoring the comments and concern is just shooting yourself in the foot. And, it is worrisome that CBCS CAN'T immediately squash the speculation that their graders skipped the whole grading process and just eyeballed a comic through the bag. If they were sure, why on earth would they not say so right away? Hi, Tedsaid. I'm a newbie to CBCS and I'm limited to one submission and a second one now in the pipeline of many more comics. Please don't take my comments or thoughts as a criticism of you specifically or anyone else here who is concerned over this particular situation. Before I became a religious, I worked in online retail for awhile and was responsible for customer service issues much like this. Rest assured, I am not an employee of nor do I know anyone personally who works for CBCS. That being said, the internet can be the best friend of a company or its worst enemy. When a major issue arises, I have no doubt that management is running around trying to figure out how the heck something like this could happen - and I don't blame them for not issuing an immediate response. I am certain they are looking at all angles and will issue some sort of response once they've gotten to the bottom of what occurred. I think they are being very responsible by not speculating anything at this point, as even one small post of mistaken observation will result in even more harsh criticism of a situation I am sure they never wanted to happen in the first place. On the other hand, if they don't address this at some point in the immediate future, I think all of the frustrated responses and concern would be certainly warranted. Thanks for your polite and considerate response, and remember, this is just one monk's humble opinion.
	6 years ago	Post 78 • IP flag post

Collector 25.63K	25.63K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by SteveRicketts Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your torch party. Do you need a light? No - although I do miss those days. Where did you serve? just stating the obvious
	6 years ago	Post 79 • IP flag post

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Paint_Monk

Hi, Tedsaid. I'm a newbie to CBCS and I'm limited to one submission and a second one now in the pipeline of many more comics.

Welcome to the forum!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paint_Monk

Please don't take my comments or thoughts as a criticism of you specifically or anyone else here who is concerned over this particular situation.

I didn't, but I appreciate your clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paint_Monk
I have no doubt that management is running around trying to figure out how the heck something like this could happen - and I don't blame them for not issuing an immediate response.

I disagree. I think it is telling that they can't issue some sort of immediate response. But I'm okay that we disagree on that one. I understand why they would wait and gather more information; I just think that's wrongheaded.

6 years ago

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