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Comics Bronze AgeComics Restoration and ConservationGrading Help Needed

blunted gloss question929

Collector jmh722 private msg quote post Address this user
Hi,
I have a really pretty ASM 129 but there is loss of gloss around one of the staples. Can anyone tell me what that means? Is it rubbing? Water? Restoration?
Attaching a link to a photo.


https://www.dropbox.com/sc/m5474qqp386ptxa/AAAGtTovPGVWStbAjijAsz3xa


Thanks
Post 1 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Something rubbed it. Nothing you can do.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector jmh722 private msg quote post Address this user
But it's not restoration? That's my primary concern.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
The paper looks nice and white and the staple looks nice, so I don't think it's restored unless some kind of stain was erased.
Post 4 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Doesn't look to be restored, but I see an area that looks dull. Does look like an attempt to clean something off was made.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user
Which brings up another question: is just cleaning off a stain, spot of say, coffee, a speck of dirt or something like that considered "restoration"?
Your not necessarily attempting to bring back the gloss, replacing something missing or worn out, you are just trying to remove something that was not supposed to be there in the first place.
Post 6 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Restoration is adding, fixing, color touching etc...conservation is persevering an item, so lifting of dirts and soils, pressing.
Using items to clean a comic or paper item can remove gloss if used too heavily, such as absorene, wall paper eraser etc.
Often people use a common eraser on a comic and it may remove pencil or light soiling but inadvertently removes gloss leaving a worse problem than before.
Adding gloss back to an area, if it could be done, would be seen as restoration, as you are trying to bring it back to its original print state.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
Restoration is adding, fixing, color touching etc...conservation is persevering an item, so lifting of dirts and soils, pressing.


Pressing is conservation? LOL, that's a good one. I don't even think professional pressers would agree with that.

Edit for CGC definition...

"Conservation Repairs
Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1"."
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Collector SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user
@earthshaker01, Thanks! I've often wondered exactly what the differences between conservation and restoration are.
It seems like there are two things to be considered. There is a fine line between them and anything you might consider doing to the book itself, check with the professionals first and also let the professionals do the work.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
@earthshaker01, Thanks! I've often wondered exactly what the differences between conservation and restoration are.


This might belp...

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=4084
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user
@CCD, Wow! That's some great information and answers a lot of questions.
Post 11 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
@CCD the industry set the standard not me
Post 12 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
@SilverAgeFan Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
@earthshaker01, Thanks! I've often wondered exactly what the differences between conservation and restoration are.
It seems like there are two things to be considered. There is a fine line between them and anything you might consider doing to the book itself, check with the professionals first and also let the professionals do the work.

That's your best bet.
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
@earthshaker01, Thanks! I've often wondered exactly what the differences between conservation and restoration are.


This might belp...

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=4084

Oh no not another cgc article aren't those the guys with all the problems of late.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user
It would be interesting to see if CBCS Also has guidelines for restoration versus conservation. I'm sure they have something. I wonder if they would be willing to share it with us?
Post 15 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
This is from the CBCS faq section on the website.

"Before a comic book is graded, it is checked for restoration or conservation by our restoration detection experts. CBCS has separated conservation and a restoration into two different categories. If restoration or conservation is found, CBCS will include a list of all the work detected on the label, classifying it as either conserved or restored. CBCS has 5 levels of restoration; slight, slight to moderate, moderate, moderate to extensive, and extensive. The more restoration that is detected, the higher the restoration level becomes. Books that have both restoration and conservation will receive the restoration designation."
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
@CCD the industry set the standard not me


Did you see my edit and the CGC quote? CGC, who set the standard as you say, says that aesthetic repairs do not count as conservation. This includes pressing. Pressing is not conservation. The point is moot though because CGC doesn't identify pressing if done right.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
@earthshaker01, Thanks! I've often wondered exactly what the differences between conservation and restoration are.


This might belp...

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=4084

Oh no not another cgc article aren't those the guys with all the problems of late.


Steve Borock help set those standards so I don't see what the problem is. Those guidelines are spelled out better than CBCS' are, but since Steve was the president of both companies I think they'd line up pretty well.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you for the information Jesse. That helps explain a lot.
In essence, it seems like it boils down quite simply to if something is added to bring a book back to near pristine that is restoration, if something is removed to bring a book back to near pristine, that is conservation. There's an ongoing debate about pressing being restoration or not. Means going back to my earlier simple definition, you are removing something. Wrinkles, folds, bends and the like.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
Thank you for the information Jesse. That helps explain a lot.
In essence, it seems like it boils down quite simply to if something is added to bring a book back to near pristine that is restoration, if something is removed to bring a book back to near pristine, that is conservation.


I would say that definition does not work because you can add stuff to books and it's still conservation. The bottom of that CGC link i gave you explains. I thnk one of the main components of Conservation is that any work done can be undone without hurting the book.


Conservation Repairs

Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1".

Tear seals
Spine split seals
Reinforcement
Piece reattachment
Some cover or interior cleaning (water or solvent)
Staples cleaned or replaced
Some leaf casting
De-acidification

Materials Used for Conservation Repairs:

Rice paper
Wheat glue
Vintage staples
Archival tape
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user
@CCD, Thanks again! Once again that proves to me that I need to read very closely and pay very close attention.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
@CCD, Thanks again! Once again that proves to me that I need to read very closely and pay very close attention.


We all do! Misinformation is the bane of our hobby.
Post 22 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
There is a way to return some gloss to a book in small areas like you showed without detection. I have a relative who has been doing restoration for decades who gave me some insight. I'll get the details when I see her in a few weeks and if this subject comes up again I'll explain what I learn.
Post 23 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
@CCD, Thanks again! Once again that proves to me that I need to read very closely and pay very close attention.

I would not recommend restoring any book that doesn't have significant value. Most collectors treat restored.books like the plauge. If you do do it male sure it's worth the money it would cost and know that you might limit the amount of people who want to buy it.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector CCD private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
There is a way to return some gloss to a book in small areas like you showed without detection. I have a relative who has been doing restoration for decades who gave me some insight. I'll get the details when I see her in a few weeks and if this subject comes up again I'll explain what I learn.


That would be some great info, it would help the resto experts at CBCS detect it better.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCD
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
There is a way to return some gloss to a book in small areas like you showed without detection. I have a relative who has been doing restoration for decades who gave me some insight. I'll get the details when I see her in a few weeks and if this subject comes up again I'll explain what I learn.


That would be some great info, it would help the resto experts at CBCS detect it better.


Hope so. So unfortunate to hear people trying to deceive collectors.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector jmh722 private msg quote post Address this user
I'd love to hear how it's done too. Recently I had a resto issue with a less than scrupulous dealer.
Post 27 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthshaker01
There is a way to return some gloss to a book in small areas like you showed without detection. I have a relative who has been doing restoration for decades who gave me some insight. I'll get the details when I see her in a few weeks and if this subject comes up again I'll explain what I learn.


It is a rather simple process. Impossible to detect if done right.
Post 28 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Went and saw aunt (30+ year book restorer) She showed me what and how to use the product some artists use to put a gloss on their paintings. Its an acrylic medium, it comes in gloss and matte. Its easy to use, mainly to blend leather surfaces. Her specialty is extremely old books and documents.
With that being said. You wouldn't use it straight out of the bottle on a comic or magazine. There is a technique she taught me last week that seemed to work superbly on some old magazines I had. Another issue is the older you go on a book, magszine, or comic you need to research what type of paper and if the book even had gloss on it or not when originally made. Obviously newer comics are glossy and on the mags we did it on it was quite easy and not detectable even uder a black light or other lights and angles.
It's not appropriate to explain how to use it or the techniques when applying it for a variety of reasons. One being I wouldn't want to have someone try it and screw up their books. Second, it's best done by a professional to insure it's done properly as application involves quantity applied, thinning of material to be applied, room temp to make a smoothing affect, so it's not standing out like a sore thumb once dry etc...For me it was easy to learn because of who taught me, but it's not just as simple as slapping it on and calling it good.
Lastly people have businesses to restore books and conserve them so I wouldn't want to take business away from people who put the time in to learn restoration techniques.
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Collector jmh722 private msg quote post Address this user
So if done right, you wouldn't be able to determine it anyway?
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