Incentive Variants: How they work.913
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Kanaloa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't like multiple variants either but it may be only way to keep cover artists employed. Print runs used to be larger. Enough to go around for cover artists. Today, in order to keep cover artists employed they need multiple variants. Without them at least half of cover artists would not exist. I do think there are too many variants though and it will bite back eventually. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Kanaloa Let me know if I am wrong, but Scottie Young is one of these? He'd be better off doing real work |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MetalPSI Well though they might encourage the same behaviours the big difference is that you have a concrete number for how many there are in existence. With you average retailer incentive variant the number is based on many factors that very few to no one my be privy to save the publisher employees, such as order numbers and promotional, error, damage print over runs that make it hard to pin down just how many are out there. (Are there more than x number or less? Who knows for sure isn't talking.) |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MetalPSI Retailer Incentives are the ones with 1:25 etc. The store must order XX number of regulars to order 1 copy variant. Retailer Exclusives are where the variant is only available from the retailer, like Midtown, Aspen, Dynamic Forces, and the prints are usually declared ahead of time. | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Can someone cite me an example of each? Show me a regular issue, then a retailer exclusive and a retailer incentive of that same issue. I apologize for being thick | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego So like a virgin cover variant that is exclusive to a signing OP for example? | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MetalPSI yeah, sometimes there can be signing exclusives, I'd say those will typically fall under the Retailer Exclusive umbrella. Dynamic Forces does a lot of signed exclusives. | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego Yeah I am very familiar with DF, have a few, which is where my train of thought was | ||
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MetalPSI  Regular cover  Retailer incentive  Retailer Exclusive all of Transformers #1 (2009 series) |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Studley_Dudley Thank you sir, as always a gentleman and scholar. Now out of those, the one that is a) Hardest to get and b) Rarest, or lowest print run, would be the Retailer exclusive? Can there be multiple retailer exclusives for one issue? |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My understanding is that IDW requires an order of 1000 copies in order to commission an exclusive. So, usually that's the print run for the exclusives. And, yes, there can be more than one exclusive for a particular issue. The example I showed has two. One from Graham Crackers and one from New Dimension Comics. The retailer incentive books for IDW are usually 1:10, but occasionally there are 1:25 and 1:50 incentive covers. In the last few years, it's only been 1:10 (at least for Transformers because I collect that). However, there is a known instance of a book being solicited as a 1:10 incentive cover and it was supposed to be a 1:25. Apparently, some stores were hosed by that gaffe. In my experience it's a crapshoot on which is more rare. For a long time I couldn't find the incentive cover to Transformers #1, but lately I have seen more. Conversely, some exclusives are pretty common to come by on the Internet, but some like the Transformers #9 Auto Assembly exclusive are damn near impossible to find. I've seen one for sale in the last 13 months. So, it just depends, but Transformers has a relatively low print run compared to the Big Two publishers. |
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For the Harley's, DC mandated that retailers order at least 1.5K B&W and 3K color. They also required that Harley's "New" head be used (which is why you saw a Franken-Harley on the Aspen Puddin' Pack edition) | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oxbladder That book was a 1 in 4 variant; that is, for every 4 copies of Uncanny X-Men that a retailer ordered, they would receive 3 copies of the regular, and 1 of the variant. However...I checked out my copy of Previews from that month, and there's no mention of any variant cover for the book. In fact, I checked all the way to Mar, 2004 and Superman #205, with the Turner cover, and there's no mention of the variant there, either. 1997 was the year that Marvel established the "2 for #2" variant program, that is, each new regular #2 of a title would have two covers, in a 50/50 split, and those are all (or almost all) listed as being available to order from Previews at least from June of 1998. The listing of X-Men #354 doesn't show anything, but, of course, that isn't proof, as the other variants (#2s) from 1997 and early 1998 don't show in Previews, either. In fact, because this was during the "Distributor Wars", Marvel doesn't even show up in Previews for much of this timeframe. What I'd really like to see is a retailer order form. That would give us more information. If the #354 variant is not available to order by retailers, then it is not a retailer incentive. I'm speaking specifically of the incentive variant program, not the rewards programs of the past, though that was certainly the ancestor of this program. The rewards programs of the past did not incentivize retailers to order more product at the time to place orders. In most cases, they were a complete surprise to the retailers, as a "thank you" for supporting the publisher's products. That was the case with books like Spiderman #1 platinum, Venom Lethal Protector #1 Gold, etc. For example: Prophet #4 (1994) was, apparently, a "surprise" variant, also a 1 in 4. Retailers had no idea it was coming until it actually showed up. That's how it worked back then. Giving retailers rewards FOR ordering isn't the same thing as giving them incentives TO order. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Image also requires 1,000 copies to commission a variant. | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JLS_Comics I think you have those flipped, the Black & Whites gave the lesser numbers. |
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Whoops! Ninja edit on that post in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To try to answer one of Metal's questions, if an issue contains both RIs and REs, how to determine which is the more rare? It can often times be difficult to determine because the publishers are not sharing all the print run data with the public for regular covers and RIs. For REs, like the Aspen Batman #1, we know they printed 3,000 of the color and I think 1,500 of the sketch. I believe all the other retailers like Lagacy, Bulletproof, Hastings publicized there numbers as well. It makes it easier for determining rarity when dealing with these known numbers. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks for the info guys | ||
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| star wars variants for #1 are astronomically ridiculous. | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke I have documented 88 variants to Star Wars #1, there could be more. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Do they do this after they have already sold 1000 copies? What factors determines how many copies of a issue they will print? |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Thank you for posting this. I have often wondered where the "Gold" editions and examples like the B&W edition of Xmen #25 come from |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MetalPSI for Retailer Exclusives, the number they order/print is entirely negotiated between the retailer and the publisher. I assume each publisher has different requirements. | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DarthLego So for instance, Wal Mart will put in a order for a stack of books, to cover certain stores, and that is the determined "print run" for that variant? | ||
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm not sure if WalMart has done exclusives. Let's use Hastings as an example. They will make a deal with say DC to do X,000 color of a Tyler Kirkham Batman cover and X,000 of a b&w version. Those numbers are set and only Hastings sells those covers. Now if it's an incentive, let's say 1:100, the deal is Hastings is allowed to buy 1 variant for every 100 regular they buy. But this deal is not exclusive, any retailers with Diamond accounts can participate. |
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JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| and for other books, a retailer has to by X number of a random title to qualify for the retail incentive books. It's not just that they have to order, they need to exceed a pre-set threshold: It can be in excess of 125%, 150% or even 200% of previous orders books. | ||
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Hmm missed this post. Thanks for looking back. I think you underestimate the effects rewards could have on a retailer's purchasing behaviors. While it may not increase a particular title or issue giving them is a means of ensuring the numbers don't drop. It could be they were just being kind but, really, do you believe that any more than I do  ? It's all marketing to get or maintain "good business".Yeah it would be good to look back on the retailer order forms. For more than just discussing this topic Thanks again for the posting this I appreciate it.  |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JLS_Comics Yeah, different publishers have different requirements, which can make determination of rarity even more murky. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Anyone else feel that it's just stupidly out of hand? Why can't a retailer just approach the publisher and say, I would like x amount of books for my store, would it be possible to get x amount of incentives for the store based on soandso's art work. EG. Say Hastings buys issues for all their stores. Say they have a 1000 stores and incentivize their employees to sell all their stock for that issue, and if they do so, they get x number of retailer exclusives. Say those exclusives are a different cover, done by a popular artist instead of the usual artist. If each store has 10 exclusives, that's a 10,000 print run right there. Say the book itself isn't all that popular and only has a 100,000 print run. That's a 1:10 incentive? |
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The incentive is designed to encourage stores to order more copies from Diamond. Stores typically will only order what they think they can sell, they don't like carrying extended inventory. The incentive covers can be sold at higher prices than cover price, which makes the store more money, which is an incentive for them to order more copies to get those incentives, which is more money to the publisher. Everybody wins. A 1:10 would mean the store must order 10 regulars to get 1 variant. So if the order 1000, they get 100 variants. The actual print runs are determined by the publisher (DC, Marvel, etc.) and they don't share that info publicly. |
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