Incentive Variants: How they work.913
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So, I figured this would be a good place to discuss the hot topic of incentive variants, what they are, where they come from, and how they work. Please note: this isn't a personal discussion, so please be courteous to everyone and keep any and all personal commentary out of it. This isn't about any person; this is about incentive variants. This thread is intended to be a scholarly discussion about the topic, where everyone can learn and share research that they have. |
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Collector
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JWKyle I'm not quite sure where they would come from (though, yes, if a particular entity has a quantity of particularly rare books, they're going to want to keep that under wraps as long as they can.) It's certainly possible that incentive variants, because they're in manageable quantities, could go back to the publishers for them to deal with (and, for some books that are handed out by the publishers at special events, that's certainly true.) I suspect that this is what happens: 1. Certain of the incentive variants are printed in quantities in excess of that needed to fulfill orders, and the addition are held by the publishers, to hand out to retailers or others at special events. This has been the case many times, as at the Diamond Summit at Baltimore and at SDCC. 2. Certain of the incentive variants are printed in quantities in excess of that needed to fulfill orders, and occasionally sold after the fact by Diamond to retailers directly, at discount prices (this happens frequently.) 3. Certain of the incentive variants are printed in quantities in excess of that needed to fulfill orders, and what is left over is (gasp) destroyed after a period of time to make room for other things. 4. Certain of the incentive variants are printed in quantities needed to fulfill orders (most likely for those which are needed in quantities of 1,000 or more), and distributed at the time of release, resulting in few, or no, copies left over. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Store owner buys 10 copies of something from the diamond catalog for her/his store order. She/he gets 1 incentive variant. They now sell it for $10 (wrongly) instead of cover price on the rack like they are supposed to. This is how the variant market surged past retail store owners demands and expectations. Same principle works on a 1:25 cover, 1:100 cover, and so on. Most are priced accordingly, sometimes higher due to artist demand, like say Jim or Jae Lee for example. |
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not all retailer incentive books carry a cover price. IDW's Transformers RI books don't have them. Marvel has a cover price on theirs, though. | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Don't mind me, just posting so I can find this thread again | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley Agreed. Most with a IDW RI label go anywhere from $10-$25. There are rare exceptions. |
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Collector
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Sorry, kaptainmyke, I see where the thread title could be misintrepeted. I meant the question as a rhetorical one, as in "how does this work? Here's how!" I've updated it. Thanks! |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What they are: A means of encouraging and reinforcing retailer ordering behaviour Where the come from: Historically? Reward, limited, and incentive (different set-up but still incentive such as Uncanny X-Men 354 1:4 Bachalo Phoenix cover)"variants" started in the 90's. Doc may disagree and be correct that it is different now but this IS where the current practice was born. Physically? They come through the distributor with distribution guidelines from the publisher. Basically the distributor is the administrator of the "program" set out by the publisher. How they work: It depends on the publisher. For example, DC is still pretty much order X copies and you can order/receive X variant. With Marvel they have been changing it up a bit lately with eligibility being based on previous ordering habits. I am not sure of all the ins and outs of it but it isn't (necessarily) order X of issue #x and be eligible for X variant. With Archie Comics and some other publishers they are increasingly doing away with rationing of variants and you order what cover you like. With BOOM! you get x copies of cover B (usually very high ration likely 50/50 or 1:4 then you can have other variants that have a much higher eligibility "rules". |
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am 1000% against the practice of variant covers, btw. If anyone wanted to know KaptainMyke's opinion. | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't mind the occasional variant. The 90's had some pretty neat covers. This modern stuff of having 50 different covers for one issue is just bizarre, and stupid. | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MetalPSI Quoted for greatness. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I liked the old formula. You had your regular issues, and your deluxe issues. Sometimes you had your newsstand issues, and your direct issues. It made sense. Then you had your retailer incentives. That was the icing on the cake, and if you had a good LCS, you had the ability to get a retailer incentive for yourself. Then you had your send away issues. Like Magneto #0 and whatever Malibu was doing with those coupons. I personally didn't bother with that stuff, but looking back on it, I think it would have been fun. Of course, the print runs were massive in the 90's, so there isn't much in value today. Perhaps in the next 30 years the prices will come up, until then, I will grab those variants I missed for relatively cheaper than when they first came out. Although I haven't been able to find someone to sell for a reasonable price. Turok Gold #1 for instance. People want a $100 for that in 9.8. No way. |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MetalPSI It is amazing that they get away with it on an ongoing basis but it is pretty much collectors fault that it continues. If people were not buying them they wouldn't likely be continuing to publish them in the numbers they do. The one thing that does worry me is the consequences of what could happen if people en masse just suddenly decided that they no longer wanted to buy them any more. How badly could it hurt the publishers and retailers? How could the fall in price, if it happens, affect buying habits of moderns? Could it cause a mini crash like the 90's when we saw the departure of a huge pile of those who migrated to comic from the dead trading card hobby? The fact that variants exist isn't problem, to me anyway, it is the "rewarding" of possibly bad ordering habits. I hope that retailers and publishers have a good grasp on what "real" numbers are so they can adjust IF the bottom ever falls out. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Oxbladder Excellent point. I would love to see the bottom drop out and perhaps a rethinking of how they are doing things. | ||
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 I'm sure whatever it was you got me was perfect.
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PhantomEwan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MetalPSI You don't mean the new Harley Quinn do you? LOL Last I heard it was over 70. By the way I totally agree. It is insane, and in my opinion damages the industry because you end up with collectors who suffer from completionism finally just giving up and deciding not to bother anymore. |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MetalPSI if it does fall out I would prefer it to be a gradual one. One which allows retailers and publishers to adjust without necessarily taking huge hits on the bottom line and variants to remain around but with drastically diminished occurrence. I grab the odd one and I do like to see another artists take on a favorite character so I am fine with it continuing. Such programs should never potentially mask just what the "real" following is on a title though. | ||
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Oxbladder I also agree to that. A sudden drop would kill a lot of potential creativity. However, one of the biggest holes, variants aside, is storytelling. Marvel and DC are a trainwreck without any creativity or originality. It keeps me from going anywhere near modern issues. I've missed out on a few good ones because of it. Old Man Logan comes to mind, along with Planet Hulk. |
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VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think it is a matter of "if" but "when." People aren't going to want to deal with 70+ different covers for a single issue for very long. Boredom, frustration or financial limits will kick in at some point. A friend is chasing all 72 Harley covers. That's just stupid and going to cost him a lot of money. For that same $, he could build a respectable collection. Instead, he will have a box full of 1 comic. His money and more power to him but that kind of activity will have ripple effects. I don't think it will hurt DC, Marvel or LCS too bad other than when people initially stop chasing all of the variants. Without this devolving into a "how many of each comic exist thread" It would appear that they are selling a lot more comics to retailers. Retailers are getting WAY above cover price for books and selling multiples. The real monetary pain will be on the secondary market. |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MetalPSI DC has me pretty turned off (and for the last three or four years) but Marvel has actually done a decent job with story telling. YMMV vary and I would agree that the originality may not be there but the organization is decent. It's too bad that how DC and Marvel handle themselves turns so many people off moderns altogether because if you step away from the big two there are LOTS of great options and just about any genre you could possibly want. I know prices these days can be prohibitive for testing the waters the wya you could in bygone days but you should give it a try sometime. You may be pleasantly surprised what is out beyond the lands of Marvel and DC. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I suppose we should be getting to what actually is, to what should be. I have no idea how variants work these days. I don't even know what the ratio numbers mean. 1:100 incentive....WTF does that actually mean? Does it mean for every 100 physical copies a retailer buys, 1 will be a variant? |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @VaComicsGuy I agree but with one small disagreement in that if it is a sudden crash that can hurt the publishers and retailer because of the two month ordering window. In the 90's it took both retailers and publishers six months or so to adjust. It was scary. | ||
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VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Oxbladder Agreed. I was collecting in the 90's and know what you are talking about. I should have been clearer. I think that they will experience a loss of income when the crash comes but the extra income they are generating with all of the variants will give them a little financial cushion for when that happens. I think the real financial loss will be on those that are chasing all the variants. Example is my friend. He says he's hoping to get all 72 books averaging $ 35 per book. Not sure his math is good but assuming it is, he's out $ 2500+. |
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 COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I too think the 70+ variants on a single issue is ridiculous. It's hard on a collector who actually likes most of the art on the covers. I'd much rather have that great artwork spread out through the run of a series rather than dumped on us all at once forcing tough financial decisions. But those are retailer exclusives, with defined print runs. A different animal than the retailer incentives where the real number will always be a mystery. | ||
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Collector
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego I don't understand the difference between these |
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Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @VaComicsGuy got it! Thanks for the clarification! | ||
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 Collector
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Kanaloa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't like multiple variants either but it may be only way to keep cover artists employed. Print runs used to be larger. Enough to go around for cover artists. Today, in order to keep cover artists employed they need multiple variants. Without them at least half of cover artists would not exist. I do think there are too many variants though and it will bite back eventually. |
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Kanaloa Let me know if I am wrong, but Scottie Young is one of these? He'd be better off doing real work |
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Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MetalPSI Well though they might encourage the same behaviours the big difference is that you have a concrete number for how many there are in existence. With you average retailer incentive variant the number is based on many factors that very few to no one my be privy to save the publisher employees, such as order numbers and promotional, error, damage print over runs that make it hard to pin down just how many are out there. (Are there more than x number or less? Who knows for sure isn't talking.) |
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COLLECTOR
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DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MetalPSI Retailer Incentives are the ones with 1:25 etc. The store must order XX number of regulars to order 1 copy variant. Retailer Exclusives are where the variant is only available from the retailer, like Midtown, Aspen, Dynamic Forces, and the prints are usually declared ahead of time. | ||
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Collector
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MetalPSI private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Can someone cite me an example of each? Show me a regular issue, then a retailer exclusive and a retailer incentive of that same issue. I apologize for being thick | ||
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