My Experience With CBCS8940
Pages:
1
 Collector
|
sourcaffeine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have submitted several books to CGC but never submitted to CBCS. It's actually been some time since I've submitted anywhere, but since CBCS is so close (Dallas) now, I decided to give them a shot. What follows is my experience and overall opinion. Looking through the CBCS website I was a little confused about a few things. Under the "news and events" dropdown there is a page saying "CBCS is MOVING" but the page shows it is as of June 1, 2018 which is some time ago. Odd it hasn't been taken down yet. Fortunately, finding all of the pricing and submission information was easy enough. Although I have shipped several books with no issues over the years, I always like to reference a grading services packaging recommendations. When looking at the FAQ page under "Shipping" there is a description for packing that states there is a link to CBCS's preferred method of packaging but no link actually exists. At this point I felt a little uneasy as there is no actual shipping guide, but I pressed on. The process of submitting was great. Easy to understand, straight forward and clean. No issues here. Even though I was so close to CBCS (about a 15 min drive), I opted to ship my book due to some work schedule constraints at the time. I opted to pick up the book in person since I could schedule around it. The turn around time was excellent. It took 1 day (expected) to arrive to CBCS and two business days later I was emailed to inform me my book was complete and to schedule a pickup time. There was a customer service number in the email so I called it to see how I would schedule a pickup. Considering I've never picked up a book from a grading service in person, I found scheduling a pickup time a bit odd but figured it was normal. I asked the third party customer service call center how I could schedule a pickup of my book and was informed I would receive a call back because they didn't know. I was contacted back a few hours after and they let me know the exact steps to schedule a pickup time. At this point I realized the only days available were three business days away, which I expressed dissatisfaction at due to I am only 15 minutes away, it was hours before closing time for CBCS, and I was only restricted by the fact their scheduling software dictated when I could get my book. The representative directed me towards the email support to contact CBCS directly, which I did. I sent an email expressing my current dissatisfaction with the pickup process due to the fact that had they mailed it I would receive it sooner than simply picking up, and asked if I could reschedule my pickup time to an earlier date. I was told no. At this point I was not terribly disappointed in anything, as in my mind CBCS was adhering to their process. The date of pickup comes. I arrive to the building 15 minutes early. I enter an empty lobby where I wait for over 10 minutes in odd silence. Another customer comes in and sits down. After several minutes he asks if I "pressed the buzzer" which I told him I didn't as there was no sign or indication to do so. He politely explains the process he typically goes through and makes a phone call to the company. Must be a regular. The person who greeted me was polite and after speaking to him he informed me he didn't work with the comics (worked with signatures), and would find the right person for me. It was another 10 minutes before the correct person greeted me. After asking for my name she disappeared for 15 minutes (I kept constant track of the time as I was on my work lunch break). She arrived to ask for my invoice number as she was having an issue finding my book by name. Another 10 minutes goes by and she finally arrives. Book in hand. We go through the invoice and it is a quick process from there. This is where the disappointment comes from. 9.6. This is a book bought off the shelf, examined thoroughly, immediately board and bagged and placed in storage. The grading notes said wear on the back cover and a light bend on the front. Having thoroughly examined every corner of the book under studio lighting under magnification, my expectation was a 10 which is the only reason I considered submitting this book. Using this same process I've nailed all 12 of my grade 10 books sent to CGC. Regardless, I can accept a grade by a company who does it professionally, even if I disagree with it. My biggest disappointment is what I received in return other than the grade. A poor quality case which flexes readily, isn't tightly sealed, and worst of all has massive amounts of scratches and scuffs in it. I was docked due to "wear on the back cover" but CBCS can't even keep their cases in halfway decent condition. I took it home and compared the case to CGC cases and the quality difference was substantial. None of my CGC cases, even those who have been though a few owners, were capable of flexing so easily. I can actually open the CBCS case with little effort from the side, the entire length of the book. It feels of cheap quality and has low clarity due to the level of scratching and scuffs in the case itself, front and back. Overall I can't say I would use CBCS again. The materials in encapsulation alone are a pretty big disappointment but the grading seems to be of low standard as well. The customer service aspect wasn't excellent but also wasn't horrible, aside from the extensive wait in an empty lobby on a Thursday afternoon. If I had to wait so long to receive such a poor quality case again I would ask for my money back. The turnaround time and pricing was excellent, however. |
||
| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
antoniofett private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I’m sorry you had this experience. I know CBCS is doing some changes, hopefully you will give them another chance once things settle down. | ||
| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
|
IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You obviously have not submitted many books, otherwise you would know that expecting a 10 from ANY grading company is like expecting to win the lottery. 9.8 is for all practical purposes the top grade. Very, very few comics are perfect. If you want proof, send the book to CGC for grading. They have their cross over grading service - you send the book in the competitor's (CBCS) slab. They will email you their grade estimate. It costs less than regular CGC grading. You are not going to get a 10. It should also be noted CBCS is deliberately stricter on books published the last couple of decades. The last 20 years comic books have been printed to much higher quality control standards. Grading is therefore stricter. I can't see you outer holder, but if it really seems scratched up I'd ask for a reholder. OTHERWISE, the encapsulation of comics and plastic enclosures in general involve a number of compromises. I'm guessing you are fairly new to the professional grading and encapsulation of comics. ALL of your concerns would apply equally to the holder that CGC used the first 15 years they were in business. AND that they currently and still use to encapsulate magazines and oversized comic books (like the first four issues of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. The case being sealed along the edges and greatly reduced flexing has only been addressed - to your satisfaction - by CGC the last three years. And ONLY for comic books. Not magazines. But there are as I said compromises involved. The biggest is removing encapsulated comics from their holders. The intent is to keep the comic safe, preserving the grade. And to be tamper evident, not tamper proof. Finally, to be able to safely remove the comic book from the slab if desired. CGC's own terms - the fine print - now state that removing the comic book from their slab is risky. The book might get damaged and you agree to hold CGC, it's officers and employees harmless if the book is damaged while removing it from it's holder. CBCS's terms say no such thing. Because CBCS's slab is designed to be able to safely be removed. AS WAS CGC's slab the first 15 years - as well as the slab that they still use for encapsulating magazines. Only sealed at four corners. It flexes, there are gaps along the edges. You are truly speaking from a perspective that lacks experience. Your only "complaint" that seem legitimate IMHO is how long you waited in the lobby. |
||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IronMan He seems to think he has a perfect system for spotting 10s Quote: Originally Posted by sourcaffeine Personally, if I submitted 12 books and got back 12 10s, I’d think there was something wrong with the grader I will agree that the sides of the case where the slab is injection molded is unsightly but other than that, I have not had any issues with damage to my slabs. If they were so significant, I would’ve brought it up with the representative, especially if I was picking up the book at their office |
||
| Post 4 • IP flag post | ||
 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
|
kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
 |
||
| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
sourcaffeine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @@IronMan Seems like you're taking an elitist standpoint as to grading comics. I've been submitting to CGC for over 10 years now with few complaints. While I can concede that CGC has not always had the highest quality cases, what I received was nothing even close to the ballpark of what is expected. I wouldn't expect a 10 in virtually any instance except those that I consider the absolute highest quality. In my consideration, I only expected it because of the personal examination and it is a book that is fairly notorious for receiving 10 (The Killing Joke). This was an exceptional book as is the others I've submitted with 10s. Not sure if I would prefer a lower quality case because it is easier to remove. In this instance, it was particularly poor quality in comparison to a CGC case. It is difficult to describe with words, but I wouldn't consider this a quality slab by any means. @dielinfinite I definitely don't have a perfect system spotting 10s. I do know, however, if I see a single flaw in a book, I would never expect a 10 from any grading company. In virtually any and all 10s I've received it was a book that went far above any expectation I could hope to have. My complaint (which you seem to focus on), is NOT the grade I received (which I was merely disappointed with, but not angry about), but the quality of the encapsulation and the customer service aspect. |
||
| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Killing joke. Not sure I would say notorious for getting 10s. Only 1 out of every 400 books submitted received a 10 |
||
| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Since when is Killing Joke notorious for receiving 10s? I know it tends to grade highly for a 30 year old book, I’ve made that claim myself, but there are less than 20 10s in the CGC census across all printings out of over 6,000 copies submitted. I hardly think that qualifies as notorious. If I wanted a 10, I’d submit a copy of Batman: Damned #1, where nearly 13% of the copies in the CGC census are 10s and roughly 40% are 9.9 or higher |
||
| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
sourcaffeine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Again, my complaint isn't really about the grade received as in my opinion it should have been higher, but specifically about the end product received and the customer service aspect involved. You can try to explain everything away as being angry over the assigned grade, that is your perspective and you're welcome to it. I am trying to detail my first experience with CBCS, as someone who had dealt with CGC over the years, and how I walk away with a negative opinion, in my experience, with a competing company offering a similar service. If anything, this is meant to be a constructive post, not a bashing post. |
||
| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
|
Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
|
IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sourcaffeine I responded to what you said: "I have submitted several books to CGC" I have submitted thousands. Many thousands. Since they opened. It's not meant to be elitist. But it is factual. Your "several" (which the dictionary says is more than two but not very many. A handful) books sent to CGC does not equal the experience I have with thousands. Your experience lacks depth. The lack of depth leads to a lack of perspective. That lack of perspective is reflected in your comment that Batman: The Killing is notorious for get 10's. CGC has graded 6058 first prints. 14 (FOURTEEN) have received 10's. Perspective..... As I said, send the book to CGC for cross over grading. Post up the results. The outer holder used by the various companies can be a long conversation. The CGC case you speak of as being superior. Newton rings (rainbow effect) is now a common problem with CGC encapsulated books. The OLD CGC case had Newton rings too. But because the sides were not sealed, you could slip a piece of paper in from the (unsealed) sides and push the two pieces of plastic (inner and outer holders) apart. Shazam! No more Newton ring. I think the CGC holder is pretty, it feels nice in hand. I don't view it as superior. There are significant negatives to the new CGC slab. It is a draw - IMHO. And - no doubt sounding elitist - it's the more experienced hobbyist that recognizes the problems with the CGC slab. It's the less experienced hobbyist impressed by weight and edge sealing. |
||
| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sourcaffeine We get that you’re only disappointed with the grade and that the bulk of your major complaints lie elsewhere. You’re welcome to them. I never tried to explain everything away by saying you’re disappointed in the grade. At the same time your post does beg questions about why your expectations for the grade were so high, which made that particular part of your post stand out. I know you’ve said you’ve gotten 12 10s but just looking at the numbers, no one should submit a Killing Joke (or any book) expecting a 10, even if they’ve examined as thoroughly as you have. |
||
| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
sourcaffeine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IronMan You're probably right in that you have more experience. I said the word "several". I've submitted over 300 books to CGC. You've submitted thousands to whoever you've preferred. While I have submitted less, I don't think the number is insignificant enough to be unable to form an opinion. My submissions have been over years as I don't typically submit books unless I plan to resell them. If I am keeping them I don't have them graded. There are downsides to the CGC cases in many ways, but the point of a case is to be protective long term. I don't believe the CBCS case offers this and I can't justify it being an easier case to open as making it superior. I am disappointed with the case and the other aspects described. This is my experience and I stick to it. @dielinfinite My expectations for the grade being so high are again because I don't submit books just to submit them. I collect, not typically resale. If I sell a book I tend to have it graded. When I deem a book to be a 10 I kind of expect it. Had I received a 9.8 I would have felt it was totally justified as the difference between a 9.8, 9.9 or a 10 are sometimes so small they could go in any direction. A 9.6 I felt, in this case, was particularly disappointing especially when reviewing the grader notes and not being able to agree in any capacity with them. |
||
| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Forget about the grade assigned for a moment. Do you see a light bend and/or wear on he back cover? Wear can be color loss or even scratches. Very light Scratches are common for deluxe format books. And the cgc may be more robust, but comics (paper) are really supposed to "breathe" to decelerate the aging process...and the current cgc cases don't offer this...so the debate is still out whether they are hurting the comics enclose over extended time. As for flexibility of the case, what are you putting your comics through this is of concern? If stored/handledproperly this shouldn't matter to the comic...is an asthetics/personal preference. And I would think the heavy inflexible cgc case may be more susceptible to cracking if put through a light impact. But that's just the materials engineer in me speculating. As for the case clarity, if you're not satisfied and there are scuffs you should definitely bring that up with cbcs. I find CBCS cases to be clearer a than cgc....mostly due to the Newton ring issue mentioned above, but also that the cgc case has a slight "tinge" to the plastic making the comic inside appear darker...I have not found the cbcs case to be this way. Customer service and TATs...those are my issues and why I don't send comics to them anymore. But you didn't really see those as issues and I'm surprised by that. But you didn't use their pressing service which is what really drags it on. Sorry you didn't get a 9.8 or higher...but that's their grading system based on the results of their examination. That's what you paid for them to do. I have yet to get a 9.8 from cbcs, but I can't say I disagreed with their evaluations to date nor have I sent Enough in to say it's an issue. At least when you send the comic to cgc it'll be a little easier to get it out of the casing with respect to risk to the comic. |
||
| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
sourcaffeine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Drogio As I stated previously, I did thoroughly examine this book as I do any that I plan to sell. In this case under lighting and magnification meeting or exceeding any grading company in this space, I noted zero imperfections even the lightest of scratches or bends in the book. The rear cover is what is in question here, and it is almost solid black. Easy to note imperfections. While I admit is possible this happened during shipping (rubbing against the back board possibly, even unlikely?) I noted none during my exam. While, again, I am not overly upset with the grade other than I disagree (I do plan to send to CGC after), my main complaint is the quality received. Considering I plan to send this to CGC, I wont take up the case clarity issue with CBCS. In the future if I may send to CBCS again to audit their perceived quality and note if this is a specific one off case of overall performance or a pattern, although at this point I wouldn't send in any book I plan to sell. |
||
| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
I just wanted to point out that if the scratches you are talking about are on the edge and like the ones pictured, that is normal. They occur as a result of the manufacturing process and do not harm the integrity of the case. |
||
| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sourcaffeine 2 things You already have the books back as you picked them up yourself. So are there any imperfections with the book? Secondly, CBCS provides free graders note https://www.cbcscomics.com/grading-notes I would be curious to learn what the notes say |
||
| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
 Moderators handing out titles: Boom. Roasted.
|
Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sourcaffeine The materials is a matter of opinion. Either Netwon Rings or a clearer case that is meant to breathe hence the flexibility. It comes down to personal preference and to each their own. However, if strict grading is deemed to be low standard I would suggest PGX. |
||
| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And that is why it is called gambling. You can self grade and sell it raw? | ||
| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
 Beaten by boat oars
|
Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HcanesThere's always Midwest Comic Grading!  |
||
| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
|
Moderators handing out titles: Boom. Roasted.
|
Hcanes private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley I can never unsee that. The website looks like it was done in the 90s. It looks like someone opened up a lemonade stand for grading and slabbing. In the words of Charles Barkley "Tuuuurrible" |
||
| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
 SpongeBob Comics #1 sells for $991!
|
Joosh private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I recently tried CGC after growing weary of CBCS TAT’s and overburdened customer service. Over half of my recent books from CGC have newton Rings and scuffs inside the cases. About 1 in 10 books are loose in the holder. My next submission goes back to CBCS; I’ve never got a scuffed case, Newton rings, or a loose book from them. It sounds like the TAT’s are much better now too. Also, I have been most impressed overall with CBCS’ in house pressing. |
||
| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
sourcaffeine private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jesse_O No, that is not the scratching I am talking about. I mean on the cover and the back of the case. Lots of vertical scratches on the front and the back has massive amounts of swirl marks like someone tried to clean it with sandpaper. The front is really uniform but very unappealing. @poka 19-15C9BC6-001 I have checked closely and cannot see what CBCS is talking about. The case is heavily scratched on the back so verifying if there is wear on the back caused by shipping is difficult. I will update when I crack the case and resubmit. @Hcanes I have never owned a CBCS book myself before but I've come across them. Although I haven't thoroughly examined them as I did my own, I can say the ones I've seen were of a much higher quality than my experience. As far as "breathing" goes, I can't say I agree with that much. As someone who worked in one of the largest print shops in the world for over 10 years and encapsulated Topps/Fleer trading cards on sight, air circulation/leaks were not acceptable. @doog I don't self grade and sell raw. I don't sell books regularly. In the past 10 years I've probably sold less than 100 books. I send all to a grading company in the few times I do sell. I am a collector, not a seller. @Joosh I can't speak to any pressing services as I've never used them aside from a local service and only a few times at that. As far as newton rings go, they honestly don't bother me but that is my preference. For my experience, I was highly unimpressed with the completed product in comparison to what I have received from CGC. |
||
| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @sourcaffeine by now any pics you wish to share? | ||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
|
BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Wow! Some those mold marks are absolutely horrible! With todays modern tech those are just really unacceptable. CGC cases may have their issues, but the edges are clean, certainly nothing like those CBCS Slabs pictured. I thought i heard that CBCS was going to unveil a new slab? First and foremost they would need to address the ugly unprofessional looking mold marks. If thats "Normal" I'll most certain have to pass on CBCS |
||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka +1 |
||
| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ahhhh ..... yes .... that 9.6 vs 9.8 discussion. I, personally, won't buy that Kool Aid that there's a difference when there is so much evidence out there that direct crack and resubmissions of 9.6 come back as 9.8 and vice versa. (Sorry - really don't want to hear that there is a difference until grading becomes objective and not subjective) But I'm happy to pour that kool aid for someone else who does buy into it. Cha-ching! |
||
| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
|
GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VaComicsGuy Yeah, at this point without pics this is meaningless. |
||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
|
I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
|
GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'll take CBCSs unbiased grade opinion (with all their grading tools, grading processes and years of experience) over the opinion of a biased book owner on this one. Unless pictures can be provided to the contrary. | ||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
Pages:
1This topic is archived. Start new topic?