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Paypal Changing its Terms8729

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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for. 27.42K	27.42K drchaos private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 12
	Today Paypal announced several changes in its terms. The one that has me hot under the collar is the change where Paypal will keep the fees it collects on amounts that are entirely or partially refunded. In other words, if a buyer pays you for an ebay listing through Paypal and suddenly decides they no longer want the item they end up getting all of their money back (ebay and Paypal will not back the seller on this one) and the seller is out the Paypal fees with nothing to show for them.
	5 years ago	Post 1 • IP flag post

Collector 23.69K	23.69K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	link?
	5 years ago	Post 2 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 14
	Zelda?
	5 years ago	Post 3 • IP flag post

I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. 24.82K	24.82K flanders private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	American capitalism at its finest.
	5 years ago	Post 4 • IP flag post

Suck it up, buttercup!!

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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by poka
link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Zelda?

laughing so hard I'm weezing!!!!

5 years ago

Collector 25	25 gyanarthi private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 10
	https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
	5 years ago	Post 6 • IP flag post

Collector 25	25 gyanarthi private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Square does not charge for refunds...don't know how that could work with EBAY posts.. https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5615
	5 years ago	Post 7 • IP flag post

Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! 6.11K	6.11K IronMan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by drchaos Today Paypal announced several changes in its terms. The one that has me hot under the collar is the change where Paypal will keep the fees it collects on amounts that are entirely or partially refunded. In other words, if a buyer pays you for an ebay listing through Paypal and suddenly decides they no longer want the item they end up getting all of their money back (ebay and Paypal will not back the seller on this one) and the seller is out the Paypal fees with nothing to show for them. That sucks....
	5 years ago	Post 8 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 13.24K	13.24K shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Sucks, but I can see the logic. Paypal charges for their service, why give service for free with a double transaction paid/refund. If a seller is good, they wont have many refunds though, so it shouldnt effect much. Will definitely effect anyone doing shill transactions though!
	5 years ago	Post 9 • IP flag post

Collector 1.01K	1.01K Homer private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	The bozos dealers on Ebay who take returns on there overgraded goods will not get a complete refund now, some skin the there game. Although Ebay will use this to push there new payment platform.
	5 years ago	Post 10 • IP flag post

Collector

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Quote:

Originally Posted by poka
link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Zelda?

GANNON!!!

5 years ago

I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for. 27.42K	27.42K drchaos private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Sucks, but I can see the logic. Paypal charges for their service, why give service for free with a double transaction paid/refund. If a seller is good, they wont have many refunds though, so it shouldnt effect much. Will definitely effect anyone doing shill transactions though! Buyers change their minds after paying for books and no longer want them. The seller can do nothing to force them to take the books. In this situation a good seller can still lose.
	5 years ago	Post 12 • IP flag post

To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die. 5.62K	5.62K MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Well with the "Returns Accepted" active on your listing then yes you are pretty much stuck with the return. The buyer can ask for a return for ANY reason and you don't really have any say so in the matter. I learned my lesson the hard way on that and now I do not have returns accepted active on any of my listings. Although I haven't really had many problems the few I did when the buyer requested a return without a valid reason I refused. They opened cases and I won all of them and they even tried leaving me negative feedback which I had ebay remove.
	5 years ago	Post 13 • IP flag post

I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for. 27.42K	27.42K drchaos private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Quote: Originally Posted by MutantMania Well with the "Returns Accepted" active on your listing then yes you are pretty much stuck with the return. The buyer can ask for a return for ANY reason and you don't really have any say so in the matter. I learned my lesson the hard way on that and now I do not have returns accepted active on any of my listings. Although I haven't really had many problems the few I did when the buyer requested a return without a valid reason I refused. They opened cases and I won all of them and they even tried leaving me negative feedback which I had ebay remove. I only sell slabbed books. My policy is not to accept returns. The one time I tried to force a sale on a book that a buyer wanted to return I paid to insure the package (in case the buyer tried to claim item damaged) but the buyer refused to accept the package from the post office and won an item not received claim with Paypal for a full refund including the shipping. That is how I learned the hard way that a buyer can use Paypal to get out of the deal if they really want to.
	5 years ago	Post 14 • IP flag post

I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. 27.08K	27.08K kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Zelda? @CaptainCanuck
	5 years ago	Post 15 • IP flag post

Collector 23.69K	23.69K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@drchaos any smart buyers would pay ebay purchases with credit card through eBay You then get three chances for returns if needed. eBay, PayPal, credit card issuing.
	5 years ago	Post 16 • IP flag post

Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! 6.11K	6.11K IronMan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Sucks, but I can see the logic. Paypal charges for their service, why give service for free with a double transaction paid/refund. If a seller is good, they wont have many refunds though, so it shouldnt effect much. Will definitely effect anyone doing shill transactions though! Visa and Mastercard "charge for their services" too. But if a merchant/seller gives a refund of a sale paid for by Visa/Mastercard, then the fees are credited back to the seller. And my being a "good" seller doesn't really factor into this debate. That PayPal will only screw me over once in a great while does not make said screwing more acceptable. What is really....surprising to me...is just how short sighted this is of PayPal. They have been trying to get accepted as a payment method at more retail businesses. I would point out for instance that CGC and CBCS do not accept PayPal. Walmart takes PayPal online, but not at retail stores. Amazon - the retail giant - does not take PP. I cannot imagine that Walmart or Amazon will have any interest at all now in taking PayPal. Both make it easy for customers to return items. And now they would be looking at a 2-3% nick every time someone that paid with PP returns an item. Where they have no such loss with Visa/Mastercard/Discover etc. This reminds me of the PayPal of old. I mean if you go back to the beginning - 1998 - PayPal was a HORRIBLE company. There was (still is) a website - Paypalsucks.com - that sprung up over how terrible they were. Lawsuits against PP were rampant. When eBay purchased PayPal in October 2002, that began the gradual improvement to PayPal services and the company we see now. Paypal and eBay split in 2015, with a five year agreement between the two companies for eBay to use their payment system. I think we can see the writing on the wall. PayPal is going to return to their former "screw everyone we can as often as we can" ways. I sell infrequently on eBay. Until eBay has other payment options this will make my using eBay even less likely. I will want electronic payments to be via Credit and Debit cards. Where a return equals a refund.
	5 years ago	Post 17 • IP flag post

Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! 6.11K	6.11K IronMan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by drchaos Quote: Originally Posted by MutantMania Well with the "Returns Accepted" active on your listing then yes you are pretty much stuck with the return. The buyer can ask for a return for ANY reason and you don't really have any say so in the matter. I learned my lesson the hard way on that and now I do not have returns accepted active on any of my listings. Although I haven't really had many problems the few I did when the buyer requested a return without a valid reason I refused. They opened cases and I won all of them and they even tried leaving me negative feedback which I had ebay remove. I only sell slabbed books. My policy is not to accept returns. The one time I tried to force a sale on a book that a buyer wanted to return I paid to insure the package (in case the buyer tried to claim item damaged) but the buyer refused to accept the package from the post office and won an item not received claim with Paypal for a full refund including the shipping. That is how I learned the hard way that a buyer can use Paypal to get out of the deal if they really want to. I also (almost) always only sell slabbed books on eBay. What you describe is why I DO accept returns. When you don't accept returns, it just encourages people to make up some excuse that eBay and PP will go along with. Then NOT ONLY do you take a return, you pay return shipping. So I smile and take returns. Doesn't happen often because the books are professionally graded. But it does happen occasionally. Last month a buyer returned a $335 book because he said his father in law died and he couldn't afford it. He paid return postage. If I had a "no return" policy he could have just said there was a scratch on the case. Or refuse to accept like with you. And then I'd both take the return and pay the return shipping. I think taking returns cheerfully is best for business. But in the situation I describe above - if this sale and then return occurred after the new PP rules - I'd be out $10 because PP wouldn't refund the fees to me on the return. Where if I had been paid by a credit card my credit card processor would return the fees.
	5 years ago	Post 18 • IP flag post

To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die. 5.62K	5.62K MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by drchaos Quote: Originally Posted by MutantMania Well with the "Returns Accepted" active on your listing then yes you are pretty much stuck with the return. The buyer can ask for a return for ANY reason and you don't really have any say so in the matter. I learned my lesson the hard way on that and now I do not have returns accepted active on any of my listings. Although I haven't really had many problems the few I did when the buyer requested a return without a valid reason I refused. They opened cases and I won all of them and they even tried leaving me negative feedback which I had ebay remove. I only sell slabbed books. My policy is not to accept returns. The one time I tried to force a sale on a book that a buyer wanted to return I paid to insure the package (in case the buyer tried to claim item damaged) but the buyer refused to accept the package from the post office and won an item not received claim with Paypal for a full refund including the shipping. That is how I learned the hard way that a buyer can use Paypal to get out of the deal if they really want to. So the buyer asked to return the book before he even received it? Did you call ebay or PayPal? I had a similar situation happen and called them and they told me even if he did refuse it and a refund had to be issued it would be for ONLY the actual purchase price and not shipping. I sent him a message telling him this and he ended up keeping it. If I make an error or mess up then yes I will accept a return but if it's just because of buyers remorse, found it cheaper, or whatever then NO.
	5 years ago	Post 19 • IP flag post

To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die. 5.62K	5.62K MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	I remember having an online bank account with x.com that was eventually renamed to PayPal
	5 years ago	Post 20 • IP flag post

Collector 673	673 Squack private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Just imagine selling a monster key on eBay only to have the buyer return the item... We could see high dollar books disappear from searches very quickly and drive the price up even more.
	5 years ago	Post 21 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Sucks, but I can see the logic. Paypal charges for their service, why give service for free with a double transaction paid/refund.

If a seller is good, they wont have many refunds though, so it shouldnt effect much. Will definitely effect anyone doing shill transactions though!

Visa and Mastercard "charge for their services" too. But if a merchant/seller gives a refund of a sale paid for by Visa/Mastercard, then the fees are credited back to the seller.

And my being a "good" seller doesn't really factor into this debate. That PayPal will only screw me over once in a great while does not make said screwing more acceptable.

What is really....surprising to me...is just how short sighted this is of PayPal. They have been trying to get accepted as a payment method at more retail businesses. I would point out for instance that CGC and CBCS do not accept PayPal. Walmart takes PayPal online, but not at retail stores. Amazon - the retail giant - does not take PP.

I cannot imagine that Walmart or Amazon will have any interest at all now in taking PayPal. Both make it easy for customers to return items. And now they would be looking at a 2-3% nick every time someone that paid with PP returns an item. Where they have no such loss with Visa/Mastercard/Discover etc.

This reminds me of the PayPal of old. I mean if you go back to the beginning - 1998 - PayPal was a HORRIBLE company. There was (still is) a website - Paypalsucks.com - that sprung up over how terrible they were. Lawsuits against PP were rampant. When eBay purchased PayPal in October 2002, that began the gradual improvement to PayPal services and the company we see now.

Paypal and eBay split in 2015, with a five year agreement between the two companies for eBay to use their payment system. I think we can see the writing on the wall. PayPal is going to return to their former "screw everyone we can as often as we can" ways.

I sell infrequently on eBay. Until eBay has other payment options this will make my using eBay even less likely. I will want electronic payments to be via Credit and Debit cards. Where a return equals a refund.

These are all good points. While it’s logical for them to want their fees, for their own sake if the competition is not charging, neither should they.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMan
I think taking returns cheerfully is best for business.

Why so many people do not understand this is beyond me. If I sell a book to someone, it means there is a market, and I can easily sell it again. Returns are just a part of business. Factor it into the bottom line and move on. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The only time I’ve ever gotten upset was once when I sold a very hot brand new spec book that cooled down so fast the buyer could save $50 within a day of his purchase. I was irritated he canceled because it negated my excitement over being “first to the market” with the book, but I totally understood his position lol.

5 years ago

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