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Comics Golden Age

What to do with a book missing a page?863

COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by matterus023
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.

But if you paid for a restored book you know what you are getting, if you're only intentions in buying a restored book is to crack it open and undo the resto in the hopes of increasing the value then you are assuming that risk in your venture.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Swampy
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Originally Posted by matterus023
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.


But either way it's in a purple label, so it's not that much of a difference. Am I misunderstanding how much you hate trimming?


No you just have completely misunderstood the whole point of this convo and I refuse to explain it a 10th time to you
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Collector Swampy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.

But if you paid for a restored book you know what you are getting, if you're only intentions in buying a restored book is to crack it open and undo the resto in the hopes of increasing the value then you are assuming that risk in your venture.


THANK YOU, GOODNIGHT!

You nailed it Darth.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.

But if you paid for a restored book you know what you are getting, if you're only intentions in buying a restored book is to crack it open and undo the resto in the hopes of increasing the value then you are assuming that risk in your venture.


Not at all. Yes there is risk but if this comic was not originally trimmed then the slight/mod resto could be taken off eventually without it coming back trimmed.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampy
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.

But if you paid for a restored book you know what you are getting, if you're only intentions in buying a restored book is to crack it open and undo the resto in the hopes of increasing the value then you are assuming that risk in your venture.


THANK YOU, GOODNIGHT!

You nailed it Darth.


Not thank you lol

My whole point is if you buy a restored comic to take the resto off then shouldn't you be aware that by doing this the comic will come back as trimmed. We are all aware of the risks of taking resto off and people do this as a business but not knowing it was trimmed is not a risk the buyer should have to take as it should be noted
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm out. This convo has turned crazy. You are both trolling me I am sure. My point is very simple and accurate so I won't comment again on the matter.

Night
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@matterus023 what you're looking for is a guarantee that removes the risk. Having the trim fix always noted. I can tell you, you won't get that from CGC, they want extra money for the notes. As for CBCS, we need to get an official answer as to if this info is in the grader notes. Without an answer, or someone providing a sample book with that exact work done where we can look up the serial number it is just speculation.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@matterus023 I don't know why you would think I'm trolling you, I'm trying to be helpful, unlike Swampy.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@matterus023 what you're looking for is a guarantee that removes the risk. Having the trim fix always noted. I can tell you, you won't get that from CGC, they want extra money for the notes. As for CBCS, we need to get an official answer as to if this info is in the grader notes. Without an answer, or someone providing a sample book with that exact work done where we can look up the serial number it is just speculation.


Look I have no horse in this race genuinely. But my point is valid regarding this. When trimmed comics are turned into untrimmed comics it should be mentioned no matter what.

I know work that has been done by people regarding this and it is not noted. You don't have to take my word but I will not name names on here as very unprofessional.

Like I said I see nothing wrong with restorers doing this it is the grading companies that are at fault here imo. Others may not see things the same.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
I agree that should be noted. I simply do not know if CBCS notes that. I do know they put more info in the QR code graders notes than appears on the label.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
But if you paid for a restored book you know what you are getting, if you're only intentions in buying a restored book is to crack it open and undo the resto in the hopes of increasing the value then you are assuming that risk in your venture.


This logic can apply to anything though. I could say when you buy ANY raw comic to slab and increase value that you are taking the risk when buying it that it isn't trimmed or restored. But a good seller should note this if they know.

So a professional grading company especially should note this.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
I agree that should be noted. I simply do not know if CBCS notes that. I do know they put more info in the QR code graders notes than appears on the label.


If on this point I can be proved wrong then great but I know that in all the cases I know about it isn't noted.

Still happy to be shown in other cases it has been noted

Plus in the world of comics I don't care if people trim comics, restore them, press them for value. I mean whatever helps pay your bills. Just nice to have all the facts and figures though
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@matterus023 I have no doubt that CGC simply doesn't care about getting that detailed.

Have you seen any examples of CBCS slabs where this type of work was done on the book?

We are in 100% agreement that this info should be in the notes if they have detected it.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@matterus023 I have no doubt that CGC simply doesn't care about getting that detailed.

Have you seen any examples of CBCS slabs where this type of work was done on the book?

We are in 100% agreement that this info should be in the notes if they have detected it.


Yes I have seen examples Darth. But as courtesy to the restorer/s I won't mention the comics as not professional. I appreciate here I am asking you to take my word on it and you are in your rights not to. But would be an odd thing for me to make up
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@matterus023 I don't have any experience to draw from regarding CBCS slabbed restored books. So I don't question what you have seen. I would say to CBCS if it's true you don't describe such work in the notes that needs to change. More information is always better.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@matterus023 I don't have any experience to draw from regarding CBCS slabbed restored books. So I don't question what you have seen. I would say to CBCS if it's true you don't describe such work in the notes that needs to change. More information is always better.


Agreed. It is a very very small % of times this would happen where someone may want to remove resto on a comic which was previously trimmed but regardless it should be mentioned. Also some would like to know in general.

Phew we finally got here lol. I still don't believe Swampy has a clue what I am talking about
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.


I don't get this. If you buy a PLOD knowing absolutely nothing about what was restored, why would you think you knew what you were buying in the first place? Before the restorer tells you 'this was trimmed', why would the assumption be that it was another kind of 'pieces added' resto?

That's the buyer's tough luck. If someone wants to go through the trouble of un-restoration, you'd think they'd go the extra yard and pay for the grader's notes (if it's CGC) to find out what it is they're getting into.

Again, if the research is lacking, buyer beware.
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@MR_SigS That's pretty much what I was trying to get at when I said if someone is intending to undo resto, they need to get an estimate of what's been done to it by whoever they intend to hire before any work is done. That would prevent a costly mistake.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
I would suggest if the notation says pieces added then get it examined by whoever you are thinking of using to remove the resto and get a list of what was done to it before they begin undoing it. Be an educated customer, don't just hand it over and say "have at it!"


You are heavily missing the point. Once you have bought the comic then it is too late. If you buy with the intention to take resto off well the restorer needs to crack the comic to observe it (so you can't get a refund now). So if the restorer as I mentioned says ''me doing this will make it trimmed'' you are left with a comic that you didn't think you were buying.


I don't get this. If you buy a PLOD knowing absolutely nothing about what was restored, why would you think you knew what you were buying in the first place? Before the restorer tells you 'this was trimmed', why would the assumption be that it was another kind of 'pieces added' resto?

That's the buyer's tough luck. If someone wants to go through the trouble of un-restoration, you'd think they'd go the extra yard and pay for the grader's notes (if it's CGC) to find out what it is they're getting into.

Again, if the research is lacking, buyer beware.


But the notes will not say that the pieces added were to mask trim.

If you buy a comic with ONLY pieces added why should you now have the added worry that if you get a professional restorer to take the work off to get a blue label (or a restorer themselves buy it do do) why should you get burned with now a still restored trimmed comic?? It would be very simple on the notes for it to say the pieces added in this case were to cover that this comic was infact trimmed.

Is no one seeing my point on this seriously? I mean lets say someone took a UK edition comic, painted over the d and put cents and added the date on the comic. So it is restored with colour touch. Would you not want to know you are buying a uk edition comic that has just been worked on to look like a cents copy. I mean it seems to me that others just feel this is the buyers tough luck. Not at all it is up to the grading companies if they have spotted this to note it.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@MR_SigS That's pretty much what I was trying to get at when I said if someone is intending to undo resto, they need to get an estimate of what's been done to it by whoever they intend to hire before any work is done. That would prevent a costly mistake.


But as it isn't put on the notes then if a buyer buys a comic why should they presume if the work is professionally taken off (by the way many pay for this service) that they will be left with a trimmed comic. No one can tell no matter how good at their job looking through a case exactly what is going on.

So the restorer will have to crack it open and inspect it. Then they may contact the client and say I am really sorry. If it was ANY OTHER kind of pieces added I could of got it to a blue copy but this will come back as trimmed. It should be in the notes end of
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Collector Swampy private msg quote post Address this user
I'd rather have a trimmed book than one that's been leafcast. At least the trimmed book is 100% original.

*runs away cackling*
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
@Swampy stop trolling
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
@MR_SigS That's pretty much what I was trying to get at when I said if someone is intending to undo resto, they need to get an estimate of what's been done to it by whoever they intend to hire before any work is done. That would prevent a costly mistake.


But as it isn't put on the notes then if a buyer buys a comic why should they presume if the work is professionally taken off (by the way many pay for this service) that they will be left with a trimmed comic. No one can tell no matter how good at their job looking through a case exactly what is going on.

So the restorer will have to crack it open and inspect it. Then they may contact the client and say I am really sorry. If it was ANY OTHER kind of pieces added I could of got it to a blue copy but this will come back as trimmed. It should be in the notes end of


You're beating a dead horse here. None of us has told you that this information should not be in the notes. I came straight out and agreed with you on that.

Your beef isn't with us and our opinion of the buyers responsibility in assuming the risk with the ventures of crackling PLODS.

Your beef is with the grading companies. If you really want results on this issue then contact the customer service of CGC and CBCS and tell them that this is something that concerns you and you'd like for them to address it in the way they make their graders notes.

In the meantime, if anyone chooses to crack PLODS then just know that you are taking a risk and be prepaired for not having it go as you planned. Every venture entered into for profit has risks of failure, that's just the way it is.
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Collector Swampy private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego
@Swampy stop trolling


Aww, go check your Marvel Value Stamps.

*chortles and guffaws on the way out*
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by DarthLego

In the meantime, if anyone chooses to crack PLODS then just know that you are taking a risk and be prepaired for not having it go as you planned. Every venture entered into for profit has risks of failure, that's just the way it is.


This, and that's that.
Of course every defect should be noted and available,but if the description is vague and the buyer claims it anyway, that's on the buyer.

It's like buying a car advertised as being "handed down from a relative- told it needs work". Would a buyer think, "Hmm, doesn't say what it needs, but I'll assume it needs new tires, so I'll buy it then check it out."
Should the seller have mentioned there was no engine? You bet, but he didn't and the car was paid for anyway.
Not mentioning what the car needs is on the relative. Poor advertising is on the seller. Purchasing a vaguely described expensive item is on the buyer.

Bottom line, sure all grading companies should describe in detail everything they learned while grading the book. But if they DON'T, buyer beware.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
My whole point has been missed.

If a comic is slight/slight/mod and a customer wants the resto taken off then it should be a 100% certainty that if all the resto is taken off it comes back as a blue.

Not if you take all the resto off it comes back as resto still.

Doesn't matter this has become boring lol

@DarthLego I appreciate you saying you agree it should be noted. As I have also said I have no beef with anyone on here about it. To begin with it was just a passing comment about this which then took me a fair few messages to show that it happens then felt like I had to explain endlessly why it would be annoying to a potential buyer.

Now others are saying taking resto involves risks. Well this is very clear to everyone. This was not my point. Taking all the resto off and still being left with a resto copy isn't a necessary risk it is extremely unfair.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by matterus023

Now others are saying taking resto [off] involves risks. Well this is very clear to everyone. This was not my point. Taking all the resto off and still being left with a resto copy isn't a necessary risk it is extremely unfair.



Actually I think our point on that is BUYING vaguely described resto with the intent of fixing what you ASSUME the resto is involves risk.
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Collector Swampy private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by matterus023
My whole point has been missed.


Why do you think that is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus
If a comic is slight/slight/mod and a customer wants the resto taken off then it should be a 100% certainty that if all the resto is taken off it comes back as a blue.


CBCS and CGC can't detect trimming or pressing 100% of the time but you want this type of thing, which happens to 0.00000000001% of all 3.5 million comics ever slabbed, to be 100%? Your request is unreasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus
Not if you take all the resto off it comes back as resto still.


But you bought it as restored so you haven't lost anything. You were just dumb enough to spend money trying to change a PLOD into a Blue. That's on the buyer, they have to take personal responsibility for their actions and realize that greed got them into this situation in the first place.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm out. Thanks for the chat. Plus i never mentioned pressing to be noted.

Plus asking if trimming covered up for it to be mentioned in the notes is hardly asking too much. Your whole argument is a contradiction. So it never happens (what you said) but it is asking far too much/unreasonable for when it does to add a couple more words on notes. Wow what an ask. Your points make no sense at all mate
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Collector Swampy private msg quote post Address this user
"Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." Erich Fromm

Just like this thread LOL.
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