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Grading Help NeededQuestions

Amazing Spider-Man #252 Before and After Being Shipped to CBCS.8228

Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
I am a first time customer with CBCS and overall I am happy with the grades my comics received. I submitted 10 comics for grading, all modern tier, 7 were accepted (one of which was a verified signature) and 3 comics were rejected since they were below the grade screening I selected (one of which is my Amazing Spiderman #252).

In no way am I alleging that my comics were damaged while in CBCS possession. Since this is my first submission of any collectible to a third party grading service I'm looking for advice from the community on if this is just an assumption of risk or if there is generally a remedy to a situation where comics are damaged at some point after they are shipped by a customer. I've included photos of the comic from before shipping and after I received it from CBCS, today 1-15-19. I appreciate any feedback.


Before Shipping to CBCS:





After Being Received from CBCS (several color breaking spine creases, mostly towards the top of the comic):




I have several other photos, these are the two clearest for a comparison of the Before & After.
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Collector Terry88 private msg quote post Address this user
I had a similar experience but didn't have the foresight to take pre-submission pics.

I also didn't send them myself, I submitted through some reps at a con. I wont be submitting through them again and will be shipping them myself.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Noblebeast315 private msg quote post Address this user
Wow! I can see the difference pretty clearly and this is exactly why everyone should take photos of their comic before submitting them. My I ask what your grade screen was set as and how did you pack your books for shipping? Did you have shipping insurance?

When I first sent some books in I had a similar situation take place. I didn’t have enough foresight to take pictures but I believe one of the four books to come back to me in not as good condition. I have no clue what to blame this on.

I think CBCS is a great company (recent turnaround times excluded), and wouldn’t imagine anything intentionaly done to hurt the books. That said who knows if anyone less trained had touched the books or an accident had happens at the facility. This could have also been a shipping issue. Either way I think you have a claim to make.
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Collector Noblebeast315 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry88
I had a similar experience but didn't have the foresight to take pre-submission pics.

I also didn't send them myself, I submitted through some reps at a con. I wont be submitting through them again and will be shipping them myself.


I actually pre packaged my books that I was submitting at a con before handing it over to the rep. I did have books that were witnessed sigs but my other books were in a box I handed him. I wouldn’t do that again either though because I felt like the books would have gotten in the system a lot quicker if I had just mailed them in honestly. From the date of the Con it took almost a month for them to hit their system as “processing”.
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Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noblebeast315
Wow! I can see the difference pretty clearly and this is exactly why everyone should take photos of their comic before submitting them. My I ask what your grade screen was set as and how did you pack your books for shipping? Did you have shipping insurance?

When I first sent some books in I had a similar situation take place. I didn’t have enough foresight to take pictures but I believe one of the four books to come back to me in not as good condition. I have no clue what to blame this on.

I think CBCS is a great company (recent turnaround times excluded), and wouldn’t imagine anything intentionaly done to hurt the books. That said who knows if anyone less trained had touched the books or an accident had happens at the facility. This could have also been a shipping issue. Either way I think you have a claim to make.


Thanks for the reply. I pack all my comics for shipping in the following process (whether it's for selling or having graded)
1. Place the comic between two pieces of cardboard (per comic book), with tape on all 4 sides.
2. Combine all the comics that are individually placed between cardboard together, tape those on all sides.
3. Wrap the comics in bubble wrap and tape the bubble wrap on all sides.
4. Wrap the bubble wrap in newspaper.
5. Line the box for shipping with newspaper.
6. Add packing peanuts on the bottom and sides of the box.
7. Add the wrapped comic books.
8. Add more packing peanuts on the top of the box.
9. Add the CBCS invoice.
10. Tape the box well and add the shipping label.

I purchased insurance for around $500 through USPS after shipping the 10 comics priority mail to CBCS in July 2018. I don't know what shipping insurance amount I chose for return shipping through Fedex, but I did insure this particular comic for $150.00 (corrected from $175.00) when I filled out the invoice.

I selected a grade screen of 9.0, not because I felt the book would be in this condition (I expected a 9.6 or 9.8), but because this is the lowest grade I feel that it would even be worth paying to have the comic graded. To me there's no point in having a slabbed ASM #252 in 8.5 condition.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector andy49 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noblebeast315
Wow! I can see the difference pretty clearly and this is exactly why everyone should take photos of their comic before submitting them. My I ask what your grade screen was set as and how did you pack your books for shipping? Did you have shipping insurance?

When I first sent some books in I had a similar situation take place. I didn’t have enough foresight to take pictures but I believe one of the four books to come back to me in not as good condition. I have no clue what to blame this on.

I think CBCS is a great company (recent turnaround times excluded), and wouldn’t imagine anything intentionaly done to hurt the books. That said who knows if anyone less trained had touched the books or an accident had happens at the facility. This could have also been a shipping issue. Either way I think you have a claim to make.


Thanks for the reply. I pack all my comics for shipping in the following process (whether it's for selling or having graded)
1. Place the comic between two pieces of cardboard (per comic book), with tape on all 4 sides.
2. Combine all the comics that are individually placed between cardboard together, tape those on all sides.
3. Wrap the comics in bubble wrap and tape the bubble wrap on all sides.
4. Wrap the bubble wrap in newspaper.
5. Line the box for shipping with newspaper.
6. Add packing peanuts on the bottom and sides of the box.
7. Add the wrapped comic books.
8. Add more packing peanuts on the top of the box.
9. Add the CBCS invoice.
10. Tape the box well and add the shipping label.

I purchased insurance for around $500 through USPS after shipping the 10 comics priority mail to CBCS in July 2018. I don't know what shipping insurance amount I chose for return shipping through Fedex, but I did insure this particular comic for $175.00 when I filled out the invoice.

I selected a grade screen of 9.0, not because I felt the book would be in this condition (I expected a 9.6 or 9.8), but because this is the lowest grade I feel that it would even be worth paying to have the comic graded. To me there's no point in having a slabbed ASM #252 in 8.5 condition.
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector andy49 private msg quote post Address this user
there's something missing from your pictures if that ASM #252 wouldn't even grade at a 9.0
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
@flanders sorry to hear but might be an idea to contact CBCS first before posting here if you have not already done so
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
@flanders sorry to hear but might be an idea to contact CBCS first before posting here if you have not already done so


Thanks for the advice. I'll contact CBCS tomorrow. The intention of my post isn't to place blame on anyone, I just feel that forums in general are a pace to discuss all aspects of a specific niche, the good and the bad, as long as it's done in a respectful manner.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy49
there's something missing from your pictures if that ASM #252 wouldn't even grade at a 9.0


That's the only imperfection I notice on the comic. (I'm not the original owner and I have no grading experience, so I can't comment on if a more trained eye saw more imperfections throughout the entire comic). Unfortunately with grade screening no grade or grade notes are given if the comic doesn't meet the specific grade .
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
Wow man... Before, it was a super nice copy at least 9.6 (looks like a 9.8) from what I can see from the pic.

The after pic, I'd be pissed...
Maybe your comic got mixed up with another customers comic, if that's even a possibility, though I doubt cross contamination is possible.

Guess it was mishandled big time.... If that was my comic, I'd have posted it to the forums here too with my invoices to further prove my case.

BTW: In your after pic, right beside the word Marvel (top left corner) there is a white spot that isn't on the before pic.
Also, the after pic shows more of the back cover, like it sustained some spine-roll.
That or its not the same comic you sent in.
But that's my opinion, & I'm always thinking the worst.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@GanaSoth I highly doubt the comic I was returned wasn't the one I sent in, given that 5 out of the 6 comics I sent in that had the potential to be worth between $250-600, were all graded and returned to me today. The only comic of potentially high value that wasn't graded is the ASM #252, which leads me to believe my comics weren't damaged between shipping from my home and CBCS. If that was the case, I'd assume the comics below would not have received the grades they did. Especially when you consider my above post on how I shipped them. They were packaged carefully enough to survive going over Niagara Falls.


The highest potential value comics I sent in are:
ASM #252, 298, 361, 361 Signed by Mark Bagley, Wolverine #1 Limited Series (2 copies)

The highest grades I received are:

18-2635F94-005 9.8
18-2635F94-006 9.6
18-2635F94-007 9.6
18-2635F94-010 9.6
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
Wow man... Before, it was a super nice copy at least 9.6 (looks like a 9.8) from what I can see from the pic.

The after pic, I'd be pissed...
Maybe your comic got mixed up with another customers comic, if that's even a possibility, though I doubt cross contamination is possible.

Guess it was mishandled big time.... If that was my comic, I'd have posted it to the forums here too with my invoices to further prove my case.

BTW: In your after pic, right beside the word Marvel (top left corner) there is a white spot that isn't on the before pic.
Also, the after pic shows more of the back cover, like it sustained some spine-roll.
That or its not the same comic you sent in.
But that's my opinion, & I'm always thinking the worst.


Thanks for pointing that out in the photos. Those definitely aren't there in the before photo. You can see that those creases extend all the way to the beginning of the Marvel logo, which weren't there at all before I shipped it.
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Collector Frontier2Xterra private msg quote post Address this user
Man, I dunno. That slight spine roll really makes you wonder if that’s even the same book.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontier2Xterra
Man, I dunno. That slight spine roll really makes you wonder if that’s even the same book.
I was thinking the same. A color break can come from just a moment of bad handling, but a spine roll (even a slight one) is usually something a book gets over time.
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Collector B3Chandler private msg quote post Address this user
One thing is for sure I'm definitely doing before and after pictures just to see if there was any shenanigans involved.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
@flanders What kind of tape did you use? Scotch or blue painters?

Also, when you taped them together or to the boards, did you tape along the spine?

Whenever I ship comics I only tape to boards along the top and bottom..otherwise the tape could pinch he spine and create spine ticks during shipment. Also scotch tape can be difficult to remove and if people are rushing they could pull on the bag aggressively enough that it bends the comic.

If you need to tape along the long edges, make sure the cardboard extends a good distance away from the spine. And use blue painters tape.

Just some thoughts.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@Drogio I definitely didn't use blue painters tape. After putting the comic between two pieces of cardboard, after it was already bagged and boarded (just to clarify that I'm not a complete moron that would put a comic book with no protection between cardboard), I taped the outside of the cardboard in 4 different places: top middle, bottom middle, left middle, right middle. Based on what you're saying it may be possible that the tape came in contact with the spine, but I packed it in a way where I don't think any movement within the cardboard is possible. I always overpack so I'm sure it was a bit of a disaster to unpack my comics. Like I said in my first post, I'm not looking to blame anyone, this may be completely my responsibility, just looking for feedback and at this point based on what you're saying I should probably just be happy that I didn't cause more damage, if I did in fact ship my comics in a way that could lead to them being damaged. I can imagine your expression is similar to your profile pic at the moment.
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Several people have mentioned the spine roll. The first thing that popped into my head was that the before picture is in a bag and board. That would make a minor spine roll less noticeable and account for why the after picture shows more of the back cover. If there is a before picture of the front cover outside of the bag and board, that might help to clarify this issue.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O These are all the photos I have of the comic before I submitted it to CBCS. I'm not sure if I took a pic of the comic in the bag and then a second picture in the same position after removing it since it's been over 6 months since I took these photos. Thanks for the help.







Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O Also, here's a photo of how my 3 comic books that were rejected were sent back to me (I'm assuming they were rejected for not passing the grade screening I set on my invoice).
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Collector Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user
Does the left edge of the comic book look just a bit different between the two?
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector jgzachary13 private msg quote post Address this user
Interesting thread. The original pictures appear to be slightly more pixelated than the post-submission picks, which could be because the original pictures were made of the comic in the bag. For instance, in the post-submission picture, you can clearly see the (manufactured) black line below the first 0 on the newsstand UPC code running through the white. In the pre-submission pictures, you would have a difficult time clearly seeing the same line due to the pixelation.

However, is it just me or is there a lot of spine color break running beside “Introducing...the new Spider-Man!” that was not there before? I realize looking into the book may cause some damage, but that appears to be too specific and oddly placed when compared to the rest of the spine.
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Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
Hands down, it is not the same book in my opinion. Spine is dead giveaway..
Post 24 IP   flag post
TRA LA LA esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
Hands down, it is not the same book in my opinion. Spine is dead giveaway..


From the pictures posted here, I would agree. Looking at the books in the two pictures showing the front of the comics, they appear to be different books. Look at the narrow white strip along the lower spine on both pics.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
don't know if this has been mentioned already but when making a comparison between two identical objects they have to be viewed under identical conditions.....the before pic is in a bag n' board and the after pic is not....right off the bat there's going to be differences.
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
It’s the same book. It’s a shame this happened.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user
Following
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I do not think its the same book. I started on post 1 and read all the way down. The second I started reading this I thought it doesn't even look like the same book...The spine roll and the top left marvel box are different for starters. The color boldness as well.

Furthermore, if I am incorrect, then I think you pack your books too tightly. Simply put. Double box your comics and unless you are getting books witnessed for signature, you are better off mailing them in instead of dropping off at a convention where lots of clumsy hands can become a factor.

This is how I ship comics to cgc and cbcs: clickable text

If you are sending more than 1 book, alternate spines (front to back, back to front) and alternate vertical book orientations (Every other top to bottom, then bottom to top). This way also ensures you won't get tape indentations from the book placed in front of it. Don't pack so tightly, this creates spine ticks and unnecessary bends. Use moderation but just make sure things don't move around inside the smaller box.
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Collector Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user
Spideys foot seems just a hair closer to the edge of the right side in the first imgage. Also the buildings seem "fuller" on the right side second copy.
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