Microchamber Paper: Good or Bad?8188
 It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Is there a unanimous decision on whether microchamber paper is a benefit or detriment to comics? | ||
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There hasn't been any definitive judgement on the product to my knowledge. My thought is that it is more trouble than it is worth. | ||
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 Collector
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Thearrow private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I use it on my valuable silver age comics. I haven't used it long enough to see if it helps out or not but if it can slow the deterioration process down then ill take it. I think CGC still uses it. | ||
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| they do still use it. there was 3 sheets in my 181 | ||
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC uses it CBCS does not. I believe microchamber paper has an "expiry" date. When that expiry date is reached does it begin to damage the book or does it simply stop working? | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Different people have claimed that it can do both of those things. |
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Collector
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Thearrow private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't know if it will damage the book. People maybe think it damage the book after its expired time bc its suppose to trap the gases that age paper. So if they didn't change them out then the book would seem to deteriorate quicker then normal and think it was due to the paper. | ||
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 Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC The MicroChamber jury is still out. Even expiration dates are debated among experts (good luck finding anything definitive). Conflicting expert opinions should always be taken with a pH neutral grain of salt. . |
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 Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits? | ||
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Drogio Great question! |
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Here's an overview on the subject of MicroChamber efficacy from a broad-based conservation perspective. Barring the forum's collective eyes glazing over perhaps someone here will have gleaned enough from this research to achieve the necessary scientific gestalt required to move from curiosity seeker to knowledgeable expert on all things archival, but I suspect not...   clickable text |
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica Thank you for this! They definitely appear to be in the MCP Good camp! |
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 Collector
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If a book is stored in a slab or in a mylar/mylite with a fully buffered backing board microchamber paper would be pretty redundant. The single most important factor in book storage isn't the container you put a book in or what you include in the that container but the environment it is stored in. If that environment sucks microchamber paper isn't going to do much if it is good then it likely is redundant. All IMHO of course. |
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 Pictures? We don't need no stinking pictures.
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brysb private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am guessing a microchamber sheet is a good thing.? But lets predict beyond a possible apocalypse! Ha, so funny , especially with these Golden Age gems! So crazy...these comics were well preserved in those old style food bags! | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC True, and the science behind it seems reasonable, but one must also factor in financial motivations for those who produce and market MicroChamber products, given the sketchy, somewhat contradictory evidence (i.e., why do some 50, 60 & 70 year old comics survive with White or near White PQ in spite of never coming into contact with MicroChamber paper). I'd be more interested in learning what it is about the conditions under which great collections have been discovered that may contribute to the preservation of pulp paper than speculating about the benefits of archival products designed for the collector market and tested for a much shorter period of time. Food for thought. |
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have MCP in all my raw SA and GA comics (3 sheets per comic; 1st page, middle and last page) all in mylar bags and full back boards. I did this because I learned CGC put them in all their slabs. I began to question this when I learned CBCS does not do this. If MCP is redundant or inconclusive in its effectiveness then I can live with that. What I can't live with is if it actually damages comics within or after its expiry date...this is what I'm trying to find out. | ||
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 Collector
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Terry88 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Such good timing on this conversation. I have been looking into this as well and if the paper is absorbing what it's supposed to be then you can think of it as a concentration step while it pulls all the undesirables from the comic to the MC paper. If this is the case, I expect that it would have a finite lifetime and eventually the equilibrium may push the bad materials back onto the book. And it'll be doing this from a more concentrated state. Just a thought. |
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 Collector
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'd say it's good. Ink, paper, hands... most things are acidic. The closer you get to pH neutral, the better. | ||
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 Collector
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GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Think of comparing MCP with a tampon; both absorb toxins. But unlike the toxic-shock syndrome that women would get if they didn't change out or remove the expired tampon, the comic book will not die. I highly doubt CGC would open themselves up for a class-action lawsuit from them using MCP. It's not like it's absorbing mold/fungus that will eventually take over the MCP. It's just gas/air. (If it even works.) So IMO, I don't think MCP will damage the comic(s), & I really don't see a reason for using it either. |
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Collector
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've seen some indy comics where the ink was so acidic it was yellowing the inside front cover of the comic. They yellowing was in the pattern of the black inks on the first page. I can definitely see an advantage to reducing acid. I don't think three sheets will help the entire comic, but I do think it's a good thing. | ||
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I've put a lot of research into this question. The evidence certainly supports MCP doing no harm. The evidence of MCP doing good is questionable and based on some tests that are not at all how comic books are stored AND on using more MCP in a book than what CGC/collectors do. The tests showing MCP slowing down aging all used artificial aging. Books were stored in sealed environments, the temperature increased to 170+ degrees Fahrenheit, humidity increased to 90% AND THEN they pumped in pollutants. In those tests, books "interleaved" with MCP fared better, based on the number of times they could fold a page before it broke off. So basically, if you store your books in a diesel engine repair shop located in the tropics, MCP will help. Stored in your house where temperature and humidity are comfortable for humans to live? That's an unknown. If you go to the Library of Congress or Northeast Document Conservation center websites, they don't say much about MCP. When it is discussed, it IS NOT discussed in terms of preservation. Instead they typically discuss using it to absorb odors in old books and paper documents. The last question I've never found an answer to is exactly what "interleaving" means. In all the tests, books were "interleaved" with MCP. It seems likely that "interleaving" is more than one or two sheets of MCP in a 32 to 100 page comic book. So in summary - as others have said - my research indicates it can't be doing any harm and how much good it's doing is questionable. |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by X51 Yes, what you discuss here is actually using a "barrier" type paper. A different idea and one that has merit. Shielding higher quality paper (the covers) from lower interior quality paper that is more acidic. Any quality, acid free paper will do for this. It doesn't need to be some fancy paper that has micro chambers that are designed to trap stuff. But the bottom line is the best thing collectors can do for the comics is proper storage. Just like Goldilocks. Not to cold, not to hot. Not to humid, not to dry. And dark. little to no light. Fortunately, this is easy to do. If you are comfortable. so are your comics. If you think it's hot and muggy, so do your comics. And boxes keep comics in the dark. |
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Collector
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan We're in agreement. With reasonable storage conditions, my comics are going to outlast me even if I never change the bags (Mylar or not). I don't sit around worrying about it. |
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 Collector
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GanaSothI thought cgc recommended changing out the paper every 10 or so years? |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Wraith For a time they did. I believe it was seven years. But that recommendation has not been on their website for years now. Since moving away from Barex for the inner holder (which is no longer manufactured) to the type of material (PETG or similar) that CBCS uses they now say it's not necessary to change the MCP because the inner holder is a bit more breathable. The same reason CBCS says MCP isn't necessary. |
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 Collector
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B3Chandler private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Great conversations going back and forth in this thread. I had asked in another thread if reslabbing an older CBCS case is worth it if you had an older 70's/80's comic inside of it? | ||
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Leftover Sundae Gnus
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CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I'd love to see the scientific research papers that produced these differing conclusions. |
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 Collector
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JMR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I will chime in to say that MC paper helps reduce odors on older books. You can even smell the odor transfer to the MC paper after just a week or two. | ||
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Collector
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GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @JMR but..... I love the smell of old comics and books... | ||
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Collector
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B3Chandler private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GanaSoth Don't forget that new plastic smell too when your opening electronics for the first time. |
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