Not a CBCS member yet? Join now »
CBCS Comics
Not a CBCS member yet? Join now »

Microchamber Paper: Good or Bad?8188

Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Is there a unanimous decision on whether microchamber paper is a benefit or detriment to comics?
Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
There hasn't been any definitive judgement on the product to my knowledge. My thought is that it is more trouble than it is worth.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Thearrow private msg quote post Address this user
I use it on my valuable silver age comics. I haven't used it long enough to see if it helps out or not but if it can slow the deterioration process down then ill take it. I think CGC still uses it.
Post 3 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
they do still use it. there was 3 sheets in my 181
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
CGC uses it CBCS does not. I believe microchamber paper has an "expiry" date. When that expiry date is reached does it begin to damage the book or does it simply stop working?
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
When that expiry date is reached does it begin to damage the book or does it simply stop working?

Different people have claimed that it can do both of those things.
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector Thearrow private msg quote post Address this user
I don't know if it will damage the book. People maybe think it damage the book after its expired time bc its suppose to trap the gases that age paper. So if they didn't change them out then the book would seem to deteriorate quicker then normal and think it was due to the paper.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
CGC uses it CBCS does not. I believe microchamber paper has an "expiry" date. When that expiry date is reached does it begin to damage the book or does it simply stop working?


The MicroChamber jury is still out. Even expiration dates are debated among experts (good luck finding anything definitive). Conflicting expert opinions should always be taken with a pH neutral grain of salt.
.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits?
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits?


Great question!
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits?


Great question!


Here's an overview on the subject of MicroChamber efficacy from a broad-based conservation perspective. Barring the forum's collective eyes glazing over perhaps someone here will have gleaned enough from this research to achieve the necessary scientific gestalt required to move from curiosity seeker to knowledgeable expert on all things archival, but I suspect not...

clickable text
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits?


Great question!


Here's an overview on the subject of MicroChamber efficacy from a broad-based conservation perspective. Barring the forum's collective eyes glazing over perhaps someone here will have gleaned enough from this research to achieve the necessary scientific gestalt required to move from curiosity seeker to knowledgeable expert on all things archival, but I suspect not...

clickable text


Thank you for this! They definitely appear to be in the MCP Good camp!
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
If a book is stored in a slab or in a mylar/mylite with a fully buffered backing board microchamber paper would be pretty redundant. The single most important factor in book storage isn't the container you put a book in or what you include in the that container but the environment it is stored in. If that environment sucks microchamber paper isn't going to do much if it is good then it likely is redundant.

All IMHO of course.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector brysb private msg quote post Address this user
I am guessing a microchamber sheet is a good thing.? But lets predict beyond a possible apocalypse! Ha, so funny , especially with these Golden Age gems! So crazy...these comics were well preserved in those old style food bags!
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits?


Great question!


Here's an overview on the subject of MicroChamber efficacy from a broad-based conservation perspective. Barring the forum's collective eyes glazing over perhaps someone here will have gleaned enough from this research to achieve the necessary scientific gestalt required to move from curiosity seeker to knowledgeable expert on all things archival, but I suspect not...

clickable text


Thank you for this! They definitely appear to be in the MCP Good camp!


True, and the science behind it seems reasonable, but one must also factor in financial motivations for those who produce and market MicroChamber products, given the sketchy, somewhat contradictory evidence (i.e., why do some 50, 60 & 70 year old comics survive with White or near White PQ in spite of never coming into contact with MicroChamber paper).

I'd be more interested in learning what it is about the conditions under which great collections have been discovered that may contribute to the preservation of pulp paper than speculating about the benefits of archival products designed for the collector market and tested for a much shorter period of time.

Food for thought.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
I have MCP in all my raw SA and GA comics (3 sheets per comic; 1st page, middle and last page) all in mylar bags and full back boards. I did this because I learned CGC put them in all their slabs. I began to question this when I learned CBCS does not do this. If MCP is redundant or inconclusive in its effectiveness then I can live with that. What I can't live with is if it actually damages comics within or after its expiry date...this is what I'm trying to find out.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector Terry88 private msg quote post Address this user
Such good timing on this conversation.

I have been looking into this as well and if the paper is absorbing what it's supposed to be then you can think of it as a concentration step while it pulls all the undesirables from the comic to the MC paper.

If this is the case, I expect that it would have a finite lifetime and eventually the equilibrium may push the bad materials back onto the book. And it'll be doing this from a more concentrated state.

Just a thought.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
I'd say it's good. Ink, paper, hands... most things are acidic. The closer you get to pH neutral, the better.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
Think of comparing MCP with a tampon; both absorb toxins. But unlike the toxic-shock syndrome that women would get if they didn't change out or remove the expired tampon, the comic book will not die. I highly doubt CGC would open themselves up for a class-action lawsuit from them using MCP. It's not like it's absorbing mold/fungus that will eventually take over the MCP. It's just gas/air. (If it even works.)

So IMO, I don't think MCP will damage the comic(s), & I really don't see a reason for using it either.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
I've seen some indy comics where the ink was so acidic it was yellowing the inside front cover of the comic. They yellowing was in the pattern of the black inks on the first page. I can definitely see an advantage to reducing acid. I don't think three sheets will help the entire comic, but I do think it's a good thing.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Where else is it used besides comic books or the collectible industry? Is it used for archiving historical documents or things other industries have bought into its benefits?


Great question!


I've put a lot of research into this question. The evidence certainly supports MCP doing no harm. The evidence of MCP doing good is questionable and based on some tests that are not at all how comic books are stored AND on using more MCP in a book than what CGC/collectors do.

The tests showing MCP slowing down aging all used artificial aging. Books were stored in sealed environments, the temperature increased to 170+ degrees Fahrenheit, humidity increased to 90% AND THEN they pumped in pollutants. In those tests, books "interleaved" with MCP fared better, based on the number of times they could fold a page before it broke off.

So basically, if you store your books in a diesel engine repair shop located in the tropics, MCP will help. Stored in your house where temperature and humidity are comfortable for humans to live? That's an unknown.

If you go to the Library of Congress or Northeast Document Conservation center websites, they don't say much about MCP. When it is discussed, it IS NOT discussed in terms of preservation. Instead they typically discuss using it to absorb odors in old books and paper documents.

The last question I've never found an answer to is exactly what "interleaving" means. In all the tests, books were "interleaved" with MCP. It seems likely that "interleaving" is more than one or two sheets of MCP in a 32 to 100 page comic book.

So in summary - as others have said - my research indicates it can't be doing any harm and how much good it's doing is questionable.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I've seen some indy comics where the ink was so acidic it was yellowing the inside front cover of the comic. They yellowing was in the pattern of the black inks on the first page. I can definitely see an advantage to reducing acid. I don't think three sheets will help the entire comic, but I do think it's a good thing.


Yes, what you discuss here is actually using a "barrier" type paper. A different idea and one that has merit. Shielding higher quality paper (the covers) from lower interior quality paper that is more acidic.

Any quality, acid free paper will do for this. It doesn't need to be some fancy paper that has micro chambers that are designed to trap stuff.

But the bottom line is the best thing collectors can do for the comics is proper storage. Just like Goldilocks. Not to cold, not to hot. Not to humid, not to dry. And dark. little to no light.

Fortunately, this is easy to do. If you are comfortable. so are your comics. If you think it's hot and muggy, so do your comics. And boxes keep comics in the dark.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I've seen some indy comics where the ink was so acidic it was yellowing the inside front cover of the comic. They yellowing was in the pattern of the black inks on the first page. I can definitely see an advantage to reducing acid. I don't think three sheets will help the entire comic, but I do think it's a good thing.


Yes, what you discuss here is actually using a "barrier" type paper. A different idea and one that has merit. Shielding higher quality paper (the covers) from lower interior quality paper that is more acidic.

Any quality, acid free paper will do for this. It doesn't need to be some fancy paper that has micro chambers that are designed to trap stuff.

But the bottom line is the best thing collectors can do for the comics is proper storage. Just like Goldilocks. Not to cold, not to hot. Not to humid, not to dry. And dark. little to no light.

Fortunately, this is easy to do. If you are comfortable. so are your comics. If you think it's hot and muggy, so do your comics. And boxes keep comics in the dark.


We're in agreement. With reasonable storage conditions, my comics are going to outlast me even if I never change the bags (Mylar or not). I don't sit around worrying about it.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
Think of comparing MCP with a tampon; both absorb toxins. But unlike the toxic-shock syndrome that women would get if they didn't change out or remove the expired tampon, the comic book will not die. I highly doubt CGC would open themselves up for a class-action lawsuit from them using MCP. It's not like it's absorbing mold/fungus that will eventually take over the MCP. It's just gas/air. (If it even works.)

So IMO, I don't think MCP will damage the comic(s), & I really don't see a reason for using it either.
I thought cgc recommended changing out the paper every 10 or so years?
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
Think of comparing MCP with a tampon; both absorb toxins. But unlike the toxic-shock syndrome that women would get if they didn't change out or remove the expired tampon, the comic book will not die. I highly doubt CGC would open themselves up for a class-action lawsuit from them using MCP. It's not like it's absorbing mold/fungus that will eventually take over the MCP. It's just gas/air. (If it even works.)

So IMO, I don't think MCP will damage the comic(s), & I really don't see a reason for using it either.
I thought cgc recommended changing out the paper every 10 or so years?


For a time they did. I believe it was seven years. But that recommendation has not been on their website for years now.

Since moving away from Barex for the inner holder (which is no longer manufactured) to the type of material (PETG or similar) that CBCS uses they now say it's not necessary to change the MCP because the inner holder is a bit more breathable. The same reason CBCS says MCP isn't necessary.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector B3Chandler private msg quote post Address this user
Great conversations going back and forth in this thread. I had asked in another thread if reslabbing an older CBCS case is worth it if you had an older 70's/80's comic inside of it?
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
Think of comparing MCP with a tampon; both absorb toxins. But unlike the toxic-shock syndrome that women would get if they didn't change out or remove the expired tampon, the comic book will not die. I highly doubt CGC would open themselves up for a class-action lawsuit from them using MCP. It's not like it's absorbing mold/fungus that will eventually take over the MCP. It's just gas/air. (If it even works.)

So IMO, I don't think MCP will damage the comic(s), & I really don't see a reason for using it either.
I thought cgc recommended changing out the paper every 10 or so years?


For a time they did. I believe it was seven years. But that recommendation has not been on their website for years now.

Since moving away from Barex for the inner holder (which is no longer manufactured) to the type of material (PETG or similar) that CBCS uses they now say it's not necessary to change the MCP because the inner holder is a bit more breathable. The same reason CBCS says MCP isn't necessary.


I'd love to see the scientific research papers that produced these differing conclusions.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector JMR private msg quote post Address this user
I will chime in to say that MC paper helps reduce odors on older books. You can even smell the odor transfer to the MC paper after just a week or two.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user
@JMR but..... I love the smell of old comics and books...
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector B3Chandler private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanaSoth
@JMR but..... I love the smell of old comics and books...


Don't forget that new plastic smell too when your opening electronics for the first time.
Post 30 IP   flag post
218523 32 30
Log in or sign up to compose a reply.
destitute