CBCS GRADED: FINCH VARIANT WW#38,1/100809
 Collector
|
SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have four 9.8 Wonder Woman #38's with the Finch covers, and one 9.4 for sale. There are less than 400 of these in existence! The 9.8's are $500, the 9.4 is $300. Compare to eBay and see for yourself. PM me if you're interested. | ||
| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If anyone's interested, I still have the 9.4 available for $300. | ||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Shout out to @SilverAgeFan for selling me one of these books in 9.8, I am quite pleased. Quick and courteous transaction. Thanks!!! | ||
| Post 4 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan How do you know there are less than 400 of these in existence? |
||
| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
|
DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown There was a print run of less than 40k on the regular issue, and this variant is a 1:100 retailer incentive, so there has to be at the possible most in the 390s in existence of this book. |
||
| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My guess would be that since the print run is 40,000 and this is a 1:100 variant that he assumes there were only 400 printed. But that's not really how it works. | ||
| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Swampy The print depends on how many got ordered by retailers. The retailers have the option to order 1 for every 100 regular. We have no idea how many were ordered, but the maximum theoretical number can't be greater than 1/100th of the total run, and is usually less than. | ||
| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Like I said, that's not really how it works. |
||
| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The way that my LCS owner said it works is: for every 100 issues of the regular covers that a retailer ordered, he would then receive 1 copy of the variant with the Finch cover. The print run was 39600. That translates to a maximum of 396. He didn't even order 100 for his store. But he believes in reality there are 250-300 out there. Really, only DC knows and their not talking. This is also the way the websites that discuss it have it broken down. So if anyone knows something different, please enlighten the rest of us. Special thanks to @dpiercy for his kind words! | ||
| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan Those variants are distributed to order, not printed to order. I learned that in this thread: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8842115&fpart=6 |
||
| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I see one dude's opinion that these publishers are warehousing massive extra copies of retailer incentives and zero evidence to support that opinion. | ||
| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I read the thread and found it very interesting. But, I have to stand by what I've stated here. DC themselves said the Finch cover would be available in the manner and numbers discussed as I've said. The thread you left as I read it seems to be the posters opinion based on his research of a particular Spider-Man book. I respect people's opinions but, that is in fact what they are. Opinions. Also, in the Finch WW case, as I've discussed it is how the overwhelming majority of the collecting community accepts the numbers as accurate. | ||
| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Keep reading. Larry's Comics agrees, and he knows a thing or two about variants. Junk Donkey who also knows a thing or two also confirms the sale of variants through the Diamond program. There's more facts in there then you guys are willing to admit, and I think we know why. |
||
| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan Th Diamond variant sales program is a fact. As mentioned, it's been around for a!most 15 years. Like he says, open your own Diamond account and find out for yourself. "I'd want documentation for either claim. Am I to just believe that Marvel stores extras in a room somewhere? I've never once heard of Marvel distributing old issues as new to unload a thousand extra copies. I have a hard time believing that Marvel wants to keep unsold issues on-hand and pay taxes on the assets year after year. So I still tend to think they print on an order-basis...unless someone can prove that they don't (shrug) Jerome" There are sales as you describe all the time. You need only open a diamond account to prove it to yourself |
||
| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| These are all first hand accounts by veteran dealers too, not just some Noobs. | ||
| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego I'd be willing to bet the "dude's" done more research on this and other topics than you could possibly imagine, or have done yourself. It would likely make your head spin. He even knows what an MVS is. |
||
| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Except that that number..."1:100"...means the number of regular copies that a retailer has to order to receive/be able to purchase the incentive. Beyond that, it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. AND...you have no idea that the print run was less than 40k on the regular, because Comichron only reports estimated sales in North America ONLY. Comichron does not list print runs for books sold through Diamond, and never has. That information is not disclosed by the publishers, in general. They also don't list information for standard comics sold OUTSIDE of North America (like, for example, England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, and basically anywhere else in the other 5 habitable continents that sells standard American comic books.) Unfortunately, because it's appealing to many, and appears to provide a simple explanation, it's taken hold that you can simply divide the "1:X" number into the number reported by Comichron and VOILA!...come up with the "estimated print run" of the incentive variant. Except that's not true, and never has been. It's not the way it works. |
||
| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Where do you see that? And what does "massive" mean, as you define it? And what does "zero evidence" mean, as you're using it? |
||
| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan Cool! Do you have a link to that information so I can confirm it? I'm looking forward to that. Hard data from the publishers about incentive variant print runs...indeed, MOST variant print runs...is tough to come by. Can't wait, thank you in anticipation! Quote: Originally Posted by SAF I'm not sure which poster and which Spider-Man book you're referring to, but I'll have to challenge you on the "overwhelming majority of the collecting community accepts the numbers as accurate." First, how would you go about proving something like that...? Second, the popularity of a viewpoint isn't proof of its factuality. Lots of things that have been flat out wrong (like, say, bloodletting) have been accepted by the overwhelming majority of a particular community. Proof is what is needed. |
||
| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DarthLego Well, that's not true at all, because that's not what those numbers mean. The "maximum theoretical number" is correct, IF...and this is a very big IF...you're referring only to distributed copies of the incentive variant. But that only has to do with distribution...not print run. The publishers are, of course, free to print whatever they wish, in whatever quantities they wish, of any of their variants. In fact...they can (and HAVE!) re-printed various comics without telling anyone they were doing it! (GASP!) But I digress... The print run of the incentive is only tied to how many retailers order by establishing a MINIMUM...NOT maximum...number of copies necessary to fulfill orders. Beyond that, publishers can (and do, all the time) print more than necessary to fulfill orders, and more than just the amount needed to "round out a case." |
||
| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Let's keep it civil guys. For most of us, before we buy, we tend to do a lot of research before pulling the trigger on a deal. So in the end, people tend to believe stories and articles which supports their conclusions. I respect @DocBrown, and his conclusions and research. For myself, in this particular instance, I'll go with the majority of the collecting community. I cannot allow one thread with three or four folks statements to turn upside down what most people have accepted for decades as fact. I will dig deeper for my own curiosity's sake. | ||
| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan How do you know the print run was 39,600...? Quote: Originally Posted by SAF Yes, that translates to the maximum number of copies needed to fulfill orders on North America. But what does that have to do with the print run...and can't comic shops outside of North America participate in the incentive variant program...? Quote: Originally Posted by SAF Indeed, lots of people who don't really know what they're talking about have websites that "break things down" in erroneous ways...mostly because they're ultimately trying to sell you something, and either operate out of ignorance, or want YOU to operate out of ignorance. Quote: Originally Posted by SAF Click on that link provided. Someone DOES know something different, and it's all there.  All the information you need to know is spelled out, in excruciating detail, in that thread.Hope that helps! |
||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I apologize to @DocBrown, I hit the wrong person, I meant@Swampy!! | ||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan What would it take for you to accept the truth that you've been told? Theres no Wikipedia page you can just easily Google. Do you know who Rockmyamadeus, Junk Donkey and Larry's Comics are? You do believe the Diamond variant program though, right? It's a fact that they sell variants weeks and months later. If not, please open a Diamond account to refute this. |
||
| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Swampy I'd say RMA knows a thing or two about variants, too...  |
||
| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan None of that is my research, I take no credit for any of it. |
||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
Swampy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Thats a given, since that's who Larry and Donkey were agreeing with. |
||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan Was there someone who wasn't keeping it civil...? We should absolutely keep it civil, so if I see anyone not being civil, I'll certainly say something, myself. Quote: Originally Posted by SAF Well...not to put TOO fine a point on it, but you've just listed a picture with seven copies FOR SALE. If your estimations are right, that's around 1.75% of the entire print run of the book OR MORE. That's an impressive feat! So, it's natural to want the number reported to be as low as possible. Just basic human nature at work, for which you can't be faulted. However.... I'd still like to know who the "majority of the collecting community" is who decided this? Because, realistically, we have to look at the facts, regardless of the opinions of a majority that may, or may not, exist, right...? Facts, the truth, is ultimately what matters. Quote: Originally Posted by SAF I don't think I quite understand what you mean, here. The incentive variant program is barely a decade old; the first ratio incentive variants were coming out in 2004/2005. And...again, I'm not sure who these "most people" are who are "accepting" these ideas as "fact." And...pardon me for being blunt, but...isn't the truth all that matters, even if it's just one person saying it? If 10,000,000 people think that mosquitos are a type of cat, and 1 person says they're actually insects...does it matter that 10,000,000 people think otherwise...? |
||
| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
|
Collector
|
DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Personally, I am saddened when people become entrenched with false information, simply because that's just what they've always heard, or it seems simple, or they're trying to sell something, or some other reason, and become unwilling to consider the facts of the matter. The incentive variant program isn't rocket science, but it does manage to throw a few curveballs at folks who try to understand it. Hopefully, people will have desire to get at the truth of the matter. |
||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
This topic is archived. Start new topic?