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CBCS GRADED: FINCH VARIANT WW#38,1/100809

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Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego It's just that the phrase "something is being sold" has commonly been used in the English language when someone is discussing something someone is selling. If I had said "people are asking high prices..." it certainly would have been more concise to my question. I just feel that human beings on this forum are smart enough to judge from the context of a conversation the correct meaning I was intending. Do we really need to be picking apart common English phrases just to ensure they worded in a 100% accurate way that no misinterpretation will ever happen? If there's misunderstanding? Yes. Absolutely. English is a funny language, after all. Perhaps instead of "I just noticed that older editions of the Overstreet Grading Guide are being sold on Amazon and ebay for crazy high prices"... ...which would reasonably lead someone to think that they are actually selling for those prices, you might say "I just noticed that older editions of the Overstreet Grading Guide are listed on Amazon and ebay for crazy high prices."
	8 years ago	Post 76 • IP flag post

Collector 391	391 SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Thanks@DocBrown, I accept that!
	8 years ago	Post 77 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan @MR_SigS, I like you too Sig! My belief concerning @DocBrown stems from this. It's very apparent and obvious that he is highly intelligent, extremely well read and extraordinarily capable of transferring what he's thinking into the written word. As you alluded to earlier to Darth, we must always be careful and choose wisely our words new collectors, people new to the forum/community could have seen my post selling the books and my honest belief in the numbers, then read the things he had to say. At that point, because of his statements, people could have thought I was a liar, a cheat, a huckster and a host of other unpleasant things. With his demonstrated intelligence, to me, there's no way not to have considered that there very likely could be people out there whom would have taken a negative view of me based on his statements. Thank you for your compliments. But there would be a simple way to address your concern that a question about the supposed print run would lead people to think you might be a "liar, cheat, huckster, etc." and that would be to say, in a later post, "I was mistaken about the number. It turns out I was misinformed. My apologies to anyone who may have been misled by my statement." Easy peasy. I only asked a question. If people take a dim view of you based on a simple question...well, you have to ask yourself if you really want to do business with those people, who would rush to such an egregious judgment on so little evidence...right?
	8 years ago	Post 78 • IP flag post

Collector 391	391 SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	To everyone out there whom has enjoyed the whimsical banter being displayed here. Neither one of us(without DC stepping in) can prove our point. If your interested in formulating an opinion, I'd suggest you start at your LCS, research the various websites concerning the estimated print run, talk to fellow collectors about the numbers they've heard and read about, check the different auction sites for recent actual sales prices and definitely judge for yourselves.
	8 years ago	Post 79 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan @MR_SigS, I like you too Sig! My belief concerning @DocBrown stems from this. It's very apparent and obvious that he is highly intelligent, extremely well read and extraordinarily capable of transferring what he's thinking into the written word. As you alluded to earlier to Darth, we must always be careful and choose wisely our words new collectors, people new to the forum/community could have seen my post telling of the books and my honest belief in the numbers, then read the things he had to say. At that point, because of his statements, people could have thought I was a liar, a cheat, a huckster and a host of other unpleasant things. With his demonstrated intelligence, to me, there's no way not to have considered that there very likely could be people out there whom would have taken a negative view of me based on his statements. I think the only reason it may appear this way is because several times he asked for links and other sources backing what you were saying, and they were not provided. To be fair, or to be the devil's advocate if you will, a new person reading this conversation may wonder why these sources aren't being provided, even if every one of Doc's requests were simply stated as, "Please provide links", and nothing else. Believe me, if you had just said something to the effect of not having those sources, he probably wouldn't have requested them repeatedly. Unless, of course, these sources continued to be referenced.
	8 years ago	Post 80 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan To everyone out there whom has enjoyed the whimsical banter being displayed here. Neither one of us(without DC stepping in) can prove our point. If your interested in formulating an opinion, I'd suggest you start at your LCS, research the various websites concerning the estimated print run, talk to fellow collectors about the numbers they've heard and read about, check the different auction sites for recent actual sales prices and definitely judge for yourselves. Absolutely! As crazy as Moderns can get these days, always take info with a grain of salt, especially if the info being relayed can be traced only as far as the people selling the book (comic shops, dealers, etc.). It's your money. Relying on others to do all the research for you could result in you're having a lot less of it. Grain size may vary depending on the information and the source.
	8 years ago	Post 81 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Swampy Quote: Originally Posted by DarthLego It's just that the phrase "something is being sold" has commonly been used in the English language when someone is discussing something someone is selling. If I had said "people are asking high prices..." it certainly would have been more concise to my question. I just feel that human beings on this forum are smart enough to judge from the context of a conversation the correct meaning I was intending. Do we really need to be picking apart common English phrases just to ensure they worded in a 100% accurate way that no misinterpretation will ever happen? Mean what you say, say what you mean. Thanks, Swampy. I was trying to reply. But I couldn't see the keyboard, my head was shaking so much.
	8 years ago	Post 82 • IP flag post

Collector 391	391 SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Thanks Sig for once again clearing things up a bit. I'm good with Doc. And respect his position.over a year and a half ago, when my LCS owner turned me onto the book, I googled everything I could about it and spent hours reading all the posts, all the advice, all the websites with any information on print runs, talked to other collectors and other shop owners and got their thoughts. That's where I got my info from. I NEVER considered that I should have wrote it all down. So in the absence of DC giving out any information about the actual print run, I'm staying with my statements.
	8 years ago	Post 83 • IP flag post

Collector

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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
To everyone out there whom has enjoyed the whimsical banter being displayed here. Neither one of us(without DC stepping in) can prove our point.

Hold on a sec. That's not true.

I've proven that we don't know what the print runs of incentive variants are, for the most part, and why that is, and why it's detrimental to listen to those who claim they know. I wasn't trying to "prove" that the print run was any specific number, while you had claimed it was a specific number...the burden of proof always rests on the claimant, not the challenger.

I don't want anyone getting the impression that I've made any points (claims) I cannot prove, which is the impression one might get from your statement.

I have said, quite plainly, that we simply don't know, and there's no "proof" required to make that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAF
If your interested in formulating an opinion, I'd suggest you start at your LCS, research the various websites concerning the estimated print run, talk to fellow collectors about the numbers they've heard and read about, check the different auction sites for recent actual sales prices and definitely judge for yourselves.

Actually, I would recommend that people AVOID talking to their LCS (which are frequently hotbeds of misinformation) or various websites concerning "estimated print runs" of incentive variants, because those are even worse hotbeds of misinformation.

Did you see the example of the USM #1 DF that I posted above? You know, where "Recalled Comics.com" posts the "estimated print run" of "5,000"...being either unaware of, or ignoring, the fact that an additional 2,500 copies were signed and hand numbered, bringing the knowable estimate to 7,500 (at least), a difference of 50%?

What I would recommend is that people learn about the incentive variant program, how it works, and what the numbers mean. I would even go so far as calling Diamond, but unless you have an account, Diamond is a bit loathe to answer these types of questions directly. But, this IS where a LCS or someone with a Diamond account would be helpful.

Go to the source. Get the information, as much you can, and especially avoid the unqualified opinions of those don't understand what the numbers actually mean. If a person doesn't understand what the numbers at Comichron actually represent, and think that "estimated sales in North America" = "print run", how valid is their guess about anything else?

Accurate information on the incentive variant program IS available, for those willing to take the time to do the research.

8 years ago

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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
Thanks Sig for once again clearing things up a bit. I'm good with Doc. And respect his position.over a year and a half ago, when my LCS owner turned me onto the book, I googled everything I could about it and spent hours reading all the posts, all the advice, all the websites with any information on print runs, talked to other collectors and other shop owners and got their thoughts. That's where I got my info from. I NEVER considered that I should have wrote it all down.

If you googled it then, I'm not sure why it isn't possible to google it now, or why you cannot provide any further evidence for why you think there is "less than 400 copies in existence!" Can you explain that...?

Shouldn't that same information still be there...? I mean, even Recalled Comics.com estimates that there are "500+" in existence, and they are wrong on a regular basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAF
So in the absence of DC giving out any information about the actual print run, I'm staying with my statements.

So...

I think I've very clearly and meticulously laid out the case for why using the distribution ratio and the sales numbers reported by Diamond to Comichron isn't accurate in any way for determining the print runs of the incentive variants...

...and despite the fact that the census, in a little over a year and a half, already shows 86 grading events for this book, indicating a print run substantially higher than "less than 400 copies"...

...you're going to stand by your claim that there are "less 400 copies in existence!", a number you cannot possibly know, in the face of a meticulous explanation for why you cannot possibly know that...

...but you're upset at me because you think my question about how you know that there are less then 400 copies in existence would lead people to question your honesty and integrity, rather than your own insistence of standing by your original statements, despite having no evidence to support them...?

Really...?

8 years ago

Collector 391	391 SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Thanks for being open and forthright with me Doc. I believe that that's what makes forums such as these so vitally important. Getting as much information out there so people can make informed, fact based judgements that lead to people making great decisions!
	8 years ago	Post 86 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Ok.
	8 years ago	Post 87 • IP flag post

Collector 391	391 SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	So, what do you collect Doc? I'm partial to 1960's Marvel superheroes. But right now, I'm working on the complete Tomb of Dracula run from the 70's go figure!
	8 years ago	Post 88 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@SilverAgeFan Good choice!
	8 years ago	Post 89 • IP flag post

Collector 391	391 SilverAgeFan private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Thanks Sig. TOD has always been one of my favorites. I lived the artwork and the fact that they actually showed Dracula with a heart on occasion !
	8 years ago	Post 90 • IP flag post

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