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Comics Bronze AgeComics Restoration and ConservationGrading Help Needed

Marvel Value Stamp cut out, but still have the stamp.8058

Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
There is so much speculation on the outcome of this problem, the only real answer (prior to actually having the book graded) would be to hear from someone at CBCS.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
could locate a trash copy that has an intact stamp page and replace instead though expensive cheaper than paying a restoration pro
That's actually a great idea. Except the staples will be in a different place, but extra staple holes on one page is better than no value stamp.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGJackster
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic
CaptainCanuck- by restoration, I meant sending out to a restoration specialist where I imagine they would use a mixture of old comic book newsprint dust and glue to mend the cuts so you might not even be able to tell at first glance it had been removed. I understand slipping it between the pages would not constitute restoration from a grading standpoint.


If you go down that road, I don't think it would be considered restoration. With the piece reattached, it would then be classified as “conservation”. Conservation also includes tear seals, support, staple replacement and certain kinds of cleaning.


This sounds like a good solution then. This would be most analogous to a tear seal. It's just 4 connected tears, essentially.
Post 28 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@GAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
a retained cut out piece is not the same as a detached centerfold. A detached ceterfold is an intact page separated from its binding. A cut out is a damaged page. I agree with @X51 on this..to a collector, retained piece or not the damage is the same.

I believe CBCS would grade this exactly the same as if it was missing and even likely state the piece is missing as they do not encapsulate separated pieces with comics.

The grader will determine the book to be either intact or separated, can’t be both.

I was comparing a detached page to a page that has the MVS cut out. The detached page is complete and intact (to itself) while the other page is incomplete and not intact (MVS cut out).
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
could locate a trash copy that has an intact stamp page and replace instead though expensive cheaper than paying a restoration pro
That's actually a great idea. Except the staples will be in a different place, but extra staple holes on one page is better than no value stamp.


That would be married pages.
Post 30 IP   flag post


Collector Venomade private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@Venomade

Married would mean not original stamp.


Exactly and how would CBCS know if it’s the original stamp? They wouldn’t I think.
Post 31 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomade
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@Venomade

Married would mean not original stamp.


Exactly and how would CBCS know if it’s the original stamp? They wouldn’t I think.


The married stamp would have to be a perfect fit which is practically impossible.
Post 32 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC

I think OP mentioned that it was a very clean cut and would fit back in. Like a puzzle piece lol
Post 33 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@GAC

I think OP mentioned that it was a very clean cut and would fit back in. Like a puzzle piece lol


Ah....right..so I think it's been answered then...CGC and CBCS wont encapsulate loose material so that would make the book "missing" the MVS. If he gets the MVS taped in or sealed, professionally or otherwise, it gets a restored designation.
Post 34 IP   flag post
Forum Crier OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC Why don't you think it would be conserved?
Post 35 IP   flag post
Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
I think the best answer would come from Steve Ricketts. Any word on this Steve?
Post 36 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGJackster
@GAC Why don't you think it would be conserved?


Here's the definitions...an arguement can be made for either side but Conservation does sound more likely.

Restoration is a procedure in which additive elements are used in order to enhance the appearance of a comic by covering or removing any damage found on a comic.

Conservation is a process used to prevent the deterioration and further destruction of a comic.
Post 37 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@BrianGreensnips

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
I think the best answer would come from Steve Ricketts. Any word on this Steve?

Already paged him earlier in the thread. Maybe they don’t know either and they’re discussing it lol
Post 38 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
I did briefly look for marvel value stamps removed and through the comserved listings in eBay....there aren't a lot of examples to go by. Need a cbcs rep to weigh in...seems a simple straight forward case.
Post 39 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
If you reattached the stamp with regular Scotch tape. CGC would evaluate the book as if the stamp was missing and would get a green qualified label with notation stamp reattached with tape. CBCS from what I comprehend does not give What If grades, would grade accordingly incomplete as likely a 1.0 or 0.5 with a notation that stamp reattached with tape.
Post 40 IP   flag post
Forum Crier OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
Until we hear from @SteveRicketts,

This is how CGC defines conservation.

Introduction of the Conservation Scale
Specific repairs done to improve the structural integrity and long-term preservation of a comic book will now be classified as “conservation” and designated with a blue / purple label. These repairs include tear seals, support, staple replacement, piece reattachment and certain kinds of cleaning.
Because all conservation repairs must be professionally done and slight in nature (A-1), the label will simply say “Conservation” with no designation of quality or quantity on the label.

@NightRelic sounded like he may seek out professional repairs to reattatch the original piece. If this is done, I still think this would fall under conservation and not restoration by definition.
Post 41 IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
I suppose we should look at this as if a page was torn out or cut out and still with the book. What then would be outcome? This after all is ostensibly no different.
Post 42 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
If you reattached the stamp with regular Scotch tape. CGC would evaluate the book as if the stamp was missing and would get a green qualified label with notation stamp reattached with tape. CBCS from what I comprehend does not give What If grades, would grade accordingly incomplete as likely a 1.0 or 0.5 with a notation that stamp reattached with tape.


CBCS does not give "What if" grades, BUT it looks as if tape is acceptable starting in the Fine (7.0-5.5) range according to their posted grading guidelines. It goes from very small amount to excessive amount the further down the scale you go. Now, whether that would be noted as restoration or conservation, I have no idea.
Post 43 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user


Post 44 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user


Post 45 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
Thought you all might like to see the actual goods.
Post 46 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
.
@NightRelic
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic



It really does seem to fit in there like a puzzle piece.

This is a very interesting situation.
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Post 47 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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@NightRelic

Don’t know about CBCS, but this a quote from CGC:

“Currently, CGC’s stance on tape allows for its presence to fix a detached cover, a tear or to re-attach a piece of the comic. This would still allow the book to receive a Universal Label and even a possible grade increase from what the book would have been had tape not been present.”

This pretty much sums it up.
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Post 48 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
.
@NightRelic

Don’t know about CBCS, but this a quote from CGC:

“Currently, CGC’s stance on tape allows for its presence to fix a detached cover, a tear or to re-attach a piece of the comic. This would still allow the book to receive a Universal Label and even a possible grade increase from what the book would have been had tape not been present.”

This pretty much sums it up.
.


This is so old its not relevant today.
Post 49 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
After consideration of the expressed views of the community and assessment of the practice, beginning with submissions postmarked after May 3, 2013, CGC will modify its grading standard and ignore the presence of tape if it serves a function (such as fixing a tear or spine split) and instead grade the book as if it was not present. Therefore, any existing defect will be graded accordingly. If the tape does not serve a function, the tape will be treated as a defect and the book will be downgraded. By doing this, books will still receive a Universal Label but the grade will better reflect the actual condition of the comic book.

“As the trusted grading authority in the hobby of comic collecting we feel this new policy better serves collectors and protects the integrity of the books,” said Paul Litch, CGC’s primary grader and restoration detection specialist. “We’re grateful to the collectors and dealers who have come to depend on us. Most importantly, we value their trust and opinion and are constantly striving to serve the best interests of the community.”

Books with tape that have already been graded by CGC will retain their grade, but any books that are resubmitted will fall under the new criteria and be graded accordingly. CGC will continue to note tape on the label, as it has always done, whenever and wherever it is found on a book.

Anyone with questions can contact CGC customer service at 877-662-6642.
Post 50 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@Homer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
After consideration of the expressed views of the community and assessment of the practice, beginning with submissions postmarked after May 3, 2013, CGC will modify its grading standard and ignore the presence of tape if it serves a function (such as fixing a tear or spine split) and instead grade the book as if it was not present. Therefore, any existing defect will be graded accordingly. If the tape does not serve a function, the tape will be treated as a defect and the book will be downgraded. By doing this, books will still receive a Universal Label but the grade will better reflect the actual condition of the comic book.

“As the trusted grading authority in the hobby of comic collecting we feel this new policy better serves collectors and protects the integrity of the books,” said Paul Litch, CGC’s primary grader and restoration detection specialist. “We’re grateful to the collectors and dealers who have come to depend on us. Most importantly, we value their trust and opinion and are constantly striving to serve the best interests of the community.”

Books with tape that have already been graded by CGC will retain their grade, but any books that are resubmitted will fall under the new criteria and be graded accordingly. CGC will continue to note tape on the label, as it has always done, whenever and wherever it is found on a book.

Anyone with questions can contact CGC customer service at 877-662-6642.


My bad, with tape CGC won’t give it an upgrade, but it won’t receive a downgrade either and it won’t be labelled “conserved” or “restored”.

I’m saying that according to CGC, if the tape serves a function, it won’t downgrade the book and will still get a Univetsal grade.

Not sure what your stance is. Are you saying that taping the MVS back in, doesn’t serve a function?

I guess taping it back in would just lead to more damage in the long run.
Post 51 IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@Homer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
After consideration of the expressed views of the community and assessment of the practice, beginning with submissions postmarked after May 3, 2013, CGC will modify its grading standard and ignore the presence of tape if it serves a function (such as fixing a tear or spine split) and instead grade the book as if it was not present. Therefore, any existing defect will be graded accordingly. If the tape does not serve a function, the tape will be treated as a defect and the book will be downgraded. By doing this, books will still receive a Universal Label but the grade will better reflect the actual condition of the comic book.

“As the trusted grading authority in the hobby of comic collecting we feel this new policy better serves collectors and protects the integrity of the books,” said Paul Litch, CGC’s primary grader and restoration detection specialist. “We’re grateful to the collectors and dealers who have come to depend on us. Most importantly, we value their trust and opinion and are constantly striving to serve the best interests of the community.”

Books with tape that have already been graded by CGC will retain their grade, but any books that are resubmitted will fall under the new criteria and be graded accordingly. CGC will continue to note tape on the label, as it has always done, whenever and wherever it is found on a book.

Anyone with questions can contact CGC customer service at 877-662-6642.


My bad, with tape CGC won’t give it an upgrade, but it won’t receive a downgrade either and it won’t be labelled “conserved” or “restored”.

I’m saying that according to CGC, if the tape serves a function, it won’t downgrade the book and will still get a Univetsal grade.

Not sure what your stance is. Are you saying that taping the MVS back in, doesn’t serve a function?

I guess taping it back in would just lead to more damage in the long run.


A conundrum then. To place the cut-out stamp in situ or to tape it in. Considering that the adhesive on the tape will eventually migrate and cause harm (particularly whilst sealed indie the case).
Post 52 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
If this book was slabbed would it come back as a .5 incomplete or grade higher? Is the missing piece significant enough to warrant a .5?


Post 53 IP   flag post
I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC - I think it would grade around a 1.5 to 1.8, but that’s just my guess. According to CBCS grading descriptions, you could get up to a 3.0 with a cut coupon. Since this interferes with the art/story, I think it would take a bigger hit than if It didn’t. Too bad, you don’t see an Avengers #1 every day (at least I don’t).
Post 54 IP   flag post
Beaten by boat oars Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
So if I slap some Kentucky Chrome on a spine split, then CGC just ignores it?
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