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Comics Bronze AgeComics Restoration and ConservationGrading Help Needed

Marvel Value Stamp cut out, but still have the stamp.8058

Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
Hi all,
Here's my first question. When I was a kid, I cut out my Marvel Value Stamps. I know without the stamp it decreases the grade considerably, but somehow I managed to hang on to all my removed stamps for the past 40 years. My question is, if I have, for example, Incredible Hulk 180 with the stamp removed, but I have the stamp, does that make less of an impact on the grade than if I didn't have the stamp? Also, when I removed these, I poked a hole in the page first and then cut around the stamp, so there isn't a slice coming in from the edge of the page. I'm wondering if this is something a bit of restoration could fix, to reinsert the stamp and how that might affect the grade. Thanks for your help!
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Thick Skinned OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
I would think it would be graded as restored with pieces added.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Send one in and find out, I’d tape it to the page rather than “restore
“ it. Restoration carries a stigma you don’t want. Might get a “conservation” note, or maybe a slight grade hit like if a part of the interior was detached from the staple but still with the book., depending on how many defects current are with the book ..but shouldn’t be referred to as restoration.

But to answer your question, A missing stamp will effect the “value” more given the slab will note that a part of the book is missing (I.e., technically incomplete)...but the grade might not suffer that much more.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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But, in this instance. The stamp isn’t “missing” 🧐
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Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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I see it this way. It’s not restoration because it’s the original stamp from the book. No different than having a detached centerfold and slipping it back in (still detached) to the center of the book.
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Post 5 IP   flag post
Thick Skinned OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
@CaptainCanuck I see where you're going with that. That would not be considered as a "piece added" because it's part of the original book. A piece added would, by definition, would be a replacement piece that was non-original. With that being said, I withdraw my first statement
Post 6 IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Page torn by X inches four times?
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
The tape idea is interesting. I guess the thing to do would be to try it with a less valuable book to see how it comes back. I may have to do this just to see what happens. I have to admit, I don't know much about the restoration label. Does it call out what was restored. My thought is if it says original Marvel Value Stamp restored to book or something like that it might not be so bad. But maybe once it's restored they wouldn't be able to tell it was the original. Such a puzzle.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
As a buyer, the damage is the same to me. Whether the loose piece is there or not, the same lack of appeal exists.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
a retained cut out piece is not the same as a detached centerfold. A detached ceterfold is an intact page separated from its binding. A cut out is a damaged page. I agree with @X51 on this..to a collector, retained piece or not the damage is the same.

I believe CBCS would grade this exactly the same as if it was missing and even likely state the piece is missing as they do not encapsulate separated pieces with comics.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
CaptainCanuck- by restoration, I meant sending out to a restoration specialist where I imagine they would use a mixture of old comic book newsprint dust and glue to mend the cuts so you might not even be able to tell at first glance it had been removed. I understand slipping it between the pages would not constitute restoration from a grading standpoint.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
And I agree with GAC this is definitely not the same as a detached centerfold. But my thinking is, it beats the completely missing stamp, by how much, I have no clue. It definitely won't be a book you could sell to a collector who could afford an uncut book, but there are a lot of low grade collectors out there who might see this as a way to owning a complete 180 on the cheap.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic
And I agree with GAC this is definitely not the same as a detached centerfold. But my thinking is, it beats the completely missing stamp, by how much, I have no clue. It definitely won't be a book you could sell to a collector who could afford an uncut book, but there are a lot of low grade collectors out there who might see this as a way to owning a complete 180 on the cheap.


Theres no question that book will be wanted but I think if you do get it slabbed, the fact that you have the cut out piece, will have no bearing on improving the grade.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
a retained cut out piece is not the same as a detached centerfold. A detached ceterfold is an intact page separated from its binding. A cut out is a damaged page. I agree with @X51 on this..to a collector, retained piece or not the damage is the same.

I believe CBCS would grade this exactly the same as if it was missing and even likely state the piece is missing as they do not encapsulate separated pieces with comics.

The grader will determine the book to be either intact or separated, can’t be both.

But, I do recognize that the cut-out is way more damaging.

It may even help the grade if the stamp was just barely attached, “hanging by a thread” as they say.

Would be interested to hear from CBCS.

Paging Dr. @SteveRicketts
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Post 14 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Once its gone, its gone brah


Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Lol 😆


Post 16 IP   flag post
TRA LA LA esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Lol 😆




Unless it’s cable!
Post 17 IP   flag post
Thick Skinned OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic
CaptainCanuck- by restoration, I meant sending out to a restoration specialist where I imagine they would use a mixture of old comic book newsprint dust and glue to mend the cuts so you might not even be able to tell at first glance it had been removed. I understand slipping it between the pages would not constitute restoration from a grading standpoint.


If you go down that road, I don't think it would be considered restoration. With the piece reattached, it would then be classified as “conservation”. Conservation also includes tear seals, support, staple replacement and certain kinds of cleaning.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector Venomade private msg quote post Address this user
Married stamp?
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@Venomade

Married would mean not original stamp.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
could locate a trash copy that has an intact stamp page and replace instead though expensive cheaper than paying a restoration pro
Post 21 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Without the stamp - 1.5-1.8


With the stamp reattached with archival tape... likely 3.0, possibly more. Not sure if those tears could break into VG territory
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Collector DJC_II private msg quote post Address this user

Post 23 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
I had a copy of ASM without the Tatooz. I removed the Tatooz from a lower grade copy and put it loose inside the better one.

As the Tatooz was loose and not attached to the book, CGC removed it and gave my book a green label CGC 9.6 "missing Tatooz".

Unless you tspe or glue the missing stamp in place neither grading company will give you credit for having the stamp.

Of course taping or gluing the stamp could be considered restoration.

It would seem that any efforts to reunite the stamp with the book would do more harm than good.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
If it's restored cgc and cbcs will provide a "fake grade" based on the restored appearance of the book. Good luck getting value out of that (if the intent is to sell for maximum returns in investment).

If it's a conserved, cgc will provide a "fake" grade (purple stripe across the top of the blue label), while cbcs (I think) will remark that conservation is present but assign a "real grade" including the conservation as a grade hit.

If the stamp is missing, then I think cgc will grade it as qualified (green label) notating the major defect "ignored " and assign a "fake grade" based on that. I believe cbcs will assign a grade accounting for the missing piece as a defect (real grade).

So I suggest looking into these scenarios on eBay for a popular book (with similar things like marvel value stamps or tattoos removed) and seeing what approach and final grade/label was assigned by both companies. If possible, compare the sales of conserved/restored grades to unconserved to see what value hit it takes.

Once you have that data, you'll have a window into what path to take. Myself d lean toward cbcs taped as the book will have all
It's original parts together, you'll get a real grade, and it'll likely present better than the grade assigned and you won't have the stigma of green or purple labels.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
There is so much speculation on the outcome of this problem, the only real answer (prior to actually having the book graded) would be to hear from someone at CBCS.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
could locate a trash copy that has an intact stamp page and replace instead though expensive cheaper than paying a restoration pro
That's actually a great idea. Except the staples will be in a different place, but extra staple holes on one page is better than no value stamp.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector NightRelic private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by OGJackster
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic
CaptainCanuck- by restoration, I meant sending out to a restoration specialist where I imagine they would use a mixture of old comic book newsprint dust and glue to mend the cuts so you might not even be able to tell at first glance it had been removed. I understand slipping it between the pages would not constitute restoration from a grading standpoint.


If you go down that road, I don't think it would be considered restoration. With the piece reattached, it would then be classified as “conservation”. Conservation also includes tear seals, support, staple replacement and certain kinds of cleaning.


This sounds like a good solution then. This would be most analogous to a tear seal. It's just 4 connected tears, essentially.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@GAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
a retained cut out piece is not the same as a detached centerfold. A detached ceterfold is an intact page separated from its binding. A cut out is a damaged page. I agree with @X51 on this..to a collector, retained piece or not the damage is the same.

I believe CBCS would grade this exactly the same as if it was missing and even likely state the piece is missing as they do not encapsulate separated pieces with comics.

The grader will determine the book to be either intact or separated, can’t be both.

I was comparing a detached page to a page that has the MVS cut out. The detached page is complete and intact (to itself) while the other page is incomplete and not intact (MVS cut out).
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRelic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
could locate a trash copy that has an intact stamp page and replace instead though expensive cheaper than paying a restoration pro
That's actually a great idea. Except the staples will be in a different place, but extra staple holes on one page is better than no value stamp.


That would be married pages.
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