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Grading Help Needed

Can a Printer Crease be on a Near Mint book?796

Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Jerkfro
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Originally Posted by stophmaster
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Originally Posted by MR_SigS
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Originally Posted by stophmaster
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Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.


Perhaps, but production flaws such as this and Marvel Chipping are not held against the grade by the leading (and not so leading, I assume) 3rd Party grading companies.

I usually avoid slabbed books that have them, unless they're 'impossible' to get without them.


I certainly understand that grading is subjective, but in this collector's humble opinion, a flaw is a flaw...period. Just my .02.


I have always found it unfortunate that things like printers creases are not considered flaws by the grading companies. They are defects and reduce the eye appeal of a comic. Same thing for miscuts and miswraps.


Ug! I hate those more than printers creases! It's funny how I can look at my perfectly wrapped Hulk 181 7.0 OWW with more than a slightly miswrapped 8.0 W
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is very odd. Could you show me a pic.

Thanks
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by poka
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Originally Posted by matterus023
I'd grade this a 5.0. Is there also a light subscription crease on the back as well?


Seems like grading is getting lower and lower. Anymore?

Matterus023 - I would be curious to learn why you think this would only get a 5.0 based on covers.


It has multiple creases and small dents all over from pics. Lots of spine stress and ticks. Plus if a stubby crease on back I'd say 5.0 is about right.

I have some 5.0s with simular wear. From my experience most people seem to overgrades in accordance to cbcs or cgc. Problem with grading companies though is inconsistency. Seen some 6.0s that look like 3.5's and vice versa. Many on ebay overgrades raw comics as they are aware many will take their word for it and overpay. Happens on a daily basis
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is the VERY common printers crease (production flaw) that most of the #241s suffer from, though there are some that don't. I'd guess the ones that don't demand top dollar.
Some are more pronounced than others. Mine just extends 1.5" from the right edge.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by MR_SigS
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is the VERY common printers crease (production flaw) that most of the #241s suffer from, though there are some that don't. I'd guess the ones that don't demand top dollar.
Some are more pronounced than others. Mine just extends about half way in from the right edge.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Here's mine. 2 on the bottom right edge.


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Beaten by boat oars Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by matterus023
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is very odd. Could you show me a pic.

Thanks

I'll post a picture this weekend when I get back into town.
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Collector rayne5446 private msg quote post Address this user
Do you all think that ebay sellers should be required to disclose printer creases on a graded book? Do you think buyers should be allowed a refund for an undisclosed printer's crease on a graded book if you have a no refund policies?

I'm actually torn on the issue. On one hand, if you are selling a graded book, you shouldn't feel like you have to annotate its flaws. On the other hand, alot of people hate that printer's creases are allowed in NM.

Curious if anyone has ever had a book returned or returned a book due to this flaw.
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Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
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Originally Posted by matterus023
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is very odd. Could you show me a pic.

Thanks

I'll post a picture this weekend when I get back into town.


Thanks but as Mr sign pointed out it was a printing error now and not a one off stubby crease I understand. If I had read you post properly I wouldn't of needed ask for a pic lol ooops
Post 34 IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by rayne5446
Do you all think that ebay sellers should be required to disclose printer creases on a graded book? Do you think buyers should be allowed a refund for an undisclosed printer's crease on a graded book if you have a no refund policies?

I'm actually torn on the issue. On one hand, if you are selling a graded book, you shouldn't feel like you have to annotate its flaws. On the other hand, alot of people hate that printer's creases are allowed in NM.

Curious if anyone has ever had a book returned or returned a book due to this flaw.


EBay is just a place Full of scammers. I am including popular dealers as well. If I wanted I could make an absolute mint from buying comics that are slabbed or more accurately graded and sell them (once cracked if slabbed) at a way higher grade. I have seen comics classed as high grade that are full of mold and are around a 3.0. A showcase 22 not long ago was listed as a 4.5 ish i believe and was closer to a 1.0. Still reached a great price for the seller though.

Some people who do this are amateurs themselves and make honest mistakes but many are not prey on newcomers to the hobby.

Be extremely careful when buying from eBay. Plus IMHO most people overgrade comics all the time even if by accident
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayne5446
Do you all think that ebay sellers should be required to disclose printer creases on a graded book? Do you think buyers should be allowed a refund for an undisclosed printer's crease on a graded book if you have a no refund policies?

I'm actually torn on the issue. On one hand, if you are selling a graded book, you shouldn't feel like you have to annotate its flaws. On the other hand, alot of people hate that printer's creases are allowed in NM.

Curious if anyone has ever had a book returned or returned a book due to this flaw.


If images are clearly displayed, I do not think the seller must disclose the crease, but it could offer potential buyers and casual onlookers a glimpse of the seller's character and integrity if he did.

Some measure of responsibility should be on the buyers part, and that includes research, especially if paying for collectibles. I know there are impulse buyers out there who buy because an item is being sold and they see it, but that's where the "clearly displayed" factors in.

But to be honest, if it's a fair price then mentioning the crease should not be a problem since potential buyers will most likely see many examples of the same in their search for this issue, and odds are if they find one without the crease, it will be spendy[er].

And unless something has changed, I don't think sellers can actually refuse refunds on eBay. The buyer almost always wins. Mentioning the crease is a great way to avoid the "not as described" ploy many buyers use to get partial refunds or even free books.

Best advice I can think of is, be the seller YOU would want to do business with, and sleep soundly at night
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Collector sterlingcomics private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by JustThatGuy
according to PGX, based on their guidelines, that book is a perfect 10.0


Isn't that nut job out of business yet?
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by sterlingcomics
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Originally Posted by JustThatGuy
according to PGX, based on their guidelines, that book is a perfect 10.0


Isn't that nut job out of business yet?

Nope, other nut jobs are keeping him in business.
Post 38 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
If I put a book up that had a production flaw I would disclose it and take pictures, it's the right thing to do for your customers. There's alot of bad sellers on eBay, but there's also a lot of good sellers on eBay too. You have to be an educated shopper and check feedback. Don't assume 99.9% feedback is good. Ebay's system is flawed, some of these sellers are doing such high volume of sales that they can get hundreds of negatives in a year and it doesn't dent their percentage.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


If printer's creases can't be on NM books, there isn't a NM copy of Cap #241, Direct market version, that exists.

The entire print run of the Direct version has printer's creases, to varying degrees, in the bottom left quadrant of the front cover.

If you find a Direct copy without one, you have found a very, very rare beast.

And it's not the only book with this problem.

I don't have any problem with printer's creases, because I know what they are.

There IS a caveat to that, though....
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