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Grading Help Needed

Can a Printer Crease be on a Near Mint book?796

Collector TruckJohnson private msg quote post Address this user
Among other flaws, there is a clearly visible printer crease in the masthead of this Shogun Warriors #1. So what grade would you give this book? Thanks.










Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector sterlingcomics private msg quote post Address this user
That book has more going on than printer creases. I'm going to go out on a limb and say VF 8.0.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
It's production related, so I believe it can.
They're supposed to NOT count against the grade, but can still affect its appeal/re-sale potential.

But even after a press I'm thinking there may be too many color breaks along the spine to earn NM, especially on the back in all that white- may be hard to see, but if the paper fiber is broken, it'll count as color break.
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
No. But this book isn't NM even without that printer crease. It's a high Fine at best in my humble opinion. Too many spine creases....
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector rayne5446 private msg quote post Address this user
I've had a couple inch printer's crease come back as an NM-, but it was probably a NM- without the crease. It was also much more subtle than that one.
Post 5 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
I have a few 9.8 books with printers creases like the one in your example.
Post 6 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Yes, a NM book can have a production crease.
No, that book is not "NM."
😉
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector roarzola private msg quote post Address this user
Good question.

I have a Walking Dead issue inside that has a printer crease the entire length of the book. It looks like one of those Mad Magazine fold-ins. It is about an 1/2 inch thick where the ink is printed on either side but if you unfold it, there is an an big gap of white down the middle.

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".

I will eventually replace it because it doesn't look good and it isn't an significant issue.
Post 8 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
The creases on the interior of some Walking Dead (and other Image books) books do count against the grade to a degree, if it is a hard definitive bend , or it breaks color.

It depends on the individual copy and the severity of the bend.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
Yes, a NM book can have a production crease.


I cannot comprehend how a book with a CREASE on the cover, production or otherwise, can be considered NM.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.


Perhaps, but production flaws such as this and Marvel Chipping are not held against the grade by the leading (and not so leading, I assume) 3rd Party grading companies.

I usually avoid slabbed books that have them, unless they're 'impossible' to get without them.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector sterlingcomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
No. But this book isn't NM even without that printer crease. It's a high Fine at best in my humble opinion. Too many spine creases....


Ugh. Getting back into grading books is a pain. Didn't see the FC action...yeah I think 6.5/7.0 might be more appropriate.

CGC hasn't impacted printer creases on book grades, but your mileage will most certainty vary among the collector community as to if it should. I personally wouldn't want a 9.8 with a printer's crease. But that's the world according to me, which is fine because I'm spending the money.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.


Perhaps, but production flaws such as this and Marvel Chipping are not held against the grade by the leading (and not so leading, I assume) 3rd Party grading companies.

I usually avoid slabbed books that have them, unless they're 'impossible' to get without them.


I certainly understand that grading is subjective, but in this collector's humble opinion, a flaw is a flaw...period. Just my .02.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingcomics
But that's the world according to me, which is fine because I'm spending the money.


Yep, and that's the bottom line for all of us, ain't it? Well said.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector TruckJohnson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
No. But this book isn't NM even without that printer crease. It's a high Fine at best in my humble opinion. Too many spine creases....


Indeed. The moment I opened the package and saw it, I didn't consider it a near mint book with or without the crease either. But the seller I bought it from on Ebay claimed it was. And for me it's not even close! By the way, the seller did not disclose the printer crease on the front cover.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector stophmaster private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckJohnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
No. But this book isn't NM even without that printer crease. It's a high Fine at best in my humble opinion. Too many spine creases....


Indeed. The moment I opened the package and saw it, I didn't consider it a near mint book with or without the crease either. But the seller I bought it from on Ebay claimed it was. And for me it's not even close! By the way, the seller did not disclose the printer crease on the front cover.


Ugh. eBay sellers are fast and loose with the "NM" grade, that's for sure. I hope you can get your money back!
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector JustThatGuy private msg quote post Address this user
according to PGX, based on their guidelines, that book is a perfect 10.0
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
I'd grade this a 5.0. Is there also a light subscription crease on the back as well?
Post 19 IP   flag post
Beaten by boat oars Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
I'd grade this a 5.0. Is there also a light subscription crease on the back as well?


Seems like grading is getting lower and lower. Anymore?

Matterus023 - I would be curious to learn why you think this would only get a 5.0 based on covers.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector zosocane private msg quote post Address this user
This book looks like a F/VFish at best. Sorry you got a raw deal and hopefully you will get your money back. Unless the eBay seller is a reputable comic book dealer (i.e., well-known or well-regarded on this Forum or the CGC Boards), be very skeptical about any claimed grade on an eBay listing and study the photos carefully. If the scans suck or if the Seller provides no returns, AVOID.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.


Perhaps, but production flaws such as this and Marvel Chipping are not held against the grade by the leading (and not so leading, I assume) 3rd Party grading companies.

I usually avoid slabbed books that have them, unless they're 'impossible' to get without them.



I certainly understand that grading is subjective, but in this collector's humble opinion, a flaw is a flaw...period. Just my .02.


I don't disagree. I hate the things and generally avoid them, and I definitely don't let the 'Prod Flaw' classification paint my glasses rosey. They're unattractive.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector Jerkfro private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.


Perhaps, but production flaws such as this and Marvel Chipping are not held against the grade by the leading (and not so leading, I assume) 3rd Party grading companies.

I usually avoid slabbed books that have them, unless they're 'impossible' to get without them.


I certainly understand that grading is subjective, but in this collector's humble opinion, a flaw is a flaw...period. Just my .02.


I have always found it unfortunate that things like printers creases are not considered flaws by the grading companies. They are defects and reduce the eye appeal of a comic. Same thing for miscuts and miswraps.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector Stronguy private msg quote post Address this user
The proper term for that is a Greggy Nutsack Crease.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkfro
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by stophmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by roarzola

The comic store owner told me it shouldn't count against the grade since it is a natural occurrence during the production and not "wear and tear".


Preposterous.


Perhaps, but production flaws such as this and Marvel Chipping are not held against the grade by the leading (and not so leading, I assume) 3rd Party grading companies.

I usually avoid slabbed books that have them, unless they're 'impossible' to get without them.


I certainly understand that grading is subjective, but in this collector's humble opinion, a flaw is a flaw...period. Just my .02.


I have always found it unfortunate that things like printers creases are not considered flaws by the grading companies. They are defects and reduce the eye appeal of a comic. Same thing for miscuts and miswraps.


Ug! I hate those more than printers creases! It's funny how I can look at my perfectly wrapped Hulk 181 7.0 OWW with more than a slightly miswrapped 8.0 W
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is very odd. Could you show me a pic.

Thanks
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector matterus023 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Quote:
Originally Posted by matterus023
I'd grade this a 5.0. Is there also a light subscription crease on the back as well?


Seems like grading is getting lower and lower. Anymore?

Matterus023 - I would be curious to learn why you think this would only get a 5.0 based on covers.


It has multiple creases and small dents all over from pics. Lots of spine stress and ticks. Plus if a stubby crease on back I'd say 5.0 is about right.

I have some 5.0s with simular wear. From my experience most people seem to overgrades in accordance to cbcs or cgc. Problem with grading companies though is inconsistency. Seen some 6.0s that look like 3.5's and vice versa. Many on ebay overgrades raw comics as they are aware many will take their word for it and overpay. Happens on a daily basis
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is the VERY common printers crease (production flaw) that most of the #241s suffer from, though there are some that don't. I'd guess the ones that don't demand top dollar.
Some are more pronounced than others. Mine just extends 1.5" from the right edge.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley
I have a Captain America #241 with a huge subscription crease through the front cover and CGC gave it a 9.6. My understanding of that book is that it is difficult to find without the crease. I don't know how the stuff works.


That is the VERY common printers crease (production flaw) that most of the #241s suffer from, though there are some that don't. I'd guess the ones that don't demand top dollar.
Some are more pronounced than others. Mine just extends about half way in from the right edge.
Post 30 IP   flag post
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