Signature Verification Failed7699
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 Collector
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oginecka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My comics are finally on the way back! Half of them were signed, but one of them doesn't have a red label and got 9.0. I'm wondering why this would happen? I have most of my sogned comics through Dynamic Forces, they all come with their little certificates (I know these aren't worth anything), but I have no reason to believe it's not an authentic signature. How does the signature verification work? Is it possible that the writer had an off day, made a lazy signature and it therefore isn't verifiable?  |
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 Collector
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BSeldin305 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That sucks. You are handling it better than I would. If you bought it directly from DF, I'd take it up with DF. |
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 Collector
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obiwan1971 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If it failed it means unfortunately it wasn’t signed by the person in question. And no an off day wouldn’t change a persons signature that much to have it fail. It is possible the person wasn’t well enough to sign and had a wife or secretary sign for them. DF sends the books to the person in question and has them returned to them. None are done in The presence of anyone from DF. That’s why many of the DF Kirby books are no good. They were signed by his wife due to his health. I’m truly sorry this happened maybe DF will make it right | ||
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Collector
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ninjarobert private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Very interesting. Since the signature was not verified, is it considered writing on the cover, and therefore, lowers the grade? | ||
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Collector
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BSeldin305 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by obiwan1971 Seems a little too absolute for my tastes..... and we know who believes in absolutes.... |
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 COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
It's difficult to say for sure why it didn't pass verification. Looking at witnessed examples of Soule's signature, the main difference I can see is the confidence with which the "C" is written. The one on your seems a bit haphazard while other examples seem very clean. Though take that with a grain of salt as I'm no expert on signature authentication. It's just my observation, nor do I take it as proof that it isn't (nor that it is) authentic.  After CBCS was purchased by Beckett, Beckett took over the signature verification duties. They don't provide a lot of detail about their process but this is what little they say Quote: Originally Posted by BeckettWebsite Additionally, Beckett is primarily a sports signature authenticator though they do have signatures on file for a variety of other areas. Looking at Beckett's site, they charge fees based on who the signer is and thus have a searchable list of names for determining price. Charles Soule is NOT on that list. I can't say if the list is fully up to date and includes all the names they can verify though I do see some names missing which could mean bad news for some books I recently sent in for verification. Interestingly, CBCS has verified other books from what I assume is the same 25 book run (Grader's Notes), it's even signed in the same location. Though it should be noted that this was from before the switch to Beckett when signature authentication was handled by CSA. Additionally, I'd point back to the "C" which looks a lot more natural than it appears on your book.  Quote: Originally Posted by ninjarobert And yes, unverified signatures are treated as writing and thus negatively affect the grade |
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 9.0 with a signature that failed verification represents CBCS changing how they grade unverified signatures. The FIRST such book I saw was easily a 9.4 or better book and it got graded 6.0-6.5. I forget which. It came up on the "fans of CBCS Facebook page". I remember commenting that 6.5 was way, way to harsh. I think 9.0 is more fair. Obiwan is incorrect. A signature failing verification does not mean it is not authentic. It just means they were UNABLE to determine it was authentic. That's why it will say it failed and not that it is a forgery. It is entirely possible for the creator that signs a comic to sign in a way that doesn't look close enough to how he/she normally signs. What was quoted from Beckett probably doesn't fully explain the process. Most signature authentication programs (and experts) use grids and plotting software to compare the signature to known examples. If the examined signature falls to far off the normal range, it will fail the process. Of course we can never prove that with COA's the book hasn't at some point been swapped. But it's likely your COA is with the right book and the signature is legit. But groups like Dynamic Forces have big signings and for all we know that may have been about the 509th time the artist signed and was just tired and getting sloppy. |
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Collector
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oginecka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks for all the information. I'll probably leave it as is an be happy for a 9.0. It's the first time I ever sent comics for grading, so I'm over the moon for the comics that did get verified. I love Michael Turner and got really nice grades on his comics.      |
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 FORMER CBCS
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Jake_Fleming private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan This is absolutely correct. We never say something is outright a forgery, but if we have any doubt about a signature we will not put our stamp of approval on it. |
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 Collector
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
been there...especially with DF. I even wrote to them and they said they'd take it up with CBCS. I think they just pacified me tbh. However, on principal (since it was not cost effective in the least), I submitted the same book 3 times over 2 years. It failed twice and passed the last time. So...I guess if you spend enough money they give you mercy pass  |
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 Collector
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comicsforme private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I thought if it failed the comic is returned as is are did he called cbcs and went with 9.0 blue label. | ||
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COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @comicsforme You have the option on the online order form to "encapsulate if verification fails" on a per signature basis. | ||
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would take the time to learn, practice and even attempt to become an expert in Charles soule forgery. Stan... of course. Kirby of course. Ditko... of course. Most of the legends who have since departed... of course. There's money to be made criminally so therefore worth it. But Charles soule? At a 20,000 foot level looking down it seems really odd. But I guess better safe than sorry |
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 Collector
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Frontier2Xterra private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Watcher This isn't exactly comforting to hear. |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Frontier2Xterra This would not cause me discomfort. Over a two year period, it's likely that more known examples of the creators signature were added to the database. Waiting a couple of years and resubmitting the book is in fact a reasonable strategy. If one is fairly certain the signature is legit. |
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Collector
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I agree on some levels with both of you..however, this was just 2 initials. The same 2 initials passed on 2 books the first time and not the third. I knew it was real..as are all my sigs...so I bet on the fact that human error can go either way..so I resubmitted the third book 2 more times. I probably would've given up after three tries, but it passed the final time. |
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 Collector
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VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wouldn't there be a notation along the lines of "writing on the cover" if the signature failed verification? | ||
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 Collector
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RyanHicks private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VaComicsGuy That notation would be in the graders notes, not on the label itself. |
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Collector
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VaComicsGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @RyanHicks Thanks. I wasn't clear and my comment made more sense in my own head. I was trying to say: Wouldn't there be a notation along the lines of "writing on the cover" if the signature failed verification? Have you checked the notes to see what they say? If there isn't a "writing on cover" notation, perhaps there was a mix up in the labeling, or the book fell through the cracks. |
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COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
@VaComicsGuy That’s a good point. Such mix-ups are not unheard of. I’ve submitted books for a yellow label come back in blue 9.8 labels with no mention of the signature or writing on the cover |
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Collector
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oginecka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My grader’s notes say: spine stress , wear & color rubs. I suppose color rubs mean the signature itself. How would I be able to tell if it actually went for a verification and failed? I’ll wait for the comics to physically return back to me and see if there is a note of some sorts that would imply that. |
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 CBCS broke up with me over Facebook.
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CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by oginecka Color rub is just that, some color rubbed off or on to the comic. The book was downgraded for writing on the cover (that is the unverified signature). Odd that it is not in the notes, but it may be that it is very obvious and they felt no need to notate it. |
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 Collector
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Darryl_H private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Keep in mind, a failed verification is not us saying it is fake, but that we couldn't verify it as legit. Tired hand, being bumped into while signing are a few ways a legit signature might not pass. |
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 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I thought that was my Wolverines DF book with the red rivets... I sold that book at auction 1 or 2 years ago | ||
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COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yup, it’s yours. Still comes up on google searches | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ah ok - I kept images on my site for google and image search results. | ||
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