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Comics Golden Age

Seduction of the Innocent7199

Collector SOTICollector private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
@SOTICollector You have some really nice pieces of history there. How did you find so many SOTI books? It took me awhile to find mine and have not run into another one since.


Well, I guess it helps that SOTI has been my primary collecting focus for quite some time. Over the years, I've connected with a good number of collectors and dealers who know that I'm always looking for SOTI-related items, so that has helped. I'm also ridiculously fortunate to have a job that allows me to afford to buy stuff like this, and an amazing and supportive wife.

The books that were toughest to find were the earliest ones. 1) First print with bibliography.(1954) 2) First print without bibliography (1954 or '55) 3)First (and only) UK edition (1955) and 4) Kennikat Press edition (1972). Of those, I've actually found the Kennikat Press one the hardest to locate, even though it's much newer than the ones that date back to the actual anti-comics hysteria days. I've been lucky enough to upgrade my first print a few times, till I ended up with one I really like.

The modern printings are not at all tough to come by. Each one claims to be a "limited edition" of 220 copies, but every time the publisher sells out of one of those "limited editions", they just print more. Where I come from, they call that "unlimited".
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I have a few. They are getting harder to find and track down in a decent grade, too.





















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Leftover Sundae Gnus CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
I have one mildly humorous anecdote that folks here might find interesting about Wertham and how he tried reaching out to comic fans in the late stxties & early seventies. It's worth noting that in an odd contrast to his crusade against comics, he actually approved of the concept of fandom, fanzines and the community it engendered. In fact, he wrote an optimistic book on fan culture.

In spite of his effort to reach out, most fans never bought into Fredric Wertham's contorted realignment on their behalf. He remained a villain in the eyes of most fans, an evangelist who'd condemned their favorite entertainment based on dicey evidence, almost destroying comic publishing as a business.

From my perspective, then as now, I couldn't forgive Wertham's pillorying of the comic industry for personal profit/fame and the damage done to some of the best publishers in the business. So, as a new member of the Oklahoma Alliance of Fans I decided to contribute a satirical comic to their monthly members only OAF fanzine titled "Frederick Worthnone, MD, PHD, DOC, etc., etc."

Reflecting back on it, my comic strip suffered from being too busy given the nature of ditto processing which involves diminishing returns from single carbon copies. That said, irrespective of the art, it was loaded with EC style puns similar to those Bill Elder frequently used in early Mad.

Alas, the one thing I didn't know at the time was that Fredric Wertham actually joined OAF in 1970 and may have seen my satirical comic in the OAF zine!

Had I known prior to submitting my critique that the subject of it might read it, I'm not sure whether I'd have been quite as condescending of his research and credentials. To this day, it's unknown to me whether Wertham ever saw my youthful satire and if he did, what he thought of it, but I've always wondered.
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
We all seem to agree that "The Seduction of the Innocent" was a major turning point for comics, but I'd like to know how the comic book industry would have turned out if Wertham's crusade had never happened and things were allowed to continue as they were. With no backlash and no Comic's Code Authority, would we have ever had the Silver Age, would superheroes have made a comeback, would Lee and Kirby have ever created the Marvel Universe?

I wonder if there is an alternate time-line out there where we could find out. I'd go ask Dr. Strange, but he's been Infinity Stoned.
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Leftover Sundae Gnus CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
We all seem to agree that "The Seduction of the Innocent" was a major turning point for comics, but I'd like to know how the comic book industry would have turned out if Wertham's crusade had never happened and things were allowed to continue as they were. With no backlash and no Comic's Code Authority, would we have ever had the Silver Age, would superheroes have made a comeback, would Lee and Kirby have ever created the Marvel Universe?

I wonder if there is an alternate time-line out there where we could find out. I'd go ask Dr. Strange, but he's been Infinity Stoned.


Without invoking Niven's Law ..."any fool can predict the past"... I think things would've evolved much differently, ...but not for the worse. Superhero comics are cyclical. Before the CCA publishers like Atlas (Timely/Marvel) were already trying to reintroduce them. It was just too early as horror was still the more popular genre.

If Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and other Marvel titles had been introduced without the CCA imposed restrictions, I'm sure that they'd have been edgier characters in more adult situations, much like the comics created after 1970 when the CCA was losing influence. Stylistically though, art styles would've been much the same, reflecting popular culture and politics of the day.

Also worth noting, D.C. didn't change much after the CCA imposed restrictions. They never published outright horror or crime comics and stories with those elements were mild by comparison with those of other publishers. Where the CCA had the greatest impact was in driving some publishers out of business and reducing the number of comics on the newsstands. However, this was not so much the fault of the CCA imposed restrictions as the paranoia that resulted from media fueled public outrage against violence in comics by reformers like Fredric Wertham.


.
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
In spite of his effort to reach out, most fans never bought into Fredric Wertham's contorted realignment on their behalf. He remained a villain in the eyes of most fans, an evangelist who'd condemned their favorite entertainment based on dicey evidence, almost destroying comic publishing as a business.


This. People like Max Gaines, Al Feldstein and Harvey Kurtzman hated him for it. Fans of EC hated him for it. He truly did become a villain, for putting an end of an era.
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
I think people of the time could not grasp that "comic books" could be for adults. They were entrenched in the mindset that comic books were a medium for kids and some of the themes beginning to appear, appealed to and reflected an older readership. The generation that was kids when comics started were now adults interested in more mature content and so, the medium just grew up with them (much to the shock and horror of some). I think Mr. Gaines tried to express this sentiment in the Senate hearing, but no one could think outside the box of comics being for kids. Maybe had some of these titles been reserved for the "adult section" of the newsstand, the narrative might have been different.
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Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
I’m pretty sure this issue of the Dynamite “Twilight Zone” series had a story inspired by Werthem’s witch hunt.

It made me chuckle.


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PEDIGREED... Again! martymann private msg quote post Address this user
EC Comics were not always that easy to find on the newsstand...
some dealers didn't display them at all and others placed them
on the very top of the rack where it was tough for kids to reach.
Most of my EC Horror and Crime comics are remainder issues...the
stores that had them were also the stores that were selling single
cigarettes to kids for two-cents each.



OO

mm
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I would have taken a cigarette and a Vault of Horror comic any day of the week at 10 yrs old back in the day, lol
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Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by martymann
EC Comics were not always that easy to find on the newsstand...
some dealers didn't display them at all and others placed them
on the very top of the rack where it was tough for kids to reach.
Most of my EC Horror and Crime comics are remainder issues...the
stores that had them were also the stores that were selling single
cigarettes to kids for two-cents each.



OO

mm
Very interesting. It would be so interesting to see all those old EC and Timely comicbooks on the rack. Spinner racks was the earliest display that I can remember. Those were so cool. I want one for my man cave.
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I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
I would have taken a cigarette and a Vault of Horror comic any day of the week at 10 yrs old back in the day, lol


I don’t remember 2 cent cigarettes (I remember the cigarette vending machines that gave you a pack of cigs and matches for 50 cents) or even buying 10 cent comics, but I remember when you could get two 12 cent comics and a piece or two of candy for a quarter.
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PEDIGREED... Again! martymann private msg quote post Address this user
Aboard ship "SEA STORES" cigarettes were 80 cents a carton...
including all popular brands.

Marty
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PEDIGREED... Again! martymann private msg quote post Address this user
Here's a couple more that are listed in SOTI*.



OO



OO

www.lostsoti.org

mm
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PEDIGREED... Again! martymann private msg quote post Address this user


OO

mm
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Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by martymann


OO

mm


Very cool. I love the original novella. It’s one of my all time favorites. I might have to try & track one of these down!
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Collector michaelekrupp private msg quote post Address this user


This is a must own book for EC collectors and people interested in SOTI era comics. Among other historically relevant and fascinating bits of information, this includes the complete transcripts of Bill Gaines’ testimony before the senate subcommittee in 1954. It’s definitely a window into how things were at the height of the anti comic book hysteria.
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelekrupp


This is a must own book for EC collectors and people interested in SOTI era comics. Among other historically relevant and fascinating bits of information, this includes the complete transcripts of Bill Gaines’ testimony before the senate subcommittee in 1954. It’s definitely a window into how things were at the height of the anti comic book hysteria.


My copy is a first print with dust jacket, signed and numbered by the author, well used and well read copy.
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Collector kash private msg quote post Address this user
Picked up a few more this week


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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Wow love the crime and punishment #2 holy cow

My son’s name is Cash. I approve your username✌🏻
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Collector kash private msg quote post Address this user
That's what my momma named me :-) (It was my father's name too)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Wow love the crime and punishment #2 holy cow

My son’s name is Cash. I approve your username✌🏻
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Collector kash private msg quote post Address this user
Won an auction for a low-grade World's Finest 44 yesterday (2.0-2.5). It'll make a nice placeholder until I can find a better copy
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
I have a few. They are getting harder to find and track down in a decent grade, too.






Which version do you have?
Is any text blacked out in the indicia?
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelekrupp


This is a must own book for EC collectors and people interested in SOTI era comics. Among other historically relevant and fascinating bits of information, this includes the complete transcripts of Bill Gaines’ testimony before the senate subcommittee in 1954. It’s definitely a window into how things were at the height of the anti comic book hysteria.


I was flattered when the author of the book complimented one of my web pages. I've never communicated with him, I just saw a post he made online.
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
I have a few. They are getting harder to find and track down in a decent grade, too.






Which version do you have?
Is any text blacked out in the indicia?


It's not the one you're thinking of. Nope. I know.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
I have a few. They are getting harder to find and track down in a decent grade, too.






Which version do you have?
Is any text blacked out in the indicia?


It's not the one you're thinking of. Nope. I know.


You can see the difference at the bottom of page 1 and the top of page 2 on this pdf checklist.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JSoVioJUn2LxmrIPZzbHa6zuD_8ltKDo/view
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user



It's just whited out.
Post 52 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
More common, but still a great book.
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
I'm not following ... what was blacked out / whited out? What were they trying to fix or change?
Post 54 IP   flag post
Collector michaelekrupp private msg quote post Address this user
Back in those days the post office would charge you for a new first class mailing permit for every new title you started. Publishers would try to avoid this charge by changing the title but continuing the numbering from s previous title. Sometimes the post office would catch them and make them pay the fine for a new title. EC first considered picking up the numbering from a previous title, starting at issue 15, then decided to forego this tactic and start crime suspenstories at issue one. The original indicia started at number 15 and was then changed to start the title from issue 1, so they changed the indicia to reflect that.
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