Fourth World discussion, and collection highlights7194
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When I was about 7 years old my mother took a busload of girl scouts to New York on a learning trip. Somewhere along the way in a subway vendors stand she bought me a few comic books....to keep me busy. The two books were Kamandi #1 and New gods #7. Years later in the mid eighties I wandered into a comic book store to begin accumulating and getting two sets of Transformers comic books, one for myself and one for my younger brother. It was something we could share and bond over so I went to the trouble to keep him up to date on all the books as they came out related to transformers. I had never been in a comic book store before and the busy shelves filled with models, posters, magazines and and walls filled with mylar covered comics drew me in. At some point I decided to see if I could find the comic books I remembered so well from my trip ....but although the images were burned deep into memory, I had no idea the who or what. Over the coming few months the owner helped me as we first figured out the Kamandi book and then began searching Micronauts, Eternals, etc until finally he showed me a copy of New Gods 7. BINGO ....I had loved that cover and the artwork inside as a kid...neither book was exactly pricey back then so I bought them. If you do not see the birth of a collector coming, I dd not either...but I decided to get the rest of the issues of the New Gods...but..that means you have to buy Mister Miracle too right? And what about Forever people....nevermind the Jimmy Olsen issues or the crossovers into Lois Lane...andI was off and running. Eventually that spark led me to hunt down every New gods, or Character appearance that I could find....and then I decided in my young collecting fog I might as well chase down everything done by Jack Kiry as well right? I think that was the point I began to realize the hobby was far bigger than I was and I could likely resign myself I would never own some of his works. I had been bitten by the bug however and began buying every silver age key I could find as well. During the enormous market purge of the early to mid nineties I became disenchanted with all the gimmicks, cover variants, and the tactics employed by the publishers to flood the market so far beyond saturation the soon to occur implosion was all but inescapable. I set my comics aside in a huge mountain of boxes in the back room and allowed myself to all but forget them for about 20 years. Around 2012 a friend and I went to a con and I got rebitten by the bug and found my way back to a hobby landscape almost impossible to recognize. I found my New gods had thrived in my time away starring in several series and even Darkseid himself had become the big bad in the DC universe. I made the effort to bring my New Gods collection back up to date, and nowdays I read little for new books, but I hoard silver age . I thought I might open a thread for anyone that liked talking about or loves the fourth world trilogy as much as I do. One of my favorite topics relating to the fourth world is......how much do you feel Jack Kirby served to inspire Lucas to create Star Wars and its plotlines? In Star wars we are given the most unexpected and jolting moment in motion picture history with..."I am your father Luke" a plot device almost identically seemingly lifted from issue 7 of the New Gods when we learn that Highfather and Darkseid have exchanged sons and Orion is Darkseid's son, while Mister Miracle AKA Scott Free is highfather's . The similarities are too numerous to count..but consider Darth vader as he says..."Come to the Darkseid Luke".......the Death Star resembles Apokolips, Highfather makes a great image of Obi Wan....Stormtroopers or Parademons, the Source VS the force....even comparing some of the characters from Forever people you can see paralells to Hans Solo, Chewy, Beautiful Dreamer and even the Hans Solo-like cowboy of the group. We know the fourth world arrived on the scene far in advance of Star Wars, and that Lucas was working part time in his father's comic book store during the time he supposedly created Star Wars. I know it rattles many Star Wars fans to imply that the story was not cut entirely new from fresh cloth, but yet all those similarities right? How does everyone feel about the new movie, and its recently announced director? I had read her last project lost something like 80 million for the company she was working for so I have my fingers crossed for this movie. What would you like to see from this movie or which characters? Finally share those appearances and slabs...I love this story and its characters and will share more of mine as I get a chance to add some pictures Thanks for your time and for following this long winded post...and until the Next set of gods arise from the ashes of the old ones!!!   |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I used to have a blog years ago. I was referenced on the kirbymuseum site on this exact topic. https://dailycomicsfix.blogspot.com/2010/12/kirby-lucas-and-campbell.html?m=1 |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Some interesting reading there, although the link for the Salon article for me at least did not work. I guess I belong to the camp that would argue perhaps Lucas did invent some of his motifs and ideals, but it is also well understood how many visuals, ideas, and even themes he borrowed from other influences, from Dinotopia to Doctor Doom. I think he did steal some of it from Kirby, perhaps less than I believe, but more than he admits. Coincidences like the "source and the "force" are just a bit much to swallow perhaps. Lucas has often credited dozens of sources for the ideas he used, but has never owned to using the New Gods...they have mined from the same mythological source , but the fact it rymthes with force is questionable ! | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Theres is no question in my mind Lucas borrowed heavily from Kirby's Fourth World. Like you say, there are simply too many similarities....doesn't Mark Moonrider sound alot like Luke Skywalker?...and on and on and on.. | ||
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A lot of books and movies follow what is known as the "Hero's Journey". Joseph Campbell wrote a really good book about it. This format even goes back into Mythology with writing's like Gilgamesh. Star Wars, the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and many more follow this pattern. It is worth checking out. | ||
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Everything written today has been influenced by what has already been written. Obviously things are switched up and plot twists are added, but like @BrianGreensnips said, there is a basic format - good vs evil. Like that old TV show used to say, “only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.” | ||
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| King Athur, Excalibur and the Knights of the Round Table follows this format too. This is one of my favorite tales of all time. | ||
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I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
Which is your favorite cover?   |
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC That picture is amazing...and speaks a thousand words for one of the most intricate well laid out and complex storylines ever done.......and that is only the Kirby material.Imagine the image if it contained the Lois Lane Issues or the continuations of the orginal titles ...ie Return of the New Gods, and the Mister Miracles after Kirby. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips A ton of truth there, but most stories that follow the format do not steal the images, the "looks" of various characters, or names ....like Source and Force.....by example, Apokolips vs Deathstar Highfather vs Obi Wan....Vader vs Darkseid.....the entire "I am your father Luke" plot twist.....yes, Lucas has spent years spewing about the "Heroe's Journey" but he fails to explain why his devices, characters and plot are so precisely fourth world in origin. That is the part that concerns me ...it is not so much that they all follow a fairly standard plot,as much as that the visuals themselves and imagery and terms and names even look quite "similar" |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by X51 I must be forgetting something...did Omac enter into the fourth world storyline? I might have missed that one. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo Mine is hands down New Gods 7....I bought every copy I found for sale for years. When the book heated up with the Steppenwolf link to the recent movie I gifted a few to friends.....amazed how high that book has flown .....but such an amazing color palette used and a great battle scene. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo The Forever people issues with superman's face redrawn by another artist always amuse me...it is really noticeable....always loved that cover with Chewbacca, and Hans solo riding in the three wheeler with Luke Skywalker....err I meant um Mark Moonrider....yeah that's it. |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Jack Kirby is the most important figure in comics ever. In the pantheon of comics creators/artists/writers, Jack Kirby sits at the top. His prolific work is unparalleled in quality, originality, quantity and imagination. He is THE King of comics. | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Preach it brother....so much truth there |
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Odins_Raven private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This post is inspiring me to put all of my Fourth World books together for one epic shot. I recent started reading the omnibus and had Mike Royer sign it. Currently waiting on this Mister Miracle 1 to come back from being graded with Kirby, Royer and also Steranko's signatures (Jim was the inspiration for the character according to Jack Kirby).  [/img]  |
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town I'll post my Fourth World collection tonight.  |
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC very impressive. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BrianGreensnips Thank you!! gotta love Kirby!! | ||
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That is why I named my kitten Kirby. Lol | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town I plead ignorance. I'm not a DC fan. I thought all Kirby stuff released by DC in that time period was considered 4th World. Maybe it has another meaning to fans of the material. |
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by X51 Jack Kirbys Fourth World story took place in four, simulataneously released, comic books. They are, New Gods, Supermans Pal Jimmy Olsen, Forever People and Mister Miracle. Each book was a different perspective of the conflict between New Genesis and Apokolips. While at DC, Jack Kirby also created OMAC, Kamandi, The Demon and others that are not part of his Fourth World story. If anyone else wants to contribute or correct what I wrote, that would be welcomed. |
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
anyone interested in the Jack Kirby era of comics, read this book. |
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC That makes sense, but for decades I've been under the belief that 4th world was a more generic term referring to the umbrella of new characters he created at DC. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| the fourth world or fourth world trilogy was exactly as GAC described it...a trilogy composed of Mister Miracle, Forever People, and the New Gods, with some additional material appearing in Jimmy Olsen as well as Lois Lane....it is not a generic term for all things Kirby at DC. Kamandi, Demon, Sandman and a few others are not part of the fourth world trilogy...but all still done by the master himself. | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Deleted most of the picture links to save everyone having to scroll through that epic gallery again.....but man what a nice set of New Gods materials. Envious to the core, you should be very proud Sir |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I keep watching this series of books for more emerging keys....we have the first Darkeid cameo a few times, first full Darkseid, 2nd full Darkseid, First Mister Miracle....and one that has been soaring high recently....first Big Barda....what keys do you see emerging from which issues next? I was surprised the movie carried the first Steppenwolf, who was nothing like the cinematic version to such high levels. Separate thought...I always felt Forager would have made a good lead character/storyline |
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