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Would comic bend be found on a 9.4 graded CBCS comic?7040

Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Hello everyone. I'm hoping to get feedback on my first CBCS graded comic, and one of my first graded comics in general honestly. I have maybe 8 CGC slabbed comics too, all of which lay completely flat.

I got this one on ebay, and it has a noticeable waviness/bend to the lower half of the comic. I tried to get photos, but the bend is too subtle to pick up in them, and if you were here holding it, I could point it out easily. But, I was only able to very slightly pick anything up in the below photos. Honestly, if I just saw these photos I'd probably wonder what the deal is and think I'm crazy, so I even hesitate to use them. You have to see it in person to see the subtle bend.

My main question really is, are high grade comics such as this 9.4 allowed to have any bend or waviness to them, or should they be flat as a board only? I have to decide to keep this or not, and I want to be fair as to what does and doesn't really detract from a comic's value over this.

If you look at the edge on these photos, you can just barely make out a bit of a bend between the green lines that causes a hump in the cover that extends most of the way towards the spine. I know it's hard to see, but it really does stand out in person. The last photo shows some typical newton rings, where the rings aren't all that unusual, it's the peak of the hump/bend that is causing the comic to press up against the holder and creating those rings. This is the only spot of rings on the whole comic.








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Collector Aliens private msg quote post Address this user
I don't like how that looks, in my opinion a 9.4 should not have waviness nor bends, but a pressing can easily fix a problem like that though
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector Midnightowl private msg quote post Address this user
When was this graded? What do the grading notes say?
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Grading notes point out a "small crease left back cover breaks color". Nothing about waviness, and I don't see anything about when it was graded. Where can I locate that?

Here's a photo that I think may help. Notice how the edge of the box on the ad on the back sags where my green line is straight. That sag is being caused by the bend.


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Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
I dont know much about ways to flatten book..but from what Ive read, could that waviness have come from a press just before being passed through for grading on a fast pass? Meaning, was it pressed too hot/too much moisture or was it not pressed long enough and some of the flaws returned?
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Inner well is wrong size. Send it to CBCS with note about waviness in the book and they will take care of you.

Best to send an email first, but I’ve seen this a few times and responses here from employees instructing same
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Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the info guys! I don't know how long it's been in the holder. If it's been in there a while, and they replace the well, will it still flatten back out? And, if it's been a few years, would they still do it? I'm not the original owner, just got it on ebay.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Inner well is wrong size. Send it to CBCS with note about waviness in the book and they will take care of you.

Best to send an email first, but I’ve seen this a few times and responses here from employees instructing same


ah...better answer than mine...you da man!
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
I think I'll just return it and find another, rather than wait for CBCS to respond. I'm not sure it would be very easy to work with them to reslab it being I'm not the original owner that had them do it, I don't know how long it's been in this slab, and I'm sure I'd have to pay shipping etc. It's a shame, because it's a lovely comic otherwise and I really hate having to return things.

Thanks to all who read and responded! I really appreciate it.
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Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
I think I'll just return it and find another, rather than wait for CBCS to respond. I'm not sure it would be very easy to work with them to reslab it being I'm not the original owner that had them do it, I don't know how long it's been in this slab, and I'm sure I'd have to pay shipping etc. It's a shame, because it's a lovely comic otherwise and I really hate having to return things.

Thanks to all who read and responded! I really appreciate it.



The book is a 9.4, which does allow for minor flaws.


The seller is in NO way at fault here and it is wrong to return the book because of the Very minimal flaw.

It is not a 9.6 or a 9.8. I believe you have unrealistic expectations with the 9.4 grade.

If you were to return a graded book like that to me for the reason's you are nit picking about, I would most definitely add you to my "Blocked Bidder" list.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Hello everyone. I'm hoping to get feedback on my first CBCS graded comic, and one of my first graded comics in general honestly.

I got this one on ebay, I tried to get photos, but the bend is too subtle to pick up in them

you can just barely make out a bit of a bend I know it's hard to see,



Your being way to picky, the book is already third party graded.
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
@Avenger Will you post a picture of the label? That might give some indication about how long ago it was graded.

Original label, rivet label, current label, current label with heat-seal.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector mattness private msg quote post Address this user
I have also experienced this. I submitted three books in July of 2016. All three books were pressed by CFP comics, had signature verification and the new label without the extended heat seal. When the books came back, two of the three books had waves in them. I emailed customer service with my concern along with pictures. Zak contacted me and asked if I could send the books in so they can take a better look at them. A few weeks later I got my books back and they no longer had have any waves in them. I don't know if it was from the inner well or from CFP's pressing but CBCS seemed to have fixed the issue. I did have to pay to ship the books to them but CBCS paid the shipping back to me. When everything was said and done it was in Feb 2017. I don't know if it matters but the two books that had waves in them were the exact same issues, two copies of Tales From The Crypt #13 (2009)
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Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
I think I'll just return it and find another, rather than wait for CBCS to respond. I'm not sure it would be very easy to work with them to reslab it being I'm not the original owner that had them do it, I don't know how long it's been in this slab, and I'm sure I'd have to pay shipping etc. It's a shame, because it's a lovely comic otherwise and I really hate having to return things.

Thanks to all who read and responded! I really appreciate it.



The book is a 9.4, which does allow for minor flaws.


The seller is in NO way at fault here and it is wrong to return the book because of the Very minimal flaw.

It is not a 9.6 or a 9.8. I believe you have unrealistic expectations with the 9.4 grade.

If you were to return a graded book like that to me for the reason's you are nit picking about, I would most definitely add you to my "Blocked Bidder" list.


I don't think you understand, I cannot photograph the warped wavy look of the lower half of the cover. It's not just the slight bump of a wave you see on the very edge between the green lines in my photos (that's just the starting edge), there is a bend that spans the majority of the width of the book, and some on the upper half that I can't catch. The white cover simply won't show it in photographs. If all it was was a slight little bend on the edge of the book only visible when microscopically inspecting the edge, I would have never noticed or cared. But as it is, the cover has visible bending in person when looking at it straight on. I just can't get it to show in photographs.

I debated posting photos at all because I knew it would be difficult to convey this and that they would possibly do more to confuse the matter than help. But I also knew everyone would be asking for them, so I got what I could. That said, I appreciate your comments and thoughts anyway. I know you're only able to comment on what you can see, and can't read my mind to see what I'm seeing. And, maybe you'd say the same thing if you were holding it. I have not personally found any 9.4's that exhibited these bends, I don't own any either, but you surely have seen more than me. I don't know. But I do know the photos don't completely convey what I'm able to see holding it.

After looking up the grader notes, I had a hard time finding the spot they point out for why it got the grade it got. They seem a lot pickier than I am, as that spot strikes me as very minor. I'd be surprised if they can find that and not notice the bending I can see. But, I don't know. You guys know this stuff a lot better than I do. And that's why I don't want to end up keeping something that can't get the grade it shows if I had it graded again, because I don't know the weight the grades assign to all these different imperfections nor if these were present at the time it was graded or not. Or, if I ended up selling it and had someone wanting to return it for the same concerns I have today.

If I had seen this in a comic shop, I would have put it back down and moved on. So my first instinct is to return it. If the seller accepts returns and I get it back to them in the same condition it left them in (I have to pay return shipping), I don't see why this is unreasonable.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despain
@Avenger Will you post a picture of the label? That might give some indication about how long ago it was graded.

Original label, rivet label, current label, current label with heat-seal.



Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
@Avenger Looks like it has the heat seal all the way through the logo, so it appears to have been graded within last 12 months, I would guess.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
I think I'll just return it and find another, rather than wait for CBCS to respond. I'm not sure it would be very easy to work with them to reslab it being I'm not the original owner that had them do it, I don't know how long it's been in this slab, and I'm sure I'd have to pay shipping etc. It's a shame, because it's a lovely comic otherwise and I really hate having to return things.

Thanks to all who read and responded! I really appreciate it.



The book is a 9.4, which does allow for minor flaws.


The seller is in NO way at fault here and it is wrong to return the book because of the Very minimal flaw.

It is not a 9.6 or a 9.8. I believe you have unrealistic expectations with the 9.4 grade.

If you were to return a graded book like that to me for the reason's you are nit picking about, I would most definitely add you to my "Blocked Bidder" list.


I don't think you understand, I cannot photograph the warped wavy look of the lower half of the cover. It's not just the slight bump of a wave you see on the very edge between the green lines in my photos (that's just the starting edge), there is a bend that spans the majority of the width of the book, and some on the upper half that I can't catch. The white cover simply won't show it in photographs. If all it was was a slight little bend on the edge of the book only visible when microscopically inspecting the edge, I would have never noticed or cared. But as it is, the cover has visible bending in person when looking at it straight on. I just can't get it to show in photographs.

I debated posting photos at all because I knew it would be difficult to convey this and that they would possibly do more to confuse the matter than help. But I also knew everyone would be asking for them, so I got what I could. That said, I appreciate your comments and thoughts anyway. I know you're only able to comment on what you can see, and can't read my mind to see what I'm seeing. And, maybe you'd say the same thing if you were holding it. I have not personally found any 9.4's that exhibited these bends, I don't own any either, but you surely have seen more than me. I don't know. But I do know the photos don't completely convey what I'm able to see holding it.

After looking up the grader notes, I had a hard time finding the spot they point out for why it got the grade it got. They seem a lot pickier than I am, as that spot strikes me as very minor. I'd be surprised if they can find that and not notice the bending I can see. But, I don't know. You guys know this stuff a lot better than I do. And that's why I don't want to end up keeping something that can't get the grade it shows if I had it graded again, because I don't know the weight the grades assign to all these different imperfections nor if these were present at the time it was graded or not. Or, if I ended up selling it and had someone wanting to return it for the same concerns I have today.

If I had seen this in a comic shop, I would have put it back down and moved on. So my first instinct is to return it. If the seller accepts returns and I get it back to them in the same condition it left them in (I have to pay return shipping), I don't see why this is unreasonable.



All fine and dandy, but your issue is with the grader(CBCS), NOT the seller.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
All fine and dandy, but your issue is with the grader(CBCS), NOT the seller.


I don't guess I understand why my issue is with the grader since I'm not the one who had it graded. I bought the book already graded, as I wanted a slabbed copy of the comic. I didn't buy the book and have it graded after the fact.

Are you saying if I buy a graded & slabbed book on ebay and upon delivery suspect issues with the way CBCS holstered it, where it may be causing bends in the book, it's now my responsibility to take care of contacting them and having CBCS inspect it and redo it?
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
All fine and dandy, but your issue is with the grader(CBCS), NOT the seller.


I don't guess I understand why my issue is with the grader since I'm not the one who had it graded. I bought the book already graded, as I wanted a slabbed copy of the comic. I didn't buy the book and have it graded after the fact.

Are you saying if I buy a graded & slabbed book on ebay and upon delivery suspect issues with the way CBCS holstered it, where it may be causing bends in the book, it's now my responsibility to take care of contacting them and having CBCS inspect it and redo it?


YES That is exactly what I am saying.
Post 19 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
So pay a reholder fee, pay to have cbcs press it again, pay to have it graded again.

It's a 9.4, not a 9.8 for a reason. I'm just as confused as the rest of us in this thread.
Post 20 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
All fine and dandy, but your issue is with the grader(CBCS), NOT the seller.


I don't guess I understand why my issue is with the grader since I'm not the one who had it graded. I bought the book already graded, as I wanted a slabbed copy of the comic. I didn't buy the book and have it graded after the fact.

Are you saying if I buy a graded & slabbed book on ebay and upon delivery suspect issues with the way CBCS holstered it, where it may be causing bends in the book, it's now my responsibility to take care of contacting them and having CBCS inspect it and redo it?


YES That is exactly what I am saying.


Bingo.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector Zevgoli private msg quote post Address this user
This is why I don’t accept returns of graded books.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
All fine and dandy, but your issue is with the grader(CBCS), NOT the seller.


I don't guess I understand why my issue is with the grader since I'm not the one who had it graded. I bought the book already graded, as I wanted a slabbed copy of the comic. I didn't buy the book and have it graded after the fact.

Are you saying if I buy a graded & slabbed book on ebay and upon delivery suspect issues with the way CBCS holstered it, where it may be causing bends in the book, it's now my responsibility to take care of contacting them and having CBCS inspect it and redo it?


I'm in agreement with the rest as well. The only way you'd go back to the seller of a graded book is if you have evidence of tampering...otherwise it's a graded 9.4 book....its what you bought and its what you got. Seller has no culpability here.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
All right guys, I'm listening. Like I said, I'm pretty new to buying graded comics, and we all know at the higher grades every single little thing counts. For someone new to that, it can be a bit intimidating when trying to educate yourself and make good buying decisions. For me, it's knowing the comic is in fact a 9.4. Every other graded comic I've bought is CGC graded, which means they've got plenty of newton rings. You should see the oil slick that is my Watchmen #1. So, it's not like a bit of waviness in the book bothers me compared to a bunch of oily looking spots. But, every one of my CGC comics also lays flat as a board. I just want to know I got what I paid for, and the bends are not due to poor storage, failed pressing, exposure to moisture, or some other mistreatment by previous owners after it was graded.

So, back to my original post and my original question, if you'll all grant me the benefit of the doubt that that the book does in fact not lay flat in the slab but exhibits some bending throughout, how flat does "book lays flat" mean when these companies grade these? Is it mostly flat, or flat as a board? I have no doubt CBCS meant 9.4 when they originally graded it. What I don't know is if what I'm seeing is within proper grading specs or indicative of mistreatment or exposure to elements by previous owners that has negatively affected the condition of the book.

I feel like everyone is just assuming I disagree with CBCS's grade, I'm delusional to be claiming to see anything at all, and now don't want the book, when in fact I just want to know everything is kosher with what I've got. I don't like returns either, nor paying return shipping which will probably be about 20% of what I paid for this book to begin with. So, this isn't my favorite choice either.
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Collector Zevgoli private msg quote post Address this user
This thread is getting tiresome
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector Avenger private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevgoli
This thread is getting tiresome


Alright. Thanks everyone who actually provided info for your time, and yes certainly to BigRedOne1944. I appreciate it.

Zevgoli, you can return to using this thread to simply express your exasperation at those who did not start collecting graded comics as experts like you, for their irritating newb questions and irksome requests for help. I doubt it's very tiresome though, as you seem to quite enjoy that little chip on your shoulder.
Post 26 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
As both a seller and a buyer on Ebay. I just have to express my thoughts on this further. Although it has already been explained beautifully by others.

You are not happy with what you got. I get that.

But Ebay is not a guarantee of happiness. It is a medium that connects those looking for things, with those who have those things.

This seller had what you wanted. A 9.4 professionally graded by CBCS ASM #298. That is what the seller sent you.

This can in no way, be the responsibility of the seller. And if it is the responsibility of CBCS. Then that is between you and them. NOT the seller.

If it was me in your shoes. I would just put the book in a drawer or box, and look around for another that is more to your liking. If it is good to have one, it has to be even better to have two.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
I bought a book that was slabbed poorly by CBCS. Cracked it pressed it, and will resubmit. Part of the game
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
All right guys, I'm listening. Like I said, I'm pretty new to buying graded comics, and we all know at the higher grades every single little thing counts. For someone new to that, it can be a bit intimidating when trying to educate yourself and make good buying decisions. For me, it's knowing the comic is in fact a 9.4. Every other graded comic I've bought is CGC graded, which means they've got plenty of newton rings. You should see the oil slick that is my Watchmen #1. So, it's not like a bit of waviness in the book bothers me compared to a bunch of oily looking spots. But, every one of my CGC comics also lays flat as a board. I just want to know I got what I paid for, and the bends are not due to poor storage, failed pressing, exposure to moisture, or some other mistreatment by previous owners after it was graded.

So, back to my original post and my original question, if you'll all grant me the benefit of the doubt that that the book does in fact not lay flat in the slab but exhibits some bending throughout, how flat does "book lays flat" mean when these companies grade these? Is it mostly flat, or flat as a board? I have no doubt CBCS meant 9.4 when they originally graded it. What I don't know is if what I'm seeing is within proper grading specs or indicative of mistreatment or exposure to elements by previous owners that has negatively affected the condition of the book.

I feel like everyone is just assuming I disagree with CBCS's grade, I'm delusional to be claiming to see anything at all, and now don't want the book, when in fact I just want to know everything is kosher with what I've got. I don't like returns either, nor paying return shipping which will probably be about 20% of what I paid for this book to begin with. So, this isn't my favorite choice either.



Avenger

I don't find the thread "tiresome" in the least.

If your new to (TPG) Third Party Grading, then asking questions and opinions is the only way to better understand all the dynamics that are involved.

Your assuming that the "waviness" occurred due to mishandling or such, but let's not overlook the fact that many comic books with this type of flaw can often occur during the printing and distribution process.

We comic book geeks more often than not suffer from serve OCD and are always looking for perfection. I believe the book does lay flat along the spine despite the slight "wave". The small color breaking crease on the back obviously was the most notable flaw bringing the book into the 9.4 range.

Somebody commented that the inner mylar shell might be the wrong size(too small), which could be possible, in which case CBCS would likely address and fix at no cost to you(I believe)

The bottom line is that comic book grading is so very subjective regardless who is grading it, and that includes "Professional Graders" as well.


I also strongly suggest not falling for the hyperbole of the "crack/press", which IMHO is simply wasting money on services that cost more than the book is worth.

Its a beautiful book with a nice centered clean cover. I would display it proudly!

Regards
John
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Collector Zevgoli private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevgoli
This thread is getting tiresome


Alright. Thanks everyone who actually provided info for your time, and yes certainly to BigRedOne1944. I appreciate it.

Zevgoli, you can return to using this thread to simply express your exasperation at those who did not start collecting graded comics as experts like you, for their irritating newb questions and irksome requests for help. I doubt it's very tiresome though, as you seem to quite enjoy that little chip on your shoulder.


Thread is still tiresome regardless.
Post 30 IP   flag post
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