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Grading: CGC vs PGX vs CBCS (YouTube video)670

COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Saw this on YouTube last night. It's an interesting video compairing the grading of all three companies on the same book.

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Collector vaultkeeper private msg quote post Address this user
Great information!! From the pix of the book, I thought it would have been higher than a 5.5 from CGC.
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
The book looks nicer than even 8.0 from what I can see in the video. If it's restored then why is it not grading higher?
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COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
That was a interesting video. And would be a fun experiment.
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Collector Ebandy private msg quote post Address this user
I just want the book lol
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
I have cross graded a few books myself. This is an very small sampling as I've only had about 10 books cross graded overall, but most of the time the books have come back with the same grade but for these 2 exceptions: A PGX Avengers #6 graded at 9.0 came back 9.4 from CGC. Here's the real puzzler to me though, a CBCS Spider-Man #70 graded 8.0 which I thought was waaaaay under graded in the first place, I then sent to CGC and they give it a 9.4 which seemed to be more in line with the actual condition of the book. I only picked this book to send to CGC because I really felt CBCS badly missed the mark on its grade so I kind of felt vindicated it got a better grade from CCG. I think it just goes to show how subjective grading can be in some instances and as much as we want it be, it will never be an exact science.
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Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
I think it just goes to show how subjective grading can be in some instances and as much as we want it be, it will never be an exact science.


Anyone that thinks it is anything but subjective is nuts.
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COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
I think it just goes to show how subjective grading can be in some instances and as much as we want it be, it will never be an exact science.


Anyone that thinks it is anything but subjective is nuts.
I agree there are guidelines that the companies follow but you are paying for their expert opinion on what they see the book as. I am going to be thinning out almost all of my CGC books as I regrade them with CBCS but i can look in the case and see the book and there is no way I'm going to send some books to CBCS that are in CGC cases. I can see a gift grade when I see one.
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Collector Kanaloa private msg quote post Address this user
It looks very crooked in the case. Is it just camera angle?
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Moderator The_Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
@Kanaloa The book is miscut, which is very common among GA comics
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Collector Rafel private msg quote post Address this user
Great video!! Thank you for sharing that. I was warned about PGX and CGC. CGC is over priced and pretty liberal while CBCS is more conservative (which I like). I believe CBCS give a more true evaluation.
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Collector Nico private msg quote post Address this user
It defently looks Nice.
After the few first pix i was at 7, leaning on a 7,5.
Then more pix and I thought "restored", nicely done.
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You think I'm joking, I'm not. earthshaker01 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel
Great video!! Thank you for sharing that. I was warned about PGX and CGC. CGC is over priced and pretty liberal while CBCS is more conservative (which I like). I believe CBCS give a more true evaluation.


@Nico I have been saying this for awhile, that cbcs graded more accurately and I feel more confident with their grades. I have a funny frolics #1 that is highest graded at 9.4. However I can see a couple minor flawed that if graded by cbcs would be more accurate around a 9.0 maybe 9.2.
Hosmer I would never crack and resubmit as it is easy to valuable in 9.4
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Collector Nico private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah, Im on board With cbcs too.

I never liked the cgc "production errors don't count"
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COLLECTOR DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user
Ok, I'm dumbfounded by the point of view of keeping a book inside a slab that you clearly can see was overgraded just to preserve some kind of perceived value. If you have a book slabbed at 9.4 and you were to sell it to someone knowing full well it deserves a 9.0 or 9.2 at best that is intentionally being dishonest to the buyer for your own gain. Just my two cents.
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COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthLego
Ok, I'm dumbfounded by the point of view of keeping a book inside a slab that you clearly can see was overgraded just to preserve some kind of perceived value. If you have a book slabbed at 9.4 and you were to sell it to someone knowing full well it deserves a 9.0 or 9.2 at best that is intentionally being dishonest to the buyer for your own gain. Just my two cents.
First off it would be in My opinion that the book is over graded. I don't get payed for my opinion on graded books. If i look inside a slab and my opinion is I wouldn't have graded that book that grade that's my opinion. There are 3 other people who do get payed for their opinion when the book is professionally graded and slabbed. If I sale a book graded at a 9.0 and say in my opinion the book is at least a 9.4 I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean I'm going to pull in a 9.4 price and visa versa if a book is graded a 9.6 but to me it looks like a 9.2 do I price it for a GPA 9.2 price and leave $100's of dollars on the table
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COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
8.0/8.5 restored all day long. Of course I can't check the interior.
Post 17 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Grading is indeed subjective. But many don't realize that it is not only "on any given day". It is also the mood that graders are in, and the time of day or week (such as Friday afternoon, or the start of a long weekend, that can influence the grade. It is a statistical fact that cops more after get shot in the last two hours of their shift, than earlier in their shift. Because they get tired and less attentive. I believe this carries over to almost any profession.

Facts of life #24.
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Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico
Yeah, Im on board With cbcs too.

I never liked the cgc "production errors don't count"


This is the first I'm hearing of this. Has it been confirmed by CBCS employees?
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
I would like to think production flaws carry less weight if any in a book's grade. Books can have distributor's ink, date stamps, Marvel chipping, mis-cut or mis-aligned pages and so on. I believe to be fair, a book's grade should be in relation to how much its condition has changed from when it was first new and made available for purchase; production flaws or not.
I know in grading baseball/sports cards they take off the grade for production errors which just drive me nuts. The card can be in perfect condition, but if it's mis-cut 60/40 they slam the grade. Of course in some cases, severely mis-cut cards can command a premium.
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Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel
Great video!! Thank you for sharing that. I was warned about PGX and CGC. CGC is over priced and pretty liberal while CBCS is more conservative (which I like). I believe CBCS give a more true evaluation.


What does "CGC is overpriced" mean? Their submission rates aren't much more than CBCS'.
Post 21 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Interesting conversation. Should production flaws count in grading.

Short answer is, they have to be. Otherwise a book could come from the factory with no interior, or missing colors on the cover. That can not be graded the same as a "nice" book. Even though grading is about structure.

I have a book that is just in black and white on the cover, and is supposed to be in full color. I should submit it.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
I know in grading baseball/sports cards they take off the grade for production errors which just drive me nuts. The card can be in perfect condition, but if it's mis-cut 60/40 they slam the grade. Of course in some cases, severely mis-cut cards can command a premium.


That sounds good to me. I think mis-wraps should affect the grade of a comic.
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COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel
Great video!! Thank you for sharing that. I was warned about PGX and CGC. CGC is over priced and pretty liberal while CBCS is more conservative (which I like). I believe CBCS give a more true evaluation.


What does "CGC is overpriced" mean? Their submission rates aren't much more than CBCS'.
I wish CBCS could get the Expanded rate down to CGC value tier they are a couple bucks more
Post 24 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
Interesting conversation. Should production flaws count in grading.

Short answer is, they have to be. Otherwise a book could come from the factory with no interior, or missing colors on the cover. That can not be graded the same as a "nice" book. Even though grading is about structure.

I have a book that is just in black and white on the cover, and is supposed to be in full color. I should submit it.
Production flaws like printers creases , mis-wrapped covers , distributors spray should all be taken into account. I've have passed on books I would normally buy but if the cover was too mis-wrapped or had alot of over spray on it I'll wait for another copy
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Collector Stelbert_Stylton private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWKyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel
Great video!! Thank you for sharing that. I was warned about PGX and CGC. CGC is over priced and pretty liberal while CBCS is more conservative (which I like). I believe CBCS give a more true evaluation.


What does "CGC is overpriced" mean? Their submission rates aren't much more than CBCS'.
I wish CBCS could get the Expanded rate down to CGC value tier they are a couple bucks more


Is CBCS' Expanded tier a minimum of 15 books too?
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COLLECTOR JWKyle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWKyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelbert_Stylton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafel
Great video!! Thank you for sharing that. I was warned about PGX and CGC. CGC is over priced and pretty liberal while CBCS is more conservative (which I like). I believe CBCS give a more true evaluation.


What does "CGC is overpriced" mean? Their submission rates aren't much more than CBCS'.
I wish CBCS could get the Expanded rate down to CGC value tier they are a couple bucks more


Is CBCS' Expanded tier a minimum of 15 books too?
no but I wouldn't have a problem shipping five more books if it saved me a few buck on each one. With CBCS I think 10 books at a time will be my sweet spot with the return shipping rates,although 15 could be a sweet spot also if each book was a couple bucks cheaper
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
I think what's happening is that production flaws, depending on what they are, may not affect a book's grade, but in the market place, affects its desirability, thus impacting any given book's value either to the negative or the positive. Take double, triple etc. covers for instance, this is a production flaw that usually makes a book in any given grade more desirable, thus usually more valuable.
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CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Yes, production defects are counted in the grade of the book.
Some production defects WAY more than others.

Some production defects...not so much.
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CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
As for the grade of the book in the video, I didn't see any pictures of the interior of the book. Many times pieces added and other restore gives the appearance of staining.

I'm not saying this book had it, because I didn't look up the grading notes. I do know that a lot of times, this prevents a restored book from getting a higher grade, although from the outside it appears to be much higher grade.

We do not give restored or conserved books a check mark grade.
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