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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Of course, bidders on HA are more likely to bid higher than eBay users , and not be the sort who likely bids much on eBay very much at all, for that matter.


According to who? Where do you come up with that conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAK
Nevertheless, a 3 minute chance for bidders to re-elected their bids on a CC auction, would logically increase the likelihood of a higher final hammer price.


Except that it doesn't, for the reasons I laid out above. It might appear that way on the surface, but when you dig a little, it's not the case.
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
By anti-sniping software, I mean CC extends an auction by 3 minutes if a bid is placed in the last few minutes of an auction.

That is a definitive advantage for consignors.


I think you mean "definite." And I'll counter by asking you this: have you ever participated in a live auction? I have, several times. I've seen stuff sell for nothing in that format, because bidders know they have a reasonable amount of time to "up their bid" if they've been outbid, so they bid the LEAST they can possibly bid to be the high bidder. All that matters is being the high bidder at the fall of the gavel. It leads to bidders, over and over again, to nickel and dime the bidding, not bidding the MOST they're willing to pay.

Yes, it's not quite the same as "proxy" bidding, but the principle is still the same: people will nickel and dime, bidding the LEAST it takes to be the high bidder, because they know they have plenty of time to up their bid.

When there's a precise end that every bidder knows about before the end of the auction, there's an incentive to bid the MOST they're willing to pay, so they will NOT be sniped.

So, I don't think that "auto-extending" is the definite advantage for consignors that you believe it is.

If there are enough bidders, which isn't usually the case with eBay OR Comicconnect, then sniping has no detrimental effect on the prices realized. So, the real issue, if you're not asking a BIN price, is to send the RIGHT material to the RIGHT venue. You don't send New Mutants #25 CGC 9.8 to Heritage, and you don't auction Mystery Man Comics #17 on eBay.


You are correct, on all counts.

I failed to thoroughly articulate my views earlier but I was/am in agreement with what you've said here.
Post 77 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids


You are correct, on all counts.

I failed to thoroughly articulate my views earlier but I was/am in agreement with what you've said here.


You're slipping in your old age, CAK, you folded way too easily...you up for a game of Hold 'em...?
Post 78 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown


Post 79 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
I'll be happy to take your money in Hold 'em, too, if you'd like.
Post 80 IP   flag post


COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Except that it doesn't, for the reasons I laid out above. It might appear that way on the surface, but when you dig a little, it's not the case.


Interesting theory. Do you have any actual data to back it up?


There have been several eBay auctions in which I was sniped, and had there been an auto extension I would certainly have bid more.
Post 81 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Interesting theory. Do you have any actual data to back it up?


www.gpanalysis.com, which shows the prices achieved for nearly every slab listed on eBay, Heritage, Mycomicshop, and elsewhere, which also shows rolling averages in 90 day, 12 month, and the previous two years formats.

I highly recommend it.

Sniping is as old as eBay, and has been much discussed and debated. Usually, the people who have a problem with it are the people who complain because they wanted something for much less than they were willing to pay, and someone was willing to pay more, and bid to prove it.

Sniping is executed on eBay every day, all day long, and yet, over time, you're not going to see a substantial difference in prices paid over both the BIN format and the "auto-extend" format.

But, if you'd like, I'd be happy to run a scientific study if you're willing to underwrite the research. I figure $100,000 would be enough to cover it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
There have been several eBay auctions in which I was sniped, and had there been an auto extension I would certainly have bid more.


I have no doubt of that whatsoever, and that's because you didn't bid the most you were willing to pay.

If you bid the most you're willing to pay, whether that's in the first seconds of the listing, the last seconds, or anywhere in between, you'll never walk away from a sale disappointed. Sniping DOES NOT WORK against those who do the same. It only works on the foolish people who don't bid the most they're willing to pay, when they have the chance to do so.
Post 82 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
It only works on the foolish people who don't bid the most they're willing to pay, when they have the chance to do so.


If everyone was willing to just bid their max amount, they would just use the BIN on many listings, and alternatively you wouldnt see multiple bids by the same person in any auction. The majority of folks are not doing it your way.

Calling those that dont agree with your line of thinking “foolish”... I’m not surprised 🤷🏼‍♂️

Still waiting for actual data to support what you are claiming to be true..
💀
Post 83 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
It only works on the foolish people who don't bid the most they're willing to pay, when they have the chance to do so.


If everyone was willing to just bid their max amount, they would just use the BIN on many listings, and alternatively you wouldnt see multiple bids by the same person in any auction. The majority of folks are not doing it your way.


None of that is true. Do you know why...?

Because with auctions, there's always the chance that you'll win the item for less than the most you're willing to pay. That's why people participate in them.

It's also not true because the vast majority of BINs are priced higher than what everyone is willing to pay, which is why they sit there. BINs that are priced at what people are willing to pay don't last longer than it takes for that person to find it. BINs that are priced at what other people have already been willing to pay (i.e., the definition of "fair market value" ) also don't last very long.

Just because I bid $200 for an item doesn't mean I'll end up PAYING $200 for an item...and that doesn't mean I'll be interested in that item when it's priced at $300.

As well, you see multiple bids by others for a variety of reasons, entirely unrelated to sniping. For example, and this is something I do all the time, someone could be flushing out someone else's high bid, which is a perfectly legitimate auction technique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Calling those that dont agree with your line of thinking “foolish”... I’m not surprised 🤷🏼‍♂️


Pay attention, and stop being so easily offended.

Read what I just wrote in post #69:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DB
When I stopped trying to win at some absurdly low price, and bid the most I was willing to pay...about 20 years ago...I stopped getting frustrated and angry when people outbid me. After all...I wasn't willing to pay more.


Do you see...? That's an acknowledgement that I, too, engaged in foolish behavior...until I learned better, and stopped doing it.

And it is foolish to get angry and upset at someone else for winning an auction, when YOU (the general "you" ) didn't bid what you were WILLING to pay, when you had the chance to do so. It's blaming someone else for YOUR poor decision, clearly manifest by the fact that you didn't bid what you were willing to pay, when you had the chance to do so. That's on YOU, not the person who outbid you.

If you bid the most you're willing to pay, you will never walk away from an auction frustrated because you would have "paid more." It's mentally healthy to say "welp...guess someone wanted it more than I did! On to the next opportunity."

Don't encourage people to engage in foolish behavior by dismissing sound advice. It's regressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb
Still waiting for actual data to support what you are claiming to be true..
💀


Same answer as before:

www.gpanalysis.com, which shows the prices achieved for nearly every slab listed on eBay, Heritage, Mycomicshop, and elsewhere, which also shows rolling averages in 90 day, 12 month, and the previous two years formats.

I highly recommend it.
Post 84 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
In fact, I was such an idiot, I got so frustrated that I would occasionally send e-mails (there was no eBay message system in the late 90s, and everyone's information was available for everyone else to see) to people who outbid me, bitching at them for sniping me.

Their response?

"Bid higher, idiot."

And they were 100% right.

I owe those people an apology, and I hope those people can forgive me for being a 20-something hotheaded moron.
Post 85 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown you were wrong?! Not possible
Post 86 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
In fact, I was such an idiot, I got so frustrated that I would occasionally send e-mails (there was no eBay message system in the late 90s, and everyone's information was available for everyone else to see) to people who outbid me, bitching at them for sniping me.

Their response?

"Bid higher, idiot."

And they were 100% right.

I owe those people an apology, and I hope those people can forgive me for being a 20-something hotheaded moron.


Seems like there are many “idiots” on ebay then .

Knd of goes to show how an online auction with extended bid times or live auction would result in higher prices 😉
Post 87 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Seems like there are many “idiots” on ebay then .

Knd of goes to show how an auction with extended bid times would result in higher prices


No.

You're again falling back on the same flawed reasoning that "sounds" right, but isn't.

The reason those people won was because they bid THE MOST that they were willing to pay, knowing full well that they wouldn't get another opportunity to bid.

When people know that an auction can be extended indefinitely, they bid THE LEAST that it takes to simply become the high bidder, hoping no one else comes along and outbids them. Then, you get nickel and dime bidding, as people try to convince the other bidder(s) that they've bid "enough."

With sniping on proxy bidding, you MUST bid the most you're willing to pay in the last seconds, because you're not going to get another chance to bid again.

Here's a perfect example, if you can get to it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-DC-COMICS-LOIS-LANE-1-POOR-LOW-GRADE-COMPLETE-UNPRESSED-/173315605254?nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=h27Eu9oQBRIusaPpA0bWMZnhXas%253D&orig_cvip=true

(It's a beat up copy of Lois Lane #1.)

Look at the bidding history:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/173315605254?item=173315605254&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

With FIVE SECONDS TO GO, that listing sat at $78.

Then, in the last four seconds of the listing, FOUR snipes came in, including two of mine. Now, my second high bid, $156.65, was the most I was willing to pay.

Had that listing been an "auto-extend", it's quite possible that that listing would have ended at $100, $105, $110. Why? Because people's behavior changes when they aren't up against a no-going-back deadline.

But, because three different people sniped with SUBSTANTIALLY higher bids (double, actually) than the high bid with five seconds remaining, the book sold for quite a high price, perhaps just about GPA in that grade, with costs factored in.

Now...once I saw I wasn't the high bidder, I threw in a last second punishment bid. The winner had to REALLY want it (and it would be a mistake to get caught up in "well, DB, apparently $156 was NOT the most you were willing to pay after all, huh??" because $156 was the amount I decided I was WILLING to pay...if I had won at my punishment bid, I would have said "meh. More than I was willing to pay, but what the hey, that's the rules." )

In other words, the item sold for more than double the high bid it had with only five seconds remaining. And all because two or more people bid the most they were willing to pay, knowing they wouldn't get another chance to bid in just a few seconds.
Post 88 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DocBrown you were wrong?! Not possible


I know, right?? Almost as unpossible as you being wrong!
Post 89 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DocBrown you were wrong?! Not possible


I know, right?? Almost as unpossible as you being wrong!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown

I owe those people an apology, and I hope those people can forgive me for being a 20-something hotheaded moron.


Will you look back in a few years and feel the same way? That we deserve an apology?
Post 90 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DocBrown you were wrong?! Not possible


I know, right?? Almost as unpossible as you being wrong!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown

I owe those people an apology, and I hope those people can forgive me for being a 20-something hotheaded moron.


Will you look back in a few years and feel the same way? That we desrerve an apology?


Who is "we"? Was there an election I wasn't aware of...? Who do you speak for, besides KingNampa...?

Will you look back in a few years and think you owe me an apology...?
Post 91 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DocBrown you were wrong?! Not possible


I know, right?? Almost as unpossible as you being wrong!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown

I owe those people an apology, and I hope those people can forgive me for being a 20-something hotheaded moron.


Will you look back in a few years and feel the same way? That we desrerve an apology?


Who is "we"? Was there an election I wasn't aware of...? Who do you speak for, besides KingNampa...?

Will you look back in a few years and think you owe me an apology...?


I speak for the forum, they elected me as your handler.


Post 92 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
I speak for the forum, they elected me as your handler.


No, you don't, and no, they didn't. And everybody else should disclaim you for presuming to speak for them AND trying to get yet another thread locked.

EDIT: Mission accomplished, as per the usual.

Will you apologize to this board for the conflict you've willingly and purposely initiated...? Will you even have the self-awareness to recognize it, as I did those eBay users of long ago...?

I guess we'll see.
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Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@DocBrown

This was all you buddy. How Can I Block Someone Here

Calm down, be a good boy and get a treat.



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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
No, you don't, and no, they didn't.


Yes, he does, and yes, we did.
Post 95 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNampa
@DocBrown

This was all you buddy. How Can I Block Someone Here


According to who...? You? The mods didn't post an explanation for why that thread was locked, and yet, there you were, post #115, acting like there was some big fight going on.

No, that was alllll "KingNampa", with his "guys, sob, don't fight like this, it's tearing us apart!" manipulation of the mods into locking the thread.

That's what you set out to accomplish, and that's exactly what happened. Congrats!

The presumption you display is pretty breathtaking. If you have a problem with someone, take it up with the moderation. You don't "speak" for anyone but yourself, and it's not your "duty" to tell anyone when you think they're out of line.
Post 96 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
No, you don't, and no, they didn't.


Yes, he does, and yes, we did.


Oh, really...? And which thread was that in...?

et tu, kaptainmyke...?
Post 97 IP   flag post
I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
That is privileged information, mam.
Post 98 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
That is privileged information, mam.


I'm not a "mam", and if you have something from the OWNERS of this board on this...not the presumptuous...point me to it.
Post 99 IP   flag post
I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Top secret.
Post 100 IP   flag post
I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life. kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Above your pay grade.
Post 101 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@kaptainmyke back off. You aren't trained to handle this situation. You are going to make him more agitated.




Post 102 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Well, at least those are better than the stupid "cats with yarn" pics.

Oops. Now I've asked for it.
Post 103 IP   flag post
Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Above your pay grade.


Eventually, when someone at Beckett notices, this bullshit schoolyard taunting will cease.
Post 104 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Well, at least those are better than the stupid "cats with yarn" pics.

Oops. Now I've asked for it.


Shh..Shh...Good, good. Now lay and your back and you can have a treat and a belly rub.


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