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X-Men #1206418

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Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Jesse_O Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'd really like someone to explain to me why they would consider 120 a "cameo" appearance. The first two pages of the book names the team and shows every member of the team!!! These aren't flashbacks, them appearing in the background or remaining unnamed instances. CGC calls it the first appearance. CBCS calls it the first appearance. I haven't checked Overstreet. Comic Vine says it is the first appearance. It seems to be generally accepted as the first appearance. How do you classify it as a cameo?? Huh, CGC calls it first appearance? No, they don’t. According to CGC, X-Men #120 is the “1st Appearance of Alpha Flight in Cameo”.
	7 years ago	Post 26 • IP flag post

Collector 1.11K	1.11K Redshade private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck @Jesse_O Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'd really like someone to explain to me why they would consider 120 a "cameo" appearance. The first two pages of the book names the team and shows every member of the team!!! These aren't flashbacks, them appearing in the background or remaining unnamed instances. CGC calls it the first appearance. CBCS calls it the first appearance. I haven't checked Overstreet. Comic Vine says it is the first appearance. It seems to be generally accepted as the first appearance. How do you classify it as a cameo?? Huh, CGC calls it first appearance? No, they don’t. According to CGC, X-Men #120 is the “1st Appearance of Alpha Flight in Cameo”. If you look at my #120 CBCS in post #22 above, it says : 1st appearance of Alpha Flight. Sunfire and Mariko Yashido appearance.
	7 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Redshade Those are not CGC.
	7 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

Collector 1.11K	1.11K Redshade private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck @Redshade Those are not CGC. I know. The CBCS logo is clear in the photo. I have amended my text.
	7 years ago	Post 29 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Now I see where the confusion is. CGC messed it up!!! And I obviously misread the label.
	7 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Jesse_O Lol. I have both issues, so I’m good either way
	7 years ago	Post 31 • IP flag post

Collector 11.12K	11.12K MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'd really like someone to explain to me why they would consider 120 a "cameo" appearance. The first two pages of the book names the team and shows every member of the team!!! These aren't flashbacks, them appearing in the background or remaining unnamed instances. CGC calls it the first appearance. CBCS calls it the first appearance. I haven't checked Overstreet. Comic Vine says it is the first appearance. It seems to be generally accepted as the first appearance. How do you classify it as a cameo?? I guess the door is wide open as long as Uncanny X-Men Annual 14 is considered a cameo.
	7 years ago	Post 32 • IP flag post

Collector 8.55K	8.55K doog private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Just won this on EBay. Heard this will be the Alpha Flight movie villains. Could not find a variant.
	7 years ago	Post 33 • IP flag post

Collector 8.09K	8.09K Drogio private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Will Bob & Doug McKenzie make an appearance? Maybe sing the twelve days of Christmas? Hosers.
	7 years ago	Post 34 • IP flag post

I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans. 103.21K	103.21K esaravo private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Drogio Will Bob & Doug McKenzie make an appearance? Maybe sing the twelve days of Christmas? Hosers. Bring over some Labatts or Molsons and we can watch Strange Brew!
	7 years ago	Post 35 • IP flag post

Collector 15.57K	15.57K BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	@Jesse_O I say it is a cameo. Besides Vindicator who becomes an Alpha Flight member and was in Xmen 109, they are basically introduced but have no talking parts. Unlike X Factor#5 which is considered a cameo of Apocolypes, except in X factor #5 Apocolypes says about 120 words and is in multiple panels. For me X Factor #5 would make a better argument for being a first App.
	7 years ago	Post 36 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by thelastbard Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Another X-Men example is Uncanny X-Men #282 (First Bishop Cameo) and Uncanny X-Men #283 (First Full Appearance of Bishop). Multiple reasons for Uncanny #282 being worth what it is... First Blue Team or Gold Team (whichever it was in the issue), first Whilce Portacio in X-Men, different creative team in general (including Byrne plotting), and Bishop cameo. Pretty stacked issue. Bishop first appearance in #283 doesn't quite match that. First Blue/Gold was X-Men #1 and Uncanny #281. Other than Bishop, Whilce Portacio, and Scott Williams being on the cover, there's nothing particularly special about #282.
	7 years ago	Post 37 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley UXM 281 was the split into Blue/Gold teams after the original lineup came back into the fold. 282 names Bishop in the cover in majestic, generic pose. That's the only reason I can think of it being more valued. 283 may be the first full appearance, but my lowly opinion is that the cover for 282 is the selling point. Dudley beat me to it.
	7 years ago	Post 38 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O I'd really like someone to explain to me why they would consider 120 a "cameo" appearance. The first two pages of the book names the team and shows every member of the team!!! These aren't flashbacks, them appearing in the background or remaining unnamed instances. CGC calls it the first appearance. CBCS calls it the first appearance. I haven't checked Overstreet. Comic Vine says it is the first appearance. It seems to be generally accepted as the first appearance. How do you classify it as a cameo?? It's really quite simple. Alpha Flight appears on panel only in their civilian identities. That's not "Alpha Flight." The team does not appear, except off-panel with arms and legs and whatnot, until the last page. That is why it is considered a cameo appearance.
	7 years ago	Post 39 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@DocBrown, so because there is no "team picture", it's a cameo? @BrianGreensnips' explanation makes a bit more sense then that. I guess it really doesn't matter. It appears that only CGC agrees that it is a cameo. I've searched numerous sources and every one of them states #120 as the first appearance of Alpha Flight. I couldn't care less what CGC thinks. But I see where the confusion comes from now. As long as anyone who googles the first appearance of Alpha Flight and gets X-Men #120 as the answer, I'm fine with it. And no, I do not own a copy of X-Men #120, but I do have a run of "Alpha Flight" comics.
	7 years ago	Post 40 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@Jesse_O @DocBrown @BrianGreensnips For what it’s worth, the Alpha Flight Wikipedia entry also currently considers Uncanny X-Men #120 as First Cameo of Alpha Flight and #121 as First Full Appearance of Alpha Flight. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Flight
	7 years ago	Post 41 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O @DocBrown, so because there is no "team picture", it's a cameo? No. I'll say it again: The people who compose the team known as "Alpha Flight" appear on panel only in their civilian identities. They do not appear AS ALPHA FLIGHT (that is, in costume, as super heroes) until the last page, and various arms, legs, and other appendages in a couple more panels in the book. Now...think about it: if Clark Kent didn't show up in costume, would you say Superman had appeared in that story...? The answer, of course, is no. But it's nice of you to acknowledge my post.
	7 years ago	Post 42 • IP flag post

Forum Crier 54.65K	54.65K OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	Maybe the phrases should be changed to first mention and first full story. Seems less confusing.
	7 years ago	Post 43 • IP flag post

Collector 10.3K	10.3K GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by OGJackster Maybe the phrases should be changed to first mention and first full story. Seems less confusing. Yep, I agree.
	7 years ago	Post 44 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 1.96K	1.96K Wolverine private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Me and my buddy were geeking out over some drinks the other day about how they could introduce Alpha Flight and Wolverine into the MCU. Had some great ideas
	7 years ago	Post 45 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jesse_O @BrianGreensnips' explanation makes a bit more sense then that. I guess it really doesn't matter. It appears that only CGC agrees that it is a cameo. I've searched numerous sources and every one of them states #120 as the first appearance of Alpha Flight. I couldn't care less what CGC thinks. But I see where the confusion comes from now. As long as anyone who googles the first appearance of Alpha Flight and gets X-Men #120 as the answer, I'm fine with it. And no, I do not own a copy of X-Men #120, but I do have a run of "Alpha Flight" comics. Who cares what anyone thinks? If you disagree with it, and you can make a reasonable case, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Even if everyone disagrees with you, if you can make a reasonable argument, that's all that matters. For example: everybody and their mother says "Detective Comics #40" is the first "Joker" cover. And I understand why they say that...after all, the Joker appears in the exact same position as the cover character on the splash page, and the story is a Joker story. However...the character on the cover is quite clearly and obviously NOT the Joker. It doesn't matter what they intended...that character doesn't look like the Joker. No ruby red lips, no white skin...none of the trademark characteristics that make the Joker stand out. The character holding the ax on the cover IS NOT the Joker, as illustrated. However...you are quite mistaken if you think that CGC is the only entity that "agrees that it is a cameo." Alpha Flight is first mentioned in OPG #11 as "120, 121-Alpha Flight." For the next four years, there was debate about what those appearances actually were. It wasn't until the 1985 OPG (#15) that they had come to a decision on the matter, at which point it breaks out #120 by itself, and says "120-1st app. Alpha Flight (cameo), story line begins. And #121 says - "121-1st full Alpha Flight story." (emphasis added) And that's how the situation remained for a couple of decades. So, no, the disagreement DID NOT originate with CGC. It originated long before CGC existed. If you disagree, you're perfectly free to make your case. But it would be a mistake not to acknowledge the cases and conclusions made by those who have gone before us.
	7 years ago	Post 46 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck @Jesse_O @DocBrown @BrianGreensnips For what it’s worth, the Alpha Flight Wikipedia entry also currently considers Uncanny X-Men #120 as First Cameo of Alpha Flight and #121 as First Full Appearance of Alpha Flight. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Flight Now watch someone go change it...
	7 years ago	Post 47 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by OGJackster Maybe the phrases should be changed to first mention and first full story. Seems less confusing. Kinda like what the OPG did for a couple of decades....?
	7 years ago	Post 48 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Wolverine Me and my buddy were geeking out over some drinks the other day about how they could introduce Alpha Flight and Wolverine into the MCU. Had some great ideas That would be funny if they had a Deadpool/Alpha Flight crossover, and got all American actors for AF. Easy joke there.
	7 years ago	Post 49 • IP flag post

Captain Corrector 6.12K	6.12K CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	@OGJackster Problem is that this could also refer to promotional mentions of upcoming appearances. For instance Iron Fist #19 ‘mentions’ the character Wolverine.
	7 years ago	Post 50 • IP flag post

Collector 16.89K	16.89K DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck @OGJackster Problem is that this could also refer to promotional mentions of upcoming appearances. For instance Iron Fist #19 ‘mentions’ the character Wolverine. True, but that book (Marvel Premiere #19) came out AFTER Hulk #180. But what of Iron Fist #13...which contains a very obvious cameo of Sabretooth, but which has NEVER gotten any widespread acknowledgement...? (The answer is because it's an ad, a preview...not a story appearance. Same with New Mutants #86.)
	7 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

Collector 8.09K	8.09K Drogio private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck @OGJackster Problem is that this could also refer to promotional mentions of upcoming appearances. For instance Iron Fist #19 ‘mentions’ the character Wolverine. True, but that book (Marvel Premiere #19) came out AFTER Hulk #180. But what of Iron Fist #13...which contains a very obvious cameo of Sabretooth, but which has NEVER gotten any widespread acknowledgement...? (The answer is because it's an ad, a preview...not a story appearance. Same with New Mutants #86.) And new mutants annual #6 (first Shatterstar, via a pin-up)!
	7 years ago	Post 52 • IP flag post

-Our Odin-
Rest in Peace

39.35K

Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown
Who cares what anyone thinks? If you disagree with it, and you can make a reasonable case, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Even if everyone disagrees with you, if you can make a reasonable argument, that's all that matters.

And I did that on post #19.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBrown
Alpha Flight is first mentioned in OPG #11 as "120, 121-Alpha Flight." For the next four years, there was debate about what those appearances actually were.

It wasn't until the 1985 OPG (#15) that they had come to a decision on the matter, at which point it breaks out #120 by itself, and says "120-1st app. Alpha Flight (cameo), story line begins.

And #121 says - "121-1st full Alpha Flight story."

@DocBrown - I don't have a 30+ year collection of OPG's. Do you happen to know when they switched to the terms that @OGJackster posted a screenshot of in post #21?

7 years ago

Forum Crier 54.65K	54.65K OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Another issue I just thought of is if it went to "first mention", the value and demand for free preview books would exponentially rise. Here's a question. What is the first appearance of The Walking Dead? Capes #1 has a 5-page "preview" of The Walking Dead but not considered the 1st... or is it?
	7 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 59.73K	59.73K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	They do count previews. DC Comics Presents 26 for Starfire, Raven, and Cyborg and New Teen Titans 16 for Captain Carrot.
	7 years ago	Post 55 • IP flag post

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