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Retroactive on-site signature verification?6190

Collector czarnickolas private msg quote post Address this user
I have a copy of Eternal Warrior #1 (flat gold logo variant) that I am 100% certain was signed by Jim Shooter in store back in the 1990s. I sent it in for verification, and CBCS was unable to confirm that it was, indeed, Jim Shooter's signature (it's evolved significantly over time). The book was in pristine shape otherwise, but the unverified signature took the grade down a healthy amount. I've since removed it from its slab.

My question now is this: if I were to get a CBCS auth witness at a convention to accompany me to Jim Shooter's table and he were to confirm that it was his signature, would that suffice for a "witnessed signature," or do they actually have to see him sign the book? My heart tells me this would suffice, but you never know.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
The short answr is No. In order for a book to get a “Witnessed Signature” notation on the label, the signing has to be witnessed by a CBCS authorized witness. They can’t take a pre-signed book and ask the person to confirm it after the fact.

Additionally, a witnessed signature is noted with the date of the signing, which could not be done now, even if CBCS did verify the signature.

One thing though, CBCS recently changed who verifies signatures for them and now it’s done by Beckett Media, their new parent company. There’s always a chance they may be able to verify but I would of course email them to ask first before laying out more cash
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COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I have always wondered, if a signer traces over an old signature in front of an authorized witness. Is that considered a SS, and voids away "writing" on a book?

Also, if an artist decides (like Prince did with his name), to use a picture or symbol for his signature. Is it a sketch, or a signature?

And finally, is there a difference between a "remarque" (remark?) and a "sketch"?

Yep, I have lots of time on my hands.
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Collector mattness private msg quote post Address this user
I had a book signed by Bob Layton a couple years ago. When I got the book home it turned out that the ink didn't take to the cover very well. There was spotting and fading, it looked horrible. Mr Layton came around again a few months later so I sent the books to Trinity Comics and Matt had Mr. Layton resign right over the previous signature. I received yellow labels and the sigs look really good.
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Collector czarnickolas private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I have always wondered, if a signer traces over an old signature in front of an authorized witness. Is that considered a SS, and voids away "writing" on a book?


If the AW sees the signature, and the grader can't determine that there's stuff under the new signature, that seems like a yellow label without grade penalty to me, especially given the story from @mattness.
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Collector vacaboca private msg quote post Address this user
Why not have him sign it again, with an arrow to the other sig saying "that's mine, too!" - yellow label!
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Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by czarnickolas
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
I have always wondered, if a signer traces over an old signature in front of an authorized witness. Is that considered a SS, and voids away "writing" on a book?


If the AW sees the signature, and the grader can't determine that there's stuff under the new signature, that seems like a yellow label without grade penalty to me, especially given the story from @mattness.


The book could theoretically pass mustard in the grading room, but it would never get that far.

Having a creator sign or remark a book that has has an unwitnessed or an unverified signature would break the contractual agreement between the CBCS AW and CBCS.

Furthermore, it is impossible for a second signature to completely "cover up" a pre-existing signature, due to bleed through on the interior cover.The digital technology used to verify signatures (well beyond just visually inspecting and comparing signatures by human eye) would reveal two varieties of ink in the signed area.

Even if you found an unethical AW that was willing to break protocol, and the creator was also willing to sign over what could be a faked signature, the signature verification process would catch variations in the ink substrates.

That would result in the signature not passing verification, and the prompt termination of the AW's contract with CBCS.

CBCS cannot risk having the integrity of the VSP being questioned. Anything along those lines would hurt the market perception and value of the CBCS brand, as a whole.
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Collector RyanHicks private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
One thing though, CBCS recently changed who verifies signatures for them and now it’s done by Beckett Media, their new parent company. There’s always a chance they may be able to verify but I would of course email them to ask first before laying out more cash


@Dielinfinite is right, CBCS recently changed who they do their signature verification through; it is now done through Beckett rather than CSA. You can check names against Becketts database here: http://beckett-authentication.com/pricing which Jim Shooter is definitely in there; however, I can tell you that CSA also had Shooter on file for sure which tells me that it wasn't that CSA couldn't verify Shooters sig, it was probably more likely that your copy failed verification unfortunately If you witnessed the signature yourself, it might still be worth resubmitting to run against the new signature database but if it fails again, you will just be out the $25 verification fee again.
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Collector 1243782365 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattness
I had a book signed by Bob Layton a couple years ago. When I got the book home it turned out that the ink didn't take to the cover very well. There was spotting and fading, it looked horrible. Mr Layton came around again a few months later so I sent the books to Trinity Comics and Matt had Mr. Layton resign right over the previous signature. I received yellow labels and the sigs look really good.


Interesting
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