Ebay fun - Just the facts6153
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 20 days really is just a blink of the eye. Between the tax deadline, comic shows, keeping up with my buyers, and roughly 800 books received from CBCS let's just say I had a busy month. |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Masochism You're continuing to demonstrate how you're not someone who is interested in stellar customer service. You make emotional arguments, rather than reasoned ones, you make false equivalencies, and lash out at those who challenge you. I didn't say you're "trying to get one over on someone." I said you SOUND like it. Your ATTITUDE makes it look like you are. Whether you are are not is between you and drchaos. I am most certainly not drchaos, but what would it matter if I was? Is there substance to what I'm saying, or isn't there? That's all that matters. As a seller, impressions are everything. You're not making a good one. Will you see that? We'll see. |
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| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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Squack private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Posted in jest, of course, but it seems that both sides of the argument here are looking for justification of their actions, with some backing the seller and some supporting the buyer. Your response is indicative of the point that is being missed by the buyer @DocBrown, he did not justify the difference in the item as being described incorrectly. The point missed by the seller, is simply this: It doesn't matter why. Nothing you can do at this point can save the sale |
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| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown This  Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown Yep. I would suggest @drchaos and @Masochism let ebay decide if its not as described. They do require evidence and reason, last I went through it with someone. |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
 Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Holy cow! You got 800 books back in one month? That's like Xmas coming everyday. | ||
| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Gaard Watch the Star Trek episode "The Trouble With Tribbles". I have slabs in my hallway and in my car until I get the next 20 CGC boxes I ordered. I thought I had until May to make room for these books but CBCS turned most of them around within 60 days. |
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| Post 81 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer The requirement is lip service. The buyer can put essentially anything they want, and it will be approved. Sellers can appeal, but eBay no longer cares. The buyer wants the book to go back, it goes back. Surely you know that eBay is mostly run by automation, right? And that their "customer service" is just people paid $5/day in the Philippines, reading from scripts? There isn't actually a person looking at a not as described case and saying "hmmm...you know, I think the buyer's right. That IS an undisclosed 5 inch crease there!" Quote: Originally Posted by Squack I am in support of neither the buyer nor the seller. I am about as impartial a third person as there probably is in this case. I see almost nothing eye to eye with drchaos, and I don't know this Masochism fellow. I'm advocating for standard and best business practice only. Quote: Originally Posted by Squack True. He can certainly make things worse, though. |
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| Post 82 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Interesting. That has not been my experience, although it is possible things have changed. It has been about 4 years since I went through it, and someone from ebay looked at both sides of the story and made a determination based on the evidence. |
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| Post 83 • IP flag post | ||
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I would really be surprised if Ebay had someone do that with a comic book. I could see it being done on some other things, but a comic book? You know, a radio that did not work or whatever. But a disagreement on the merits of a comic book's grade? I would like to see that happen, and read the reason for the ruling. |
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| Post 84 • IP flag post | ||
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Cowabunga_Kyle private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm going to chalk this up to a learning experience. I don't have a say in the matter, but I do have a say in whether or not I'll ever sell higher dollar books on eBay again. I do apologize if my customer service skills are weak. Waking up to a negative PayPal balance is not something I'm prepared to deal with with much enthusiasm when I represented my items as best I could and the buyer is saying I gave him something other than what was advertised. Because that's is not what happened. Live and learn. My eBay username is CoverSwipes, anyone who feels like I should be avoided can add me to their blacklist. Have a good day everyone, and happy hunting to all. |
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| Post 85 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkga private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown The customer is not always right even in transactions though. Otherwise contract attorneys would be out of work.  |
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| Post 86 • IP flag post | ||
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KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There's also such a thing as caveat emptor. The buyer had scans and the book was ungraded. The OP has yet to list the defects that didn't show up in the scans, much less provide evidence. The OP got the books, looked at them and apparently left feedback. At that point, how long does one wait before cashing the check? It's not like it was a lawn mower or a blender that needed to be used a few times to ensure that things were mechanically sound? 20 days sounds excessive. @DocBrown - While I don't disagree with most of your points about customer service. It really doesn't matter if Masochism cares about it or not. If it's bad then people will quit doing business with him, plain and simple. Or if he has the merchandise they want, they will buy. A restaurant in my hometown has been open for over 30 years. Horrible customer service, to the point it's a running joke. How have they stayed in business? The food is excellent. Also, while the customer may always be right, they may not always be right for you (even when they are wrong). I've had to fire clients before and we were both much happier with the outcomes. I don't know either of these guys, but after agreeing that the books he received were the ones he bid on and had scans of and waiting 20 days,it does just seem like a case of buyers remorse. Especially without a list of defects that were not evident on the scan. (Were pages ripped out, big spills on the inside). |
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| Post 87 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KYoung_1974 I never left feedback but would have done so if I were satisfied with the condition of the book. | ||
| Post 88 • IP flag post | ||
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KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drchaos - you may not have left official EBay feedback, but you at some point you sent him a message, either on here or through ebay and said that they packaging was good, etc. Was that at the time you requested the refund or after you received the books? | ||
| Post 89 • IP flag post | ||
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Cowabunga_Kyle private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 it was yesterday  |
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| Post 90 • IP flag post | ||
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Marximus private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What I get from this thread is this: I can over-bid for a book. When it arrives, I can take it to a presser or appraiser and see if they agree with me...that I over-bid for the book. When I get around to it, I can then request a refund from seller, who hasn't done anything to misrepresent his product.....and EBay will force the seller to refund me my $$. If I ever behave like the buyer I just described, I'd have to kick my own a$$. Just sayin... |
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| Post 91 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 That was the message I sent yesterday when I requested a refund. The message was ignored by the seller leaving me to open a claim on ebay. I just looked over the book again. While there were several spine ticks visible in the scans posted here (these could not be observed in the pictures with the ebay listing) the extent of the damage to the interior corners and to the outside edges of the book were not readily observable. Additionally on the interior cover (under the black of domino's costume) there is what appears to be a slight water stain. There is no way anyone could see it without looking at the inside of the book. I wasn't expecting perfection when I bought the book but this one has more warts than I bargained for. |
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| Post 92 • IP flag post | ||
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Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Squack Yeah, this has basically been my reaction to the thread:  |
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| Post 93 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 And that's the crux of it, isn't it...? "the food is excellent." This Masochism fellow could have rotten customer service...but he didn't have the "excellent food" to make up for it. Your restaurant wouldn't stay in business for 30 days if the customers all had the same reaction that drchaos has with the book Masochism sent him. That's the pivot point, right there. This isn't absolute, as I have pointed out. These are principles. If you want to run a successful business, you accept that, as a seller, your opinion about the condition of an item doesn't really matter...it's the buyer who must be satisfied. Look at the significant damage that Masochism has done to his reputation, here. I don't know the guy, and have never done business with him, nor interacted with him before...but his responses and behavior ensures that I would never do business with him...and I can't be alone. The correct thing to do? "I'm sorry you weren't happy with the item. If you send it back, I'll be happy to refund you." This thread is a Master Class in "how to do everything wrong as a seller." "But what about how to do everything wrong as a buyer??" That's not relevant. Transactions are unique, lopsided experiences. The buyer doesn't need the seller. But the seller absolutely needs the buyer. Consider: Yelp reviews can sink a business, lickety split. You get some bad Yelp reviews, and you're toast. But tell me: how many Yelp reviewers are subsequently blocked from other businesses because they left an unfair Yelp review...? Has that every happened? Almost certainly not. The buyer has all the control, because the buyer has his choice of who he wishes to do business with. A seller has no choice, and must take what comes through the door, whether literal or virtual. Now...that doesn't mean they can't refuse service, or they can't choose to not do business with someone in the future...but they can't go out and "hire" customers. They must persuade. They must convince. They must be attractive. They must offer a better deal. They must offer something that the buyer thinks is better than the competition. And that's fine, because ultimately, it's the buyer spending his or her hard earned money, and they have the right "Caveat emptor" doesn't mean "I get to screw you", as a LOT of scummy sellers have tried over the millenia. It's not an excuse for corruption. "Oh, well, you were warned! You can't complain that I screwed you. After all...Caveat Emptor!" It just means "beware. Watch out. Do your due diligence. Inspect. Don't throw your money at every Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes along." Quote: Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 Right: "block the bidder, and move on." Blocking the bidder is firing the client. |
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| Post 94 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Marximus That's an unfair assessment of the situation, based on the evidence available. |
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| Post 95 • IP flag post | ||
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KYoung_1974 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos Wait! Wait! Wait! You waited 20 days to look over the merch and then sent a message you weren't happy. And when the seller didn't respond in less than ONE day, you opened up a claim and posted here. Did I read that correctly? |
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| Post 96 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYoung_1974 Would it have been fair, in your view, if the buyer had waited 20 days for a response from the seller? Again: buyers and sellers are NOT in equitable positions. This isn't a "find the time, open the package, look over the book, inspect it for flaws, think about whether those flaws are acceptable, decide on a course of action, then contact seller." This is "respond to buyer's concern." A day to hear something back is not entirely unreasonable. I would have waited 2-3 days, but a day is not that bad. All the seller had to do was say "Thanks for contacting me. I'll get back to you as soon as I can." To counter your statement above: the seller responded HERE...even though it was completely anonymous....within MINUTES of the OP. The seller sure found time to respond pretty fast here, right...? |
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| Post 98 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos I see no problem with returning the book, given the water stain on the interior of the cover as that was neither disclosed or discernable via the scans provided. This is why I assign a grafe to all books and I note any significant defects not seen in scans. On books like this one, I upload still shot digital camera pics, taken during daytime hours by a window with natural sunlight and an overhead light on. It is better to grade accurately and highlight defects, than have to deal with a return. |
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| Post 99 • IP flag post | ||
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MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Maybe a little, but I'm genuinely disappointed. I was going to look closer at the listing when I got home. Cool books. |
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| Post 100 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer And you believe anyone at eBay is qualified to make such a determination...? Especially about something as esoteric as the grade of a comic...? They don't. eBay doesn't hire forensic experts to sift through evidence and come to a determination. They pay drones $5/day in the Philippines to read from scripts. John Donahoe looked at the numbers when he became CEO in 2008 and realized that Amazon was destroying eBay...and the reason was because buyers didn't want to deal with people's overestimated crap anymore, and the systemic unwillingness of eBay to deal with it. So...and remember, this was purely a numbers issue with Donahoe...they decided to model their returns after Amazon, which is essentially unlimited. There is some merit to this philosophy, but it obviously can be taken too far. There is no one actually looking at cases; it's all automated now. IF you call in, then yes, someone will manually look at the case...and then decide in the buyer's favor. Since that change in 2008, I have never had a return denied. In fact, you could probably put "item smelled very badly of unicorn farts", and the claim wouldn't be denied unless the seller challenged it...and even then, it's iffy, because eBay doesn't care. They want those returns processed and done with. They don't want to deal with buyer complaints. |
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| Post 101 • IP flag post | ||
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GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MR_SigS Quote: Originally Posted by MR_SigS Disappointed in what? The fact I tried to help these two gentlemen come to an agreement outside of eBay where they BOTH don't lose money? I have no feelings for the USPS as my wife and I have bought many of things on-line just to have the mail carriers "misdelivered" the mail... When you check the tracking history it will show "delivered" but we never received the items. It was only delivered to another address within the same zip code so it shows "delivered." This is how they track the mail. Called Geo-Tracking. Sure they admitted to dropping it off to the wrong address, & asking the person to return the item, but if the person is dishonest, they cant do anything about it and the Post Office will not tell you the address of the person they misdelivered the item to. (You know, for safety concerns. - So they say.) Here is a Google reviews of my local Post Office in York, SC. (Google them yourself to read all the reviews.) They have lost four of our packages so far this year alone. So excuse me if I choose to take out my aggression on the worthless bastards as a means to try and settle a dispute between two comic collectors on this forum.   |
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| Post 102 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GanaSoth Doubtless, you've heard of the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right." Your bad experiences with the USPS doesn't justify opening a fraudulent claim against them. I am not unsympathetic to your frustration. I've had them myself. I had a postal supervisor imply that I was potentially defrauding them to my face...that "Gosh, I sure did have a problem with "losing" a lot of packages", after one of HER window clerks released a SIGNATURE CONFIRMED (meaning they have to CHECK ID) package to someone else, after the year before having a single OTHER package put in someone else's PO box. Yes, TWO packages, BOTH lost because of USPS mishandling, and this bitch was trying to blame me. The nerve of that bitch was astounding. But the way to deal with it is by being above board yourself, and seek justice through the proper channels. Otherwise...you're no better than they are. |
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| Post 103 • IP flag post | ||
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I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Much like the boy who cried wolf, anyone who files false damage claims against USPS deserves to have a legitimate claim denied in the future. | ||
| Post 104 • IP flag post | ||
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GanaSoth private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Of course I've heard that saying, but I hate the USPS and from what I read so do you from your experiences. I was just offering a solution so that BOTH the buyer & the seller could come out on top. Also, I had to share my experience as to and why I would even consider giving the seller and buyer such advice. I'm not trying to justify or persuade people into my way of thinking or feeling. But if there was a way for both parties to come to an agreement, (not lose money on either side)then I gave that advice. Nothing more nothing less. Quote: Originally Posted by drchaos Don't try to spin the spotlight on me when your the one in the limelight. |
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