Pedigree question | CBCS Comics

COLLECTOR 20.52K	20.52K DarthLego private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	From the CGC web page on Pedigree comics: Countless collections of comic books have surfaced over the years. Some of the collections that have come out only include a handful of comics, while others contain thousands. Every now and then, a collection is found that is so exceptional that it becomes recognized as a pedigree. The Edgar Church/Mile High find was the first original owner collection to ever be called a pedigree. Though this collection was found after a few other collections that are considered pedigrees today, it remains the most famous pedigree in our hobby to date and it is the reason that collectors started to call certain collections pedigrees. Pedigree status is acknowledged by CGC based on a combination of the following criteria: The collection must be original owner. This means that the books must have been bought off the newsstand as they came out. For example, a collector cannot buy a high-grade run of 1940s comics from various sources and expect it to be considered a pedigree. The original owner need not currently own the comics for the collection to be considered for pedigree status. The collection must be of vintage material. This means that a large collection consisting of comics from the 1970s to present cannot be considered a pedigree. In fact, until the sale of some key White Mountain books in a Sotheby’s auction in the early 1990s, Silver Age comics were not accepted as pedigree collections. Comic books from 1966 and after are relatively common in high grade compared to earlier issues. This occurred as a direct result of a tremendous explosion in the number of collectors in fandom in the mid-1960s. Collections that are primarily from 1966 and after must have average grades of at least 9.4 to be considered a pedigree. The collection must consist of a considerable number of comics. Most pedigree collections consist of at least 1,000 books and some number over 10,000 comics. The collections that consist of fewer books, such as the Allentown and Denver collections, must include extremely rare, important, and/or key material. The collection must be high-grade. Comics from the Silver Age in general would have to be 9.2 and higher, and a collection of exclusive Silver Age material must have an average grade of 9.4. Golden Age comics would have to be high-grade as well. For example, the Lost Valley collection consisted of many golden age books from before 1941 that were technically mid-grade, but were almost across the board the highest graded copy for that book. Page quality must be nice as well. Many of the pedigree collections were recognized and accepted by the hobby before CGC came into existence in late 1999. CGC recognizes the following pedigree collections on the CGC label: Allentown Aurora Bethlehem Big Apple Boston Bowling Green Carson City Central Valley Chicago Cosmic Aeroplane Crowley Curator Davis Crippen “D” Copy Denver Don Rosa Collection Don/Maggie Thompson Collection Edgar Church (Mile High) Gaines File Copy Green River Hawkeye Kansas City Larson Lost Valley Mass. Copy Mohawk Valley Haight-Ashbury Northford Northland Nova Scotia Oakland Ohio Okajima Pacific Coast Palo Alto Pennsylvania Recil Macon River City Rockford Rocky Mountain Salida San Francisco Savannah Spokane Suscha News Twilight Twin Cities Vancouver Western Penn White Mountain Windy City Winnipeg
	9 years ago	Post 17 • IP flag post

@DarthLego The exact criteria also varies, though I hesitate to say widely so. ComicPedigrees.com uses the following four criteria.

1. Origin: This one they share with CGC. The books had to have been purchased by a single owner as the books were released. I like that they expand on why they feel this part is inportant and that is that the books then are stored in similar condition, giving all the books in the collection a certain "feel"

2. Quality. Similar if slightly different from CGC's description. The books should be in excellent condition. CGC likes to throw around "minimum average grades" and I can't help but feel that it's a little bit of their bias showing through. Comic Pedigrees acknowledges a pedigree can contain books of a wide range of conditions, especially after the books are sold and no longer continue to "age together" as per the previous bullet, but does mention the books tend to be in better condition overall without suggesting a minimum average grade requirement.

3. Completeness. This is where they diverge from CGC a little. CGC focuses on the size of the collection while Comic Pedigrees suggests the collection should have a degree of completeness in that it collects all or most of the important books in the genre or niche they cover.

4. Marketplace Acceptance. This isn't covered by CGC, probably because CGC pretty much embodies this point due to their place in the industry. CP says that a pedigree should be acknowledged and accepted as significant by the marketplace as a whole. Due to CGC and the high-value comic book market becoming nearly synonymous, CGC's acceptance of a Pedigree thus is accepted as the Market's acceptance of the pedigree.

It's all pretty interesting, even for me who has no real interest in collecting pedigree books.

http://www.comicpedigrees.com/pedigree-criteria.php

Collector 1.29K	1.29K Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	I was just wondering if anyone knew if they would recognize a pedigree on the label even if one was not aware they owned a known pedigree book?
	9 years ago	Post 1 • IP flag post

COLLECTOR 27.05K	27.05K dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	I believe that submitting as a pedigree also requires documentation to help identify a book as being part of a certain collection. Maybe some pedigrees have identifying marks or something but otherwise a pedigree book is pretty much indistinguishable from another copy of the same book. From the CBCS FAQ: Quote: Originally Posted by CBCS A pedigree is a comic that came from a well preserved and extensively documented vintage collection. These collections are well known within the comic collecting hobby and recognized as being significant for various reasons. Please send with the comic, any certificates or paperwork & it will be sent back to you with your submission. A comic will only receive a pedigree designation if CBCS's pedigree experts can positively ascertain its authenticity.
	9 years ago	Post 2 • IP flag post

Collector 1.29K	1.29K Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Pretty much what I figured. I have one book that I just submitted that has a mark similar to a pedigree whose name I forget at this time has but that, I assume, is just a coincidence.
	9 years ago	Post 3 • IP flag post

Moderator 4.29K	4.29K The_Watcher private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	There are pedigrees that have distinguishing marks: codes, date stamps, store stamps, letters written of the cover, names written on the cover, checkmarks, etc. Mind you, having one of those features doesn't necessarily mean it's from pedigree collection. If the graders think the book might be a pedigree copy, they may contact you and ask where or from whom it was bought. Provenance is very important when it comes to labeling a book from a pedigree
	9 years ago	Post 4 • IP flag post

Collector 1.29K	1.29K Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Right. Thanks Watcher. I am fairly sure it is just coincidence but I thought maybe just because the very same day I purchased one book off eBay there was this one pedigree that came up that had a very similar stamp. Again, I am sure just coincidence but we will see.
	9 years ago	Post 5 • IP flag post

Collector 97	97 143ksk private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	A picture would be very helpful
	9 years ago	Post 6 • IP flag post

-Our Odin- Rest in Peace 39.35K	39.35K Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	That's a sweet comic even if it's not a pedigree!!!
	9 years ago	Post 8 • IP flag post

Collector 4.42K	4.42K Rafel private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	How does one become a "Pedigree"?
	9 years ago	Post 14 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.66K	31.66K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Rafel How does one become a "Pedigree"? By being a comic book in a large single owner collection for a very long time and remaining in high grade.
	9 years ago	Post 15 • IP flag post

Please continue to ignore anything I post. 34.97K	34.97K southerncross private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	market acceptance is the most important.collectors give to much power to cgc if church collection was found today technically it would not be considered a pedigree as the early books like the Detective 1 was not bought off the newstands but a 2nd hand book shop I believe.
	9 years ago	Post 19 • IP flag post

Collector 7.91K	7.91K Helric1 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I bought this book a while back and was told it was a White Mountain pedigree. The seller said he couldn't find whatever certificate he had to go with it and I didn't care. I just wanted the book. But I was looking up identifiers for White Mountain and read that they all have a date on the first page. Most up into the 1960s had a stamp. Here's a link to this info http://www.detective27.com/pedigreearticle.htm I could not find any pics of the stamp on any other White Mountain books. Does anyone know if this stamp looks right? Is it possible that would be enough to have it noted as a pedigree if I were to have it graded?
	9 years ago	Post 21 • IP flag post

CBCS Head Grader 19.91K	19.91K SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Yes, in reference to the OP, we have identified books belonging to pedigrees for customers who didn't have a clue when they submitted them.
	9 years ago	Post 22 • IP flag post

Pedigree question578