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Comics Golden AgeComics Restoration and ConservationComics Silver Age

What is/not should be considered Restoration5615

COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Hmm I don't think I like where this thread is going. I will not discuss my methods here.
Post 26 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Pressing, cleaning staples, or dry cleaning a book is not restoration.

Restoration is adding something that was missing, to bring a book back to it’s original state. Neither of the above does this.

Solvent cleaning is on the border of that line but the general consensus is restoration.
How would the staples be cleaned? I would think it would require a solvent or something abrasive to get rust or oxidation off of the staples.


Depends how bad they are. Regardless, it’s removing material, not adding material.

Conservation is a good thing.
Post 27 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Dry cleaning should be considered exactly that. "Dry". No chemicals. No solvents. No anything. Just kleenex or a dust cloth or other methods not mentioned in this thread due to forum rules. Cleaning brings the book back to a previous state.


I guess this is another area where comic collectors take standard words in the human vocabulary and redefine what they mean.

Comics are evidently minted.
The word "Good" is a unpopular and bad condition.
"Dry Cleaning" is no longer a chemical solvent form of cleaning as it has been for decades. I guess you use a feather duster now.

I dont use a feather duster like kaptainmyke. This is my weapon of choice for cleaning books.



Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer

I dont use a feather duster like kaptainmyke. This is my weapon of choice for cleaning books.





I'm detecting dry humor in that post.
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer

I dont use a feather duster like kaptainmyke. This is my weapon of choice for cleaning books.





I'm detecting dry humor in that post.
Yes, a little "dry" humor. We would hope it is not "wet" humor. Lol
Post 30 IP   flag post


COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Lol well, Forum rules. Cant discuss this seriously, so may as well have fun with it 😁
Post 31 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I'm detecting dry humor in that post.


oh god i almost died from the triple pun

bravo!
Post 32 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Is this a close rendition of the process?

Post 33 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
The debate on this topic will never be resolved as it is as subjective as grading itself. However I have resigned myself to accept these facts regardless of my personal opinion: if the major grading companies have degreed that pressing, dry cleaning and some forms of staple cleaning are not restoration, then so be it. Because of that, a whole cottage industry has arisen to exploit that consensus and because of that, there are now so many books out there that have gone through this process, I have ceased to worry about it and if it's disclosed or not as there is no real way to keep track of it or even detect it for sure.
Since the advent of third party grading, there is much more confidence and faith in the true condition and state of a book that is above and beyond anything we've had before and this has been very good for the hobby. There is obviously a demand for this as evidenced by the success of third party grading and the premium we are willing to pay to achieve this level of integrity. It has certainly made it harder for hucksters to defraud people, although some are still trying and this too will never end as there are always going to be bad people trying to figure out a way to cheat people and the system. Thankfully, because these third party grading companies also provide a forum like this, (along with other forms of instant social media), it makes it easier for the hobby to police itself and out these hucksters as we find them.
So are things better for the hobby than what it was 20-30 years ago? I believe so. Is it perfect or nearly perfect? No, as we will never remove the human element, the subjectivity and potential for errors that go with it.
Post 34 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
I feel cleaning up rusty staples is more like restoration compared to pressing a book flat.


This. +1


This. +2
Post 35 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn_Sam
The debate on this topic will never be resolved as it is as subjective as grading itself. However I have resigned myself to accept these facts regardless of my personal opinion: if the major grading companies have degreed that pressing, dry cleaning and some forms of staple cleaning are not restoration, then so be it. Because of that, a whole cottage industry has arisen to exploit that consensus and because of that, there are now so many books out there that have gone through this process, I have ceased to worry about it and if it's disclosed or not as there is no real way to keep track of it or even detect it for sure.
Since the advent of third party grading, there is much more confidence and faith in the true condition and state of a book that is above and beyond anything we've had before and this has been very good for the hobby. There is obviously a demand for this as evidenced by the success of third party grading and the premium we are willing to pay to achieve this level of integrity. It has certainly made it harder for hucksters to defraud people, although some are still trying and this too will never end as there are always going to be bad people trying to figure out a way to cheat people and the system. Thankfully, because these third party grading companies also provide a forum like this, (along with other forms of instant social media), it makes it easier for the hobby to police itself and out these hucksters as we find them.
So are things better for the hobby than what it was 20-30 years ago, I believe so. Is it perfect or nearly perfect, no, as we will never remove the human element, the subjectivity and potential for errors that go with it.


And This +1 I Sa.. I Say... very well stated
Post 36 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
What happened to the OP here?
Post 37 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
He restored on up outta here!
Post 38 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
We're in the steroid era of comic collecting. Pressing and dry cleaning are everywhere and nearly impossible to detect, given the boost it had given to the comic industry everyone is going to look the other way or be in denial until there's a way to definitively detect it...and if that does ever happen look out! May not be good for the industry as a whole given how prevalent it likely is. Chaos and madness may ensue.
Post 39 IP   flag post
Collector Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Dry cleaning should be considered exactly that. "Dry". No chemicals. No solvents. No anything. Just kleenex or a dust cloth or other methods not mentioned in this thread due to forum rules. Cleaning brings the book back to a previous state.

You see, this is part of the problem. "Dry" does not mean "with no liquids;" it means, "with no water." The grading companies often use the seemingly more precise term, "non-aqueous" cleaning, but "aqueous" also technically refers to water rather than liquid. And so it is not clear.

Yet many people make the mistake of conflating "water" with "liquid." Water is only one of many forms of liquid. And so it is not clear if the grading companies consider using a liquid, non-water solvent to clean a comic "restoration." Currently, I think the answer is: sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. (Or can't.)

Someone above said that it's restoration anytime you add something. I think it is restoration anytime you take away something, such as trimming, but adding (such as color touch or leaf casting) is only sometimes called restoration. However, I agree that removing rust should be considered either restoration or conservation, because you are taking away part of the comic. (Rust is an oxidation process where the metal reacts with the oxygen in the air. Therefore, if you take away the rust, you are removing a layer of the staple's metal.)

I really don't like the idea of bleaching a comic to make it look better, especially since most forms of bleaching don't improving the paper at all. (And can, in fact, be destructive.) But I *do* like the idea of using certain solvents to remove some of the browning and acids in the paper, to get the paper back to a healthier state. I know that is considered restoration, but I don't think it should be. (And probably can't be detected sometimes. But I don't know enough about it.)
Post 40 IP   flag post
Collector VCBE private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Pressing, cleaning staples, or dry cleaning a book is not restoration.

Restoration is adding something that was missing, to bring a book back to it’s original state. Neither of the above does this.

Solvent cleaning is on the border of that line but the general consensus is restoration.


I can see this point and agree with it...
Post 41 IP   flag post
Collector Redshade private msg quote post Address this user
I remember seeing ads by restoration companies in the 80s in Comic Buyers Guide and Overstreet which showed before and after pictures of restored comics where the original books had massive pieces out of the spines and covers.

The after pictures showed "perfect" comics. When a comic is missing an inch of its spine and half of its back cover what is it that is actually used to replace the missing pieces? Photocopies? Forged art?

Even were I a zillionaire and could afford to buy these Frankenstein comics I wouldn't. They are but artificial constructs and whoever purchases such is, in my view, going to be disappointed in the long run.
Post 42 IP   flag post
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