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What is/not should be considered Restoration5615

Collector VCBE private msg quote post Address this user
In my opinion Pressing should be considered restoration as it changes the books condition. But a couple companies made a business for it and are making $$$. What shouldn't be considered restoration is cleaning staples. The are still "ORIGINAL" to the book and rust will run through the comic itself. It's like having a vintage car and you clean the rims because they are dirty or getting rust and is that consider that restoration? Of course not!!!
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Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
I like the way you think
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
Do you consider ironing your clothes restoration?
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Collector VCBE private msg quote post Address this user
It RESTORES it to what it DID look like, it's not wiping something clean... But these are very different products can't compare these two, one is something you wear and will wear out in time unlike COLLECTIBLES... Nice try though as I can tell you had things pressed...
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
It's so pervasive in the hobby now, I just accept it.
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Collector VCBE private msg quote post Address this user
Well one is MEANT to get wrinkled and the other is not... To me it's cheating had a friend get a 7.5 because it was crinkled up, got it pressed came back 9.0... It's just not right... I don't mind it but it should say that it was pressed...
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Collector esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
@VCBE - As you might guess, this is a very touchy subject. I have been submitting unpressed books for about three years now. The only time I might have used pressing is a few years back when I had two comics signed by Stan Lee and the facilitator talked me into having both comics fast passed and pressed so that I would have them back by Christmas. That was around the time CBCS was having some issues with their approved presser, and to make a long story short, I didn’t get my books back before Christmas and have no idea if they were even pressed (if they were pressed, they were poorly pressed as they received grades at least one full grade below what I expected). Since then I have shied away from pressing. However, seeing the results that people are getting from pressing has got me thinking that I would be stupid not to consider it. Just look at the difference in prices between 9.4’s, 9.6’s, and 9.8’s.
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Collector Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
@VCBE Do you consider cleaning the book (dry or solvent) to be restoration?
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Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
@VCBE I have to disagree with you. I feel cleaning up rusty staples is more like restoration compared to pressing a book flat.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCBE
It RESTORES it to what it DID look like, it's not wiping something clean... But these are very different products can't compare these two


Seems as fair a comparison as rims :shrug:

Do you feel waxing a car should be restoration? Waxing isn't wiping the car clean. It's meant to restore it "to what it DID look like".

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCBE
... Nice try though as I can tell you had things pressed...


I doubt Foghorn_Sam was trying to be sneaky about anything.

But I completely agree pressing history should follow a book. I've often feared that for every honest pressing 'trainee' out there, how many novices release their experiments to the market without disclosure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
@VCBE I have to disagree with you. I feel cleaning up rusty staples is more like restoration compared to pressing a book flat.


And to touch on this; theoretically, pressing to some degree can happen naturally and unintentionally in the wild, and under the right conditions. Would someone be able to tell the difference if a book was pressed in a press or at the bottom of a stack of comics? Should the comic at the bottom of the stack be hit for restoration?
I don't think the same can be said about staples being "naturally" cleaned in the wild.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
But yes, I also think it's technically restoration- but of a very minor degree. I'm okay with it BEING DONE BY TRAINED individuals, and again, feel it should be recorded history.

But how to do that accurately in a world full of presses?
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Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
First off, in the interest of full disclosure, let me say that I'm a comic collector not a comic dealer (although I have sold some comics and am getting ready to sell some more keys soon) and I've never submitted a comic for pressing or cleaning or restoration or anything else except grading with the "guys across the street" in the past.

I believe the grading companies don't consider pressing to be restoration simply because their graders cannot detect it. If they do not press it themselves or know for a fact that the comic has been pressed, how are they going to know? So, the easiest solution for them (and the most lucrative - and therefore, probably the most popular - solution for comic dealers) is simply to not consider pressing to be restoration.

As for me? The Webster Dictionary definition of "restoration" is "a bringing back to a former position or condition." Based on that definition, my opinion is that both pressing and staple cleaning are restoration because both acts modify some aspect of the comic in its current condition to make it appear closer to its assumed original condition. I know that probably will not be a popular opinion around here, but it is what it is.
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Collector MR_SigS private msg quote post Address this user
I think more people are concerned with how considering pressing as restoration may affect value or grade. Since it does not (if done correctly), then call it restoration. Seems like a fair trade.
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Collector Despain private msg quote post Address this user
@VCBE I have wondered what kind of effect adding moisture, heat, and pressure will have on the comics' paper long term--especially older books. I've also wondered when the moisture is added if it would cause staples to rust somewhere down the road.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
I feel cleaning up rusty staples is more like restoration compared to pressing a book flat.


This. +1
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
I press without moisture, haven’t seemed to need it.
Nothing worse than a spine rolled book and nothing better than a press to fix it.
Call it what you will, but I call it an improvement to every book I keep. And good clean fun. You can press with just a stack of heavy books too, so how can you tell, if you care?
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I do believe however if you are going to sell a book and you know it was cleaned and pressed you should disclose as such.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
I used to stack shortboxes full of comics on top of a comic before sending off to CBCS for grading. Shockingly, I've gotten some 9.8s this way, too.




This book sat underneath 2 shortboxes for 1 month. I bought it from Dynamic Forces as a "damaged copy" that was not a perfect condition book due to "dings or blunted corners" according to the Dynamic Forces website. Sure enough, when I got it it had 1 spine ding.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Pressing, cleaning staples, or dry cleaning a book is not restoration.

Restoration is adding something that was missing, to bring a book back to it’s original state. Neither of the above does this.

Solvent cleaning is on the border of that line but the general consensus is restoration.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Pressing, cleaning staples, or dry cleaning a book is not restoration.

Restoration is adding something that was missing, to bring a book back to it’s original state. Neither of the above does this.

Solvent cleaning is on the border of that line but the general consensus is restoration.


Out of curiosity, how do you define "dry cleaning"?

I go by the wikipedia definition as it pertains to clothes... "Dry cleaning is any cleaning process for clothing and textiles using a chemical solvent other than water."
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Dry cleaning should be considered exactly that. "Dry". No chemicals. No solvents. No anything. Just kleenex or a dust cloth or other methods not mentioned in this thread due to forum rules. Cleaning brings the book back to a previous state.
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Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Pressing, cleaning staples, or dry cleaning a book is not restoration.

Restoration is adding something that was missing, to bring a book back to it’s original state. Neither of the above does this.

Solvent cleaning is on the border of that line but the general consensus is restoration.
How would the staples be cleaned? I would think it would require a solvent or something abrasive to get rust or oxidation off of the staples.
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Collector Rafel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCBE
It RESTORES it to what it DID look like, it's not wiping something clean... But these are very different products can't compare these two, one is something you wear and will wear out in time unlike COLLECTIBLES... Nice try though as I can tell you had things pressed...


So if you took a heavy book, put it on top of a comic book to flatten it out would you say that was "restoration" and if I did it to more than one comic book (and it worked) would I be a Professional Restorer?
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Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SigS
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCBE
It RESTORES it to what it DID look like, it's not wiping something clean... But these are very different products can't compare these two


Seems as fair a comparison as rims :shrug:

Do you feel waxing a car should be restoration? Waxing isn't wiping the car clean. It's meant to restore it "to what it DID look like".

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCBE
... Nice try though as I can tell you had things pressed...


I doubt Foghorn_Sam was trying to trying to be sneaky about anything.

But I completely agree pressing history should follow a book. I've often feared that for every honest pressing 'trainee' out there, how many novices release their experiments to the market without disclosure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
@VCBE I have to disagree with you. I feel cleaning up rusty staples is more like restoration compared to pressing a book flat.


And to touch on this; theoretically, pressing to some degree can happen naturally in the wild, and under the right conditions. Would someone be able to tell the difference if a book was pressed in a press or at the bottom of a stack of comics? Should the comic at the bottom of the stack be hit for restoration?
I don't think the same can be said about staples being "naturally" cleaned in the wild.
I agree with the example of books stacked up. I have also overstuffed books in my boxes in the past and some of the books were real tight and flat when taking them out. They almost had a pressed look to them.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Dry cleaning should be considered exactly that. "Dry". No chemicals. No solvents. No anything. Just kleenex or a dust cloth or other methods not mentioned in this thread due to forum rules. Cleaning brings the book back to a previous state.


I guess this is another area where comic collectors take standard words in the human vocabulary and redefine what they mean.

Comics are evidently minted.
The word "Good" is a unpopular and bad condition.
"Dry Cleaning" is no longer a chemical solvent form of cleaning as it has been for decades.
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COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Hmm I don't think I like where this thread is going. I will not discuss my methods here.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Pressing, cleaning staples, or dry cleaning a book is not restoration.

Restoration is adding something that was missing, to bring a book back to it’s original state. Neither of the above does this.

Solvent cleaning is on the border of that line but the general consensus is restoration.
How would the staples be cleaned? I would think it would require a solvent or something abrasive to get rust or oxidation off of the staples.


Depends how bad they are. Regardless, it’s removing material, not adding material.

Conservation is a good thing.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptainmyke
Dry cleaning should be considered exactly that. "Dry". No chemicals. No solvents. No anything. Just kleenex or a dust cloth or other methods not mentioned in this thread due to forum rules. Cleaning brings the book back to a previous state.


I guess this is another area where comic collectors take standard words in the human vocabulary and redefine what they mean.

Comics are evidently minted.
The word "Good" is a unpopular and bad condition.
"Dry Cleaning" is no longer a chemical solvent form of cleaning as it has been for decades. I guess you use a feather duster now.

I dont use a feather duster like kaptainmyke. This is my weapon of choice for cleaning books.



Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer

I dont use a feather duster like kaptainmyke. This is my weapon of choice for cleaning books.





I'm detecting dry humor in that post.
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Collector BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer

I dont use a feather duster like kaptainmyke. This is my weapon of choice for cleaning books.





I'm detecting dry humor in that post.
Yes, a little "dry" humor. We would hope it is not "wet" humor. Lol
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