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Changes to ASP: AWs Please read5469

Collector IntoAnother private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
I have a few questions, but I will just email as Steve asked. But in there are a few things I'd comment on just regarding the opening post and some responses....

It is likely an omission, but the opening post doesn't actually say how long personal use AW's have to turn in their books to CBCS.

Some commenting here should keep in mind that CGC has nothing like a "personal Authorized Witness". Even CGC signature facilitators can't witness their own books. And CGC facilitators have pretty high minimums. So the Personal AW program is rare opportunity for "regular folks" to have an opportunity to participate in the signature witnessing field. It seems unreasonable to complain about that which is truly a gift and probably needed some tightening up. I do wish the 10 book limit was 1/2 that, but let's be reasonable. The number of signed books turned into CBCS has to be worth the time it took to review someone's application and at least the first time doing a background check.


As easily as one can see the section in bold above as a positive I personally see it as something that is leaving the window wide open for corruption and should not exist.

I’m actually amazed it’s allowed.

There’s just far too much money to be made and unfortunately way too many scumbags in the hobby for this to be allowed. I truly hope it is discontinued one day.
Post 26 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
likely an omission, but the opening post doesn't actually say how long personal use AW's have to turn in their books to CBC


Zero. End of event, cut off. No bringng them home to copy a few hundred extras for couple days allowed lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
All books have to be submitted at the end of the signing event
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
@shrewbeer Well, obviously you can't submit books the end of the signing event if there is no official CBCS presence. I'm sure that CBCS intends for personal AW's and Facilitators alike to have enough time to rebag the books, wrap, properly package and take to the shipping service.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
Personal Use / Authorized Witnesses must apply for AW status a least two weeks prior to the signing event. CBCS will be conducting background checks on applicants, which must be completed prior to approval.

· Personal Use AWs are not allowed to witness other people’s books and have to submit at least 10 books per event.

· Personal Use AWs are not allowed to have their books travel to other events to add signatures, unless the additional signatures are handled by a Facilitator, with proper documentation (multi-event forms).

· All books have to be submitted at the end of the signing event, or given to a facilitator to add signatures. Mail in submissions have to be postmarked within 2 weeks of the signing and/or sketch event. International AWs have 1 month to submit their signed books to a facilitator or CBCS (due to customs sometimes holding packages for several days or weeks).
@IronMan @shrewbeer From the original post. I bolded the line about mail in submission. I assume this would be for a show where CBCS has no presence.
Post 29 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
This should make life interesting for facilitators. I just completed s large submission. After paying two facilitators upfront to help get me some of the signatures I had a very tough time getting completed paperwork in a timely manner. I would hate to imagine shelling out a large sum for an artist like Dell'Otto or Stan Lee only to have my submission denied due to a delay or error caused by someone else.

The latest changes are sure to separate the men from the boys.
Post 30 IP   flag post


COLLECTOR BigRig private msg quote post Address this user
Why is there a fee for mailing in window bags?
Post 31 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRig
Why is there a fee for mailing in window bags?


Without being in a proper bag and board, comics risk being damaged, and someone from the office has to rebag/board any comics that are in window bags. The same fee would go to orders that are submitted raw, as in NOT having a bag/board.
Post 32 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
To clarify something that appears to be misunderstood...
You can still get less than 10 books signed and submitted by going to the CBCS booth and having a witness go with you when they are signed. There is no change for this.
Post 33 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR BigRig private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRig
Why is there a fee for mailing in window bags?


Without being in a proper bag and board, comics risk being damaged, and someone from the office has to rebag/board any comics that are in window bags. The same fee would go to orders that are submitted raw, as in NOT having a bag/board.


Please tell me no one has ever submitted a book raw just why?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
To clarify something that appears to be misunderstood...
You can still get less than 10 books signed and submitted by going to the CBCS booth and having a witness go with you when they are signed. There is no change for this.


That's good to know but you would have to be at every con to take advantage of that.


Post 34 IP   flag post
Collector HammitChris private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
To clarify something that appears to be misunderstood...
You can still get less than 10 books signed and submitted by going to the CBCS booth and having a witness go with you when they are signed. There is no change for this.


Not if CBCS isn’t at your con. This will cause issues at many of them because CBCS isn’t at all of the cons and neither are facilitators. I understand wanting to improve the process, but this punishes the honest, small collectors like myself. The 10 book requirement is a bit excessive IMO.
Post 35 IP   flag post
Collector LotsaSequel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
To clarify something that appears to be misunderstood...
You can still get less than 10 books signed and submitted by going to the CBCS booth and having a witness go with you when they are signed. There is no change for this.


That is assuming CBCS is on site for that specific convention. Otherwise we're at the mercy of a facilitator IF there is one and their fees on top of the signature fees and grading fees. This 10day limitation for submission also ties our hands when it comes to pressing books before submitting. It basically forces us to use CBCS pressing if we want a book pressed which currently would put us at a 6 month TAT if I'm not mistaken. Pretty disappointing. My biggest issue is the 10 book limit. Personally makes no sense to me and it seems like it doesn't make sense to many others either.
Post 36 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
Personal Use / Authorized Witnesses must apply for AW status a least two weeks prior to the signing event. CBCS will be conducting background checks on applicants, which must be completed prior to approval.

· Personal Use AWs are not allowed to witness other people’s books and have to submit at least 10 books per event.

· Personal Use AWs are not allowed to have their books travel to other events to add signatures, unless the additional signatures are handled by a Facilitator, with proper documentation (multi-event forms).

· All books have to be submitted at the end of the signing event, or given to a facilitator to add signatures. Mail in submissions have to be postmarked within 2 weeks of the signing and/or sketch event. International AWs have 1 month to submit their signed books to a facilitator or CBCS (due to customs sometimes holding packages for several days or weeks).
@IronMan @shrewbeer From the original post. I bolded the line about mail in submission. I assume this would be for a show where CBCS has no presence.


Thank you for posting the explanation and highlighting . I seemed to have missed that
Post 37 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRig
Please tell me no one has ever submitted a book raw just why?!


Yep.
Post 38 IP   flag post
CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotsaSequel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
To clarify something that appears to be misunderstood...
You can still get less than 10 books signed and submitted by going to the CBCS booth and having a witness go with you when they are signed. There is no change for this.


That is assuming CBCS is on site for that specific convention. Otherwise we're at the mercy of a facilitator IF there is one and their fees on top of the signature fees and grading fees. This 10day limitation for submission also ties our hands when it comes to pressing books before submitting. It basically forces us to use CBCS pressing if we want a book pressed which currently would put us at a 6 month TAT if I'm not mistaken. Pretty disappointing. My biggest issue is the 10 book limit. Personally makes no sense to me and it seems like it doesn't make sense to many others either.


I'm sure we will address that when it happens. I don't see the need to complain about something that hasn't happened yet.

CBCS had a huge convention schedule last year. I know there are going to be adjustments this year. We don't have all the details yet, so let's see what happens.
Post 39 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotsaSequel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveRicketts
To clarify something that appears to be misunderstood...
You can still get less than 10 books signed and submitted by going to the CBCS booth and having a witness go with you when they are signed. There is no change for this.


That is assuming CBCS is on site for that specific convention. Otherwise we're at the mercy of a facilitator IF there is one and their fees on top of the signature fees and grading fees. This 10day limitation for submission also ties our hands when it comes to pressing books before submitting. It basically forces us to use CBCS pressing if we want a book pressed which currently would put us at a 6 month TAT if I'm not mistaken. Pretty disappointing. My biggest issue is the 10 book limit. Personally makes no sense to me and it seems like it doesn't make sense to many others either.


I'm sure we will address that when it happens. I don't see the need to complain about something that hasn't happened yet.

CBCS had a huge convention schedule last year. I know there are going to be adjustments this year. We don't have all the details yet, so let's see what happens.



Show smaller cons in Canada some love please - just sayin!!
Post 40 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKomics
Show smaller cons in Canada some love please - just sayin!!


I blame your metric system for scaring them off.
Post 41 IP   flag post
CBCS spaulus private msg quote post Address this user
I wanted to clarify something regarding the new rules for the ASP. Based on the emails I’m receiving some people are thinking that they have to submit a minimum of 10 books to have them yellow labeled. That is not the case as customers wanting yellow label books can still walk up to the CBCS booth with just one book, ask for a witness and get it signed and submitted.
Post 42 IP   flag post
Collector HammitChris private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaulus
I wanted to clarify something regarding the new rules for the ASP. Based on the emails I’m receiving some people are thinking that they have to submit a minimum of 10 books to have them yellow labeled. That is not the case as customers wanting yellow label books can still walk up to the CBCS booth with just one book, ask for a witness and get it signed and submitted.


They can't if you all aren't at the con. I've never seen CBCS at Knoxville Comic Con here in Tennessee. With all due respect, this rule is punishing the honest collectors who attend many of these smaller cons while fattening the wallets of the facilitators. Thats not right.
Post 43 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKomics
Show smaller cons in Canada some love please - just sayin!!


I blame your metric system for scaring them off.



Wait...how many hogs heads to the rod again???
Post 44 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntoAnother
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
I have a few questions, but I will just email as Steve asked. But in there are a few things I'd comment on just regarding the opening post and some responses....

It is likely an omission, but the opening post doesn't actually say how long personal use AW's have to turn in their books to CBCS.

Some commenting here should keep in mind that CGC has nothing like a "personal Authorized Witness". Even CGC signature facilitators can't witness their own books. And CGC facilitators have pretty high minimums. So the Personal AW program is rare opportunity for "regular folks" to have an opportunity to participate in the signature witnessing field. It seems unreasonable to complain about that which is truly a gift and probably needed some tightening up. I do wish the 10 book limit was 1/2 that, but let's be reasonable. The number of signed books turned into CBCS has to be worth the time it took to review someone's application and at least the first time doing a background check.


As easily as one can see the section in bold above as a positive I personally see it as something that is leaving the window wide open for corruption and should not exist.

I’m actually amazed it’s allowed.

There’s just far too much money to be made and unfortunately way too many scumbags in the hobby for this to be allowed. I truly hope it is discontinued one day.


This subject has been debated many times before. Here, Facebook, who knows where else. You are certainly not alone in your opinion. I respect your opinion and acknowledge there exists potential for abuse. But I don't share this opinion. The potential isn't present just for personal AW's. The Fraud potential is there for those at the facilitator level as well. In fact, I would argue the potential is higher at the Facilitator level because they are dealing with thousands of books and hundreds of creators/celebrities. There could be real money on the table given the volume.

This is the purpose of background checks and event by event approval. It is a grading company (CBCS) being responsive to concerns expressed by creators/celebrities and still trying to be a lot more collector oriented than the big outfit across the street.

At some level you have to conclude that while there are "scumbags" in the hobby, there are lot more honest and trustworthy people. Keeping signatures 100% restricted to a handful of people that make a living doing it just takes away from the fun and adds to the costs.
Post 45 IP   flag post
Collector fivestar private msg quote post Address this user
Posted to FB, but figured I'd pop over here too...

What if... and just thinking "out loud" so could use tweaking, but definitely seems to address current AW concerns better while not cutting out the little guys (and still pushing some extra business to the larger facilitators to reward them for their business volume and -- in theory -- exceptional adherence to the program)

Go ahead and Tier the AWs, but do it with at least 1 more level.

Collector AW - Apply for each event (or annual application with $5 fee) and cannot witness for anyone else. MAXIMUM submission of 10 comics per event. (Perhaps limit on duplicate issue submissions to 2-3 as well). Basically this level allows true collectors to still participate in getting their collection yellow labeled.

Commissioned AW - This could be an annual commission ($10) or a 3 year commission ($25) similar to how most states do their Notary Publics (perhaps increase trust of the system by actively using Notaries such as myself) and/or includes that background check you mentioned. This level would not have minimums, COULD witness for others, COULD do multi-events THEY witness, Multi-Events needing to be sent to another AW must go to a Facilitator. Could more easily build their history towards becoming a facilitator this way. Maybe put a MAXIMUM of 20-30 per event on this tier as well (or whatever makes sense based on the minimums for facilitators)

Facilitators - Same as already listed in the new plan. Commission of 3-5 years as long as hitting minimums etc.

Might be worth requiring Commissioned/Facilitator levels to also submit a signed acknowledgement from the creator (or their rep) that they are aware they are signing for an AW and that form must be included with the submissions along with invoice
Post 46 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
@fivestar some interesting suggestions here.

I'm not sure how it would benefit a grading company to have a maximum number of submissions per event. Grading companies MAKE money grading books. So the more the merrier. But perhaps a fee associated with applying to be an AW at an event could partially offset the costs of employee time associated with CBCS reviewing applications and doing background checks. With some of the costs offset with an application fee, perhaps the minimum number of books submitted could be reduced.

I see potential problems with the last suggestion. Celebrities and creators that have lines or that are getting paid well for their signature might not want yet more things to sign (for free) and the people waiting in line might not like having to wait longer still. But otherwise some creative thinking here.
Post 47 IP   flag post
Collector fivestar private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
@fivestar some interesting suggestions here.

I'm not sure how it would benefit a grading company to have a maximum number of submissions per event. Grading companies MAKE money grading books. So the more the merrier.


I only suggest maximums to keep people from abusing the lower 2 tiers -- especially the Collector level. If you're exceeding those numbers it encourages you to take steps to move to the next tier. I doubt there are that many instances where a true collector, getting signatures for their own collection, will need to submit many more than 10 books at a time. In case they were, they'd need to get someone from one of the other tiers to help with the books exceeding the limit.
Post 48 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
@fivestar your maximum for self-witnessing is a great idea. Minimums only encourage forgery.
Post 49 IP   flag post
Collector comicsforme private msg quote post Address this user
It seems to me the only one making money here is the stores and the ones selling on ebay.The real collecters like me that dont abuse the system are being @$%$@.I get mabey 3 to 6 comics signed a year.Who is it that is really abusing the system?What about cbcs for not keeping track of all AW.I fill paper work every time when i go to shows,does every one else,no.😅Mark.I will know come up cheaper dealing with cgc if this keeps up.
Post 50 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR JLS_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
How about a searchable Facilitator database with geography, services and reviews? Since many of us will now need to exclusively utilize their services, I'd like a convenient way to access them.
Post 51 IP   flag post
Collector bige31 private msg quote post Address this user
@JLS_Comics i think that is a great idea. To me that’s the hardiest part with me is finding someone that’s going to a particular show that I want a signature from. VS me sending it to someone and they hold it forever because I’m not sure when that person is rolling through.
Post 52 IP   flag post
Collector obiwan1971 private msg quote post Address this user
If anyone need a falicatator I attend 12-15 shows per year. There are people on forum as well as FB that have used me and know how professional I am. I do signings with both celebrities and artist. I have a big signing coming up in April that I will be announcing next week. So if I can help just reach out
Post 53 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
@comicsforme What makes you the judge of who is or who isn't a real collector?
Post 54 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR drchaos private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS_Comics
How about a searchable Facilitator database with geography, services and reviews? Since many of us will now need to exclusively utilize their services, I'd like a convenient way to access them.
There is a Facebook group I joined recently where people post asking for a facilitator or notifying the group that one is available for certain shows.

I only joined the group recently so U can't speak to quality yet but it does exist.
Post 55 IP   flag post
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