CGC unrestored to CBCS restored!5447
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Pics or it didn’t happen. | ||
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TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by JAMESCIf it makes a difference... books don't get looked over less closely based on where turnaround times are. There are a number of things that indicate cleaning having been done, it could have possibly stripped some of the gloss, bleached the cover to some degree, left a chemical residue behind etc. The trickiest part of detecting restoration is knowing what you're looking for/at. There are restoration methods that to can be easily missed even by someone with experience. We're lucky enough to have not only Borock around for these instances but West as well. If the book you sent is a big SA key I can guarantee it was looked over by both of them. |
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| lol..@tim...I was just being a little funny as it's a running joke with me for the last few years. I have nothing but respect for these companies and it is not an easy job breaking into this market. Making everyone happy is impossible. Regarding CBCS, I made the switch a couple years ago and haven't looked back. Its a much stronger, more reputable company hands down. However, on a side note, I've had multiple conversations with graders as I've come across them over the years and they all say the same thing...when the s**t hits the fan and they're slammed and working crazy hours with the cons..they can't even think straight. Their minds are wiped and come Friday at 5, they're just trying to get through the day. It is not the same QA that is received on Monday. It can't be...we're only human . Its not a dig brother...it's just the way it is - especially when staffing numbers are low. Things get missed ....even the most impressive fortune 100 company is going to make mistakes in various departments...a good company steps up to the plate when they do - which is why I switched to CBCS in the first place. No place Id rather be |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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and btw...@jamesc....no point in disclosing the book...but if its as nice a book as it sounds, I think they're probably going to spot it running through again (at least this year).They probably already read this, looked up your account...and put your pic up with a pic of the book and a BOLO  If it's not a flip, just hang on to it and see where this grading thing goes in the next few years. Maybe they ease up on cleaning..christ! Im still waiting for water stains, glue and color touch to be a non factor so i can resubmit my keys |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by WatcherI can assure you 100% that conventions won't play a part in this with CBCS going forward. Some structural changes have been made to the organization and the fine folks grading your books will be at the office doing just that. I'll be the one out on the convention trail, along with some of our AWs and occasionally Mark Roman and Steve Paulus. Although once in awhile they might even let Borock out of the office. Overall though the graders will be able to focus on grading. |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @tim...I was aware that they made some significant changes to better manage staff. Its all a learning curve and they're riding theirs pretty fast. So, theres no doubt in my mind that guys like Roman and Paulus are star players. I love those guys and have great respect for them. This is why I said a running joke "the last couple of years"...1) it was meant to be light hearted because the variance is so small its irrelevant and 2) it was in the middle of growing pains and expected . But I appreciate your feedback brother ...you don't have to sell me...I'm already sold |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's a tough restoration to detect, but it’sgreat that it seems at least CBCS is catching on to the latest trend. Yes, this is becoming a trend: Lately I have been hearing quite a few reports of folks cleaning their books with liquid solutions. One guy even had the balls (or idiocy) to call it a "liquid dry cleaning solution". Really? A liquid that is dry? 'tis magic! I know of several pressers who are now doing it, even after being advised that it IS restoration. @RRO had it right looking to the presser first. I'm in a few different groups where pressing is discussed, and pressers are multiplying like rabbits these days. Understandably, folks are looking to get the best results possible, and liquid solutions are a big shortcut to that. Be careful who you use nowadays people; some pressers are getting great results that may end up in a restored label. PS. @Watcher @JAMESC it absolutely SHOULD be disclosed. If you were to crack it and sell it, or crack it and re sub for a regular label. Regardless there is a history to that book that any buyer has the moral right to know about. If they ever submit it for grading through CBCS with the intent to sell, it will come back restored and they will have effectively been ripped off. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @shrewbeer...I know you're right ...I do. It just seems unjust when the entire premise of buying a CGC slab (or any graded book) is to alleviate any chance of misrepresentation or unknown flaw...hence the premium of a slabbed 9.6 vs a raw 9.6. So...what is the right answer? @jamesc buys a mega key slabbed blue for a premium because if he's going to invest huge dollars he want to be at peace with the true value of the book so when he goes and spends even more money to have it signed and re-slabbed, he is comfortable in the knowledge that it is true at face value. Now..it comes back restored because the better company picked up on it. it's value is diminished and there is no recourse ? Normally, you would go to company A and say "hey...you guys screwed up and this is what you get paid to do..it is your sole purpose...alleviate the concerns of the untrained eye for a fee...so make it right and either buy this book back for what I paid or absorb the difference in FMV" but...there is no chain of evidence so @jamesc is sadly porked on a huge book...becasue he can't prove the book wasn't tampered with after it was removed from the original slab. This is my only concern with such a new industry..the bugs haven't been swept and it shouldn't be the little guy that eats the mistake..it should be the mega company with insurance that eats the claim and works harder next time to better itself ...its a shame |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Watcher excellent point. The "guarantee" company should own the mistake, and the money lost due to it. The way around that, is never crack a slab outside of the realm of proof. IE, send it directly to CBCS for press and grade. Then there can be recourse, there is enough proof of zero tampering. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| agreed...so was the slab cracked in front of a CBCS witness and never left the arm of CBCS? If so, maybe they can back the Op's claim with CGC...but it sounds like it was sent off site to get pressed and cleaned | ||
| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hence my trepidation with pressing and cleaning. I have identified dozens (okay, probably 100’s) of books that I own that I think would benefit from a P&C. There are moderns that have one or two minor wrinkles or light bends on covers that I know will drop them below 9.8’s and probably below 9.6’s or more. Should those get a “light” press, if such a thing exists, or is it not worth it when you count the cost of pressing and shipping and your time invested too? And I have some raw SA books that might get a better grade if they were pressed and cleaned (many of those white back covers are not so spotless). I don’t even want to think about the CPR candidates! So far I have been avoiding pressing (and probably sacrificing a few 9.8’s) and just trying to submit the best-looking comics that I own. With the money not spent on pressing, I get to submit more comics for grading. Everything is a trade-off. | ||
| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @esaravo...agreed..when its a hobby. But once you start getting into 30k+ books like this one seems to be...it's a business and a serious investment. Regulations apply in every aspect of building portfolios and people/corporations are held accountable when they mess up. This OP should just sit and take it hard? The only unknown (relevant to his accountability) is "did this press guy use a solvent and is claiming otherwise" ?. Now it would fall to these two guys to hash out ...both grading companies did their job. It's certainly a very hard lesson to swallow. 30k is about the value of my entire collection and some people work 40hrs a wk and clear that in a year. Its a serious f*** up. If this were a book of mine - worth what it seems to be worth - and I was confident CGC dropped the ball and not the guy that cleaned it....I would track down the rep that witnessed the sig...ask him to submit its witness back to CGC instead of CBCS...resubmit the book un-slabbed and hope they do exactly what they did the first time..but with a yellow label. 6 months and another couple hundred would be worth the chance...instead of trying to sneak it in CBCS (who simply did their job). it's not like its a 500k print run of xmen1 vol.2...I'm sure the guy is going to remember the book and it shouldn't matter if its a day later or a yr later...if the guy remembers it and its a 1 in a million book then honor it..or at least walk up with him to the same artists and ask if it's their sig...yes? great! submit it please |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
 I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I know what/who you are talking about. I could not believe some of what I read. There should never been any sort of solution, liquid or chemical anywhere near a comic book. Period. |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkga private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Was the book signed before or after the crack? | ||
| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| We need to see the book. Both cgc label before and cbcs label after. There's too many unknowns here at this point. Something does not add up. | ||
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Deleted my comments because I am a coward. | ||
| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| aw come on brah show us what u got | ||
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Watcher private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Guessing hulk 1 8.0 or a ASM1 9.2 |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Watcher No doubt, i'm not planning to do anything with the book soon |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kaptainmyke Haha, I'm not trying to be dramatic or anything. I just don't want my book out there until I figure out what to do. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkgaone was signed before (interior) and one was signed after (exterior) |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Again, thank you all for the input and opinions. I'm new to the forums and it's good to hear from all you fellow collectors. | ||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hmmmm... | ||
| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @JAMESC can we see pics of the book please. | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa It’s an X-Force #1 |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Pics or it didn’t happen | ||
| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user | |
@kaptainmyke I feel like this is fake story now.  no reason not to post pics. |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 "Forum Overlord" bah ha ha ha...
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JustThatGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If I had a book whic lost 20k or more in value o/n and I have disclosed that I have a couple of mid grade AF 15s don’t think I would show pictures either | ||
| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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I bought a meat grinder on amazon for $60 and it's changed my life.
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kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Why not? It's a photo. Not incriminating evidence of a crime or disclosing anyone's personal details. Heck, you could even blur out the slab#s if you really wanna feel warm and fuzzy about tit. | ||
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