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CBCS GradedCBCS Signature VSPComics Restoration and Conservation

CGC unrestored to CBCS restored!5447

Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
I purchased a Major SA Key grade 6.5 unrestored. I had it pressed and resubmitted it to CBCS for VSP (red label)(2 signatures). Both signatures came back Verified and grade remained 6.5 however it came back restored: cover cleaned!! It's my most valuable book so I'm super stressed out about it. has anyone experienced something similar? Is it worth submitting again?

Thank you guys!
Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
Do the notes say anything?? Dry cleaning is not considered restoration but if any chemicals got involved then your sunk
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector RRO private msg quote post Address this user
Damn, that bites! Have you talked to you presser yet?
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
While this is a painful thing for the owners of such books, it is not an unheard of thing. In the CGC forums across the street, you can find a number of stories of books going from blue to purple and purple to blue. I've seen it happen twice with clients books - although never cover cleaned. One was staples and the other a tiny bit of color touch.

I would suggest checking with who pressed the book and make sure they did not clean the cover with any solvents. No one that knows what they are doing would do so - but we don't know who you used.

It can sometimes be difficult to tell if the cover of a book was cleaned with solvents and sometimes it is easy. Your alternatives are essentially to get the book regraded or accept as is. You could send it back to CGC and see what they say. Or send it back to CBCS for another go.
Post 4 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
The presser I used is the same guy I've always used. never had a problem before; and of course I mentioned it to him anyway; he confirmed does not use any chemicals or solvents
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKomics
Do the notes say anything?? Dry cleaning is not considered restoration but if any chemicals got involved then your sunk


I have not yet, ...the system was down when I tried
Post 6 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
I don't think CGC would be satisfactory for you in regards to the authenticated signatures. So that suggestion probably is not for you.

I don't know anything about cleaning a book. But could having it cleaned possibly remove this books problem? I assume a proper cleaning is not detectable and also is not harmful to signatures?
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Great example of how dangerous this game is. You are gonna have to crack it out again to look close
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
ouch...maybe wait until its busy season and sneak it in again and hope it gets missed
Post 9 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher
ouch...maybe wait until its busy season and sneak it in again and hope it gets missed

I might just have to do that :/
Post 10 IP   flag post
Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
and on a more serious note...@conditionfreak has a reasonable question...not knowing anything about cleaning as well ...does the solvent diminish the integrity of the paper and that's what they saw...or does it leave a residue and maybe a proper cleaning would remove it?
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by doog
Great example of how dangerous this game is. You are gonna have to crack it out again to look close
Quote:
Originally Posted by doog
Great example of how dangerous this game is. You are gonna have to crack it out again to look close

Yeah no doubt. I’ve never had an issue before and the only time this happens is with my favorite book :/
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
@jamesc...since this is your best book...I really don't see the harm in quietly resubmitting. I don't think it's deceptive...you nor anyone you deal with cleaned the book improperly...you bought it under the pretense of being blue label and you paid accordingly.

These companies are always changing and tweaking policy (i.e.: tape)...and plenty of books with flaws get missed (just never mine)...you catch a grader on a monday morning fresh and its a 9.0...on Friday at 5pm mid con season and its a 9.2...

just the way it works..and it does happen that way sometimes...this is not a science but it's the best we have (and I like it so no jabs from the peanut gallery boys )...

so if a proper clean is not viable...no harm in resubmitting
Post 13 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR kaptainmyke private msg quote post Address this user
Are you kidding me? Are we not allowed to dry clean our books and get oils and dirt removed from the cover for better eye appeal? This is crazy! Nonsense!
Post 14 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
@JAMESC When you plan to sell it just gotta send it back to CGC for that Green label. If you are keeping it who cares.

But, CGC has been handing out a lot more "Conserved" labels these days for cleaning too.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher
and on a more serious note...@conditionfreak has a reasonable question...not knowing anything about cleaning as well ...does the solvent diminish the integrity of the paper and that's what they saw...or does it leave a residue and maybe a proper cleaning would remove it?


I have no idea what it is they saw. I just know the guy who presses/cleans my books does “dry cleaning only” with does not leave anything and does not count as restoration. He has done many books for me which always comes back with no issues. I’m thinking what they saw was from something prior?! I don’t know
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher
@jamesc...since this is your best book...I really don't see the harm in quietly resubmitting. I don't think it's deceptive...you nor anyone you deal with cleaned the book improperly...you bought it under the pretense of being blue label and you paid accordingly.

Yeah, you’re totally right

These companies are always changing and tweaking policy (i.e.: tape)...and plenty of books with flaws get missed (just never mine)...you catch a grader on a monday morning fresh and its a 9.0...on Friday at 5pm mid con season and its a 9.2...

just the way it works..and it does happen that way sometimes...this is not a science but it's the best we have (and I like it so no jabs from the peanut gallery boys )...

so if a proper clean is not viable...no harm in resubmitting
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for all the input guys!
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
What's the book?
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
Since the book was initially graded by CGC, wouldn't it have gone through their 4 grader process?... 3 graders and then the master grader. So that SHOULD mean 4 CGC graders gave it an unrestored label.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre_Coder
Since the book was initially graded by CGC, wouldn't it have gone through their 4 grader process?... 3 graders and then the master grader. So that SHOULD mean 4 CGC graders gave it an unrestored label.

Yes! That’s why I’m so shocked about the result
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector JAMESC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
What's the book?

I rather not say. But I own 2 mid grade unrestored AF15s and this SA book is more valuable than those
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
What's the book?

I rather not say. But I own 2 mid grade unrestored AF15s and this SA book is more valuable than those


#suspense
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
I've heard of instances where a press or dry cleaning have revealed initially unnoticed restoration.

It's a real punch in the gut when it's an especially valuable book.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
What's the book?

I rather not say. But I own 2 mid grade unrestored AF15s and this SA book is more valuable than those


Wow! Your disappointment is certainly understandable.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector KingNampa private msg quote post Address this user
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Post 26 IP   flag post
CBCS TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher
ouch...maybe wait until its busy season and sneak it in again and hope it gets missed

I might just have to do that :/
If it makes a difference... books don't get looked over less closely based on where turnaround times are.

There are a number of things that indicate cleaning having been done, it could have possibly stripped some of the gloss, bleached the cover to some degree, left a chemical residue behind etc. The trickiest part of detecting restoration is knowing what you're looking for/at. There are restoration methods that to can be easily missed even by someone with experience. We're lucky enough to have not only Borock around for these instances but West as well. If the book you sent is a big SA key I can guarantee it was looked over by both of them.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
lol..@tim...I was just being a little funny as it's a running joke with me for the last few years. I have nothing but respect for these companies and it is not an easy job breaking into this market. Making everyone happy is impossible. Regarding CBCS, I made the switch a couple years ago and haven't looked back. Its a much stronger, more reputable company hands down.

However, on a side note, I've had multiple conversations with graders as I've come across them over the years and they all say the same thing...when the s**t hits the fan and they're slammed and working crazy hours with the cons..they can't even think straight. Their minds are wiped and come Friday at 5, they're just trying to get through the day. It is not the same QA that is received on Monday. It can't be...we're only human . Its not a dig brother...it's just the way it is - especially when staffing numbers are low. Things get missed ....even the most impressive fortune 100 company is going to make mistakes in various departments...a good company steps up to the plate when they do - which is why I switched to CBCS in the first place. No place Id rather be
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
and btw...@jamesc....no point in disclosing the book...but if its as nice a book as it sounds, I think they're probably going to spot it running through again (at least this year).They probably already read this, looked up your account...and put your pic up with a pic of the book and a BOLO

If it's not a flip, just hang on to it and see where this grading thing goes in the next few years. Maybe they ease up on cleaning..christ! Im still waiting for water stains, glue and color touch to be a non factor so i can resubmit my keys
Post 29 IP   flag post
CBCS TimBildhauser private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher
lol..@tim...I was just being a little funny as it's a running joke with me for the last few years. I have nothing but respect for these companies and it is not an easy job breaking into this market. Making everyone happy is impossible. Regarding CBCS, I made the switch a couple years ago and haven't looked back. Its a much stronger, more reputable company hands down.

However, on a side note, I've had multiple conversations with graders as I've come across them over the years and they all say the same thing...when the s**t hits the fan and they're slammed and working crazy hours with the cons..they can't even think straight. Their minds are wiped and come Friday at 5, they're just trying to get through the day. It is not the same QA that is received on Monday. It can't be...we're only human . Its not a dig brother...it's just the way it is - especially when staffing numbers are low. Things get missed ....even the most impressive fortune 100 company is going to make mistakes in various departments...a good company steps up to the plate when they do - which is why I switched to CBCS in the first place. No place Id rather be
I can assure you 100% that conventions won't play a part in this with CBCS going forward. Some structural changes have been made to the organization and the fine folks grading your books will be at the office doing just that. I'll be the one out on the convention trail, along with some of our AWs and occasionally Mark Roman and Steve Paulus. Although once in awhile they might even let Borock out of the office. Overall though the graders will be able to focus on grading.
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