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Comics Restoration and ConservationComics Silver Age

Restored Books5316

Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
I have to say, the price differential between a restored and unrestored book is often tremendous.

And I must admit: restored books really don't bother me all that much, especially small amounts of color touch.

So if you have graded Silver Age books but they're restored -- especially Strange Tales, Tales of Suspense and Tales to Astonish -- send me a PM, and let's make a deal.

------

Is anyone else in my camp, or is this a camp of one?? And yes, I realize I'm in the minority on this one.
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Collector Drahcir private msg quote post Address this user
It doesn't bother me a ton - it depends what kind it is and how obvious it is, but overall I don't care.
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Collector anthonybischoff private msg quote post Address this user
I would say the main thing with restored books is that if you can’t get a unrestored book would be better but like getting a restored oldie wouldn’t be a bad thing for a high grade.
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Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
I have to say, the price differential between a restored and unrestored book is often tremendous.

And I must admit: restored books really don't bother me all that much, especially small amounts of color touch.

So if you have graded Silver Age books but they're restored -- especially Strange Tales, Tales of Suspense and Tales to Astonish -- send me a PM, and let's make a deal.

------

Is anyone else in my camp, or is this a camp of one?? And yes, I realize I'm in the minority on this one.


Agreed @jrs - the extreme price differential for often very minor touch-ups is puzzling. I suspect there is a psychological aspect at play. Even though the actual alteration is so minor, buyers see that purple label and it might as well be a red label. Maybe subconsciously some people think "ok, so we know it's been messed with - what else might be altered on this book?" If it doesn't bother you, great! That stretches your dollars and on many of these books you can actually professionally "undo" the restoration.
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Collector JustABitEvil private msg quote post Address this user
On a raw book I'd bite as long as it didnt look terrible, on a graded book I think I would pass altogether.
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COLLECTOR conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user
Bothers the heck out of me. I won't have one in my collection unless it is extremely rare.

I want my woman's body to be real, not augmented. Although it looks nice when enhanced or augmented. I know.

(being a little silly just for fun)
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Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
For me, what has always been missing for restored comics is an estimated grade of the book WITHOUT restoration. So, as an example, for a restored comic with a purple label grade of 9.0 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is the grade that the comic would have if it appeared as it currently does WITHOUT having been restored), I would also like to see a companion grade estimating what the book would grade at if the restoration could be removed.

So, something like 9.0 / 7.5 to show the apparent grade along with an estimated unrestored grade. That way, it's easier to know that you are really buying a very nice looking 7.5 and can adjust your target buying price accordingly.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, though. Hopefully, y'all can understand what I'm getting at.
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Collector Rafel private msg quote post Address this user
I have a few of restored books:

AVENGERS 7, graded 9.0
DETECTIVE COMICS 65, graded 5.5
Fantastic Four 31, graded 8.5
Fantastic Four 43, graded 9.2
USA COMICS 1, graded 9.0

I just bought YOUNG ALLIES 1 (graded at 2.5) which I want to have restored.

For me the good and bad is easy:
GOOD: You get to see and have what it looked like when it came out.
BAD: It's not all original.

Bottom line: It's mine.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak
Bothers the heck out of me. I won't have one in my collection unless it is extremely rare.

I want my woman's body to be real, not augmented. Although it looks nice when enhanced or augmented. I know.

(being a little silly just for fun)


I can relate. Spent 10k on the x-wife’s uhh things. I really didnt like them after. Much better unrestored, even if they werent looking as nice.

On the other hand, one can get a showcase #4 in 9.4 restored for ~12k. Unrestored it would be a million. I’ll take the restored one please.
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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWeeB1967
For me, what has always been missing for restored comics is an estimated grade of the book WITHOUT restoration. So, as an example, for a restored comic with a purple label grade of 9.0 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is the grade that the comic would have if it appeared as it currently does WITHOUT having been restored), I would also like to see a companion grade estimating what the book would grade at if the restoration could be removed.

So, something like 9.0 / 7.5 to show the apparent grade along with an estimated unrestored grade. That way, it's easier to know that you are really buying a very nice looking 7.5 and can adjust your target buying price accordingly.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, though. Hopefully, y'all can understand what I'm getting at.


Many times a restored 9.0 would get literally demolished by unrestoring to a 0.5. A competent restorer would not restore a book in the 7.5 range.
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Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
No restores for me please.
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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Has anyone watched someone do a burn out at a stop light, imagine throwing your restored comic under the tire when that is happening. Thats the likely outcome of unrestoring certain books.
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Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
In the case of a dot of added color, I can't imagine there would be much of a difference in grades (i.e., restored vs. unrestored) -- but possibly a tremendous difference in price.
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Collector Drahcir private msg quote post Address this user
For me it's really just context. If I know the book is restored then there's rarely an issue. If I'm looking at a restored book in the first place it's because I'm okay with that book in a restored grade. As long as I know what I'm getting and paying accordingly, I really don't care.
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Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
@Drahcir, agree wholeheartedly.
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Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
In the case of a dot of added color, I can't imagine there would be much of a difference in grades (i.e., restored vs. unrestored) -- but possibly a tremendous difference in price.


A golden age book with a dot of color touch is not restored by CGC standards.
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
@Homer That was just an example. My point is that, before I'd ever buy a restored book, I'd want to know how it would grade WITHOUT having been restored. If a 4.0 has been restored to an apparent 8.0, and IF I were to buy it (which I would not because I don't buy restored comics), I would want to pay no more than the average price for the 4.0 plus the cost of restoration. I wouldn't want to pay 8.0 (our 7.0 or even 6.0) prices.

In my opinion, that unrestored estimated grade is what is missing for restored comics.
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector Homer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWeeB1967
@Homer That was just an example. My point is that, before I'd ever buy a restored book, I'd want to know how it would grade WITHOUT having been restored. If a 4.0 has been restored to an apparent 8.0, and IF I were to buy it (which I would not because I don't buy restored comics), I would want to pay no more than the average price for the 4.0 plus the cost of restoration. I wouldn't want to pay 8.0 (our 7.0 or even 6.0) prices.

In my opinion, that unrestored estimated grade is what is missing for restored comics.


Correct, the grading companies do a sub standard job of describing the pre restoration grade. Any competent restorer would not restore an important golden age key that isn't falling apart poor to fair grade. A 4.0 is not a restoration candidate.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
unrestored whenever possible....restored ONLY if unrestored is impossible.
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Collector Rafel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
In the case of a dot of added color, I can't imagine there would be much of a difference in grades (i.e., restored vs. unrestored) -- but possibly a tremendous difference in price.


A golden age book with a dot of color touch is not restored by CGC standards.


That's another reason I DON'T buy CGC or have anything graded by CGC. Adding anything (color, pages, parts of pages or staples is considered RESTORATION.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Collector Redshade private msg quote post Address this user
For what it is worth I would NEVER buy a restored comic, especially an encapsulated one because there could be an awful lot going on under the plastic that you would not believe.

I can remember seeing ads in Comic Buyers Guide in the 80s by companies touting restoration with "before" and "after" pictures.

Yes it's very clever but it's "not a comic as we would understand it Jim".

If the blade of an axe is replaced, and then its handle, it is still the same axe?
Post 21 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
In the case of a dot of added color, I can't imagine there would be much of a difference in grades (i.e., restored vs. unrestored) -- but possibly a tremendous difference in price.


A golden age book with a dot of color touch is not restored by CGC standards.


Incorrect.

Actually, you are being a bit too clever with your choice of wording of the words of "a single dot".

Color touch is ink applied to a cover with the clear intent of masking a defect.

If a blue spot of ink is on a book with a green cover background, where no other ink but green was ever in that area originally, that would not be color touch.

That would just be a defect.

If you believe me to be wrong, post up an example and we can discuss it.

Ehat you did above is slamming CGC, with no substantive reasoning.

I do not think it was intentional on your part, I just want to point out that this sort of comment leads to areactionary, knee jerk bias against CGC.

This goes both ways. It is just as common for collectors who prefer CGC over CBCS, to say similiar things about CBCS.
Post 22 IP   flag post
Collector CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWeeB1967
For me, what has always been missing for restored comics is an estimated grade of the book WITHOUT restoration. So, as an example, for a restored comic with a purple label grade of 9.0 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is the grade that the comic would have if it appeared as it currently does WITHOUT having been restored), I would also like to see a companion grade estimating what the book would grade at if the restoration could be removed.

So, something like 9.0 / 7.5 to show the apparent grade along with an estimated unrestored grade. That way, it's easier to know that you are really buying a very nice looking 7.5 and can adjust your target buying price accordingly.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, though. Hopefully, y'all can understand what I'm getting at.


CBCS and CGC grading would be devalued if a "pre-restored" grade was posted on a label.

Mostly because it would be an arbitrary guess, considering the graders did not actually have the book in it's pre-restored state in hand, to assign a grade.

They would be making an educated guess on estimating a pre restored grade.

In doing so, their competency would come into question.

All restoration is noted by graders. That is all you really need to know, to estimate the original condition of a book.
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Collector Savage_Spawn private msg quote post Address this user
Don't mind them.... then again I'm a dollar bin dumpster diver at this level....😎
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
@CopperAgeKids Perhaps, but since I cannot actually examine the restored book without removing it from the slab, and because the terminology used to describe restoration on a slab is seldom precise, simply looking at a restored, slabbed comic and reading the comments does not provide enough information for me to accurately grade that comic. Therefore, I would not buy that comic.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs
In the case of a dot of added color, I can't imagine there would be much of a difference in grades (i.e., restored vs. unrestored) -- but possibly a tremendous difference in price.


A golden age book with a dot of color touch is not restored by CGC standards.


Incorrect.

Actually, you are being a bit too clever with your choice of wording of the words of "a single dot".

Color touch is ink applied to a cover with the clear intent of masking a defect.

If a blue spot of ink is on a book with a green cover background, where no other ink but green was ever in that area originally, that would not be color touch.

That would just be a defect.

If you believe me to be wrong, post up an example and we can discuss it.

Ehat you did above is slamming CGC, with no substantive reasoning.

I do not think it was intentional on your part, I just want to point out that this sort of comment leads to areactionary, knee jerk bias against CGC.

This goes both ways. It is just as common for collectors who prefer CGC over CBCS, to say similiar things about CBCS.





Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWeeB1967
For me, what has always been missing for restored comics is an estimated grade of the book WITHOUT restoration. So, as an example, for a restored comic with a purple label grade of 9.0 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is the grade that the comic would have if it appeared as it currently does WITHOUT having been restored), I would also like to see a companion grade estimating what the book would grade at if the restoration could be removed.

So, something like 9.0 / 7.5 to show the apparent grade along with an estimated unrestored grade. That way, it's easier to know that you are really buying a very nice looking 7.5 and can adjust your target buying price accordingly.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, though. Hopefully, y'all can understand what I'm getting at.


CBCS and CGC grading would be devalued if a "pre-restored" grade was posted on a label.

Mostly because it would be an arbitrary guess, considering the graders did not actually have the book in it's pre-restored state in hand, to assign a grade.

They would be making an educated guess on estimating a pre restored grade.

In doing so, their competency would come into question.

All restoration is noted by graders. That is all you really need to know, to estimate the original condition of a book.



Well worded and absolutely spot on. I couldn't have stated it any better and I absolutely agree
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids
Mostly because it would be an arbitrary guess, considering the graders did not actually have the book in it's pre-restored state in hand, to assign a grade.

They would be making an educated guess on estimating a pre restored grade.

In doing so, their competency would come into question.

All restoration is noted by graders. That is all you really need to know, to estimate the original condition of a book.

The last paragraph contradicts the previous ones.
If all restoration is noted by graders, then it would be easy to assign a pre-restored grade.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user

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Collector Watcher private msg quote post Address this user
good..waiting for a post on this...so what's my C-1 slight amount of color touch on cover really worth ( I bought this raw about 15 yrs ago and was surprised when it came back purple) ..wondering if I should get it pressed or if the purple makes the grade bump value irrelevant
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Collector jrs private msg quote post Address this user
@Watcher, beautiful book.
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194250 56 30
destitute