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What's in the box? - a different type5186

Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51
I don't like modern comics, so I don't speculate or give advice anymore....

"Does your nurse know that you're using the telephone?"


I think that quote might still work for some people, whether they're a mental patient or not!!!

I had some periods where I liked comics LESS and trimmed down to very low quantities of purchases... Down to $15 per month when books were $2.99 each. Other times, I was strapped and cut down. There was one VERY dark time when I quit, but it didn't stick. There's always something I find that I love in and around the industry.

Part of it these days is "never trust a skinny chef," in regards to writing and also recommending things. I feel like I can't write a medium I'm not current in to some degree, and there are current writers who I enjoy and who inspire me still, though there are a lot who need some work (or at least editorial direction). When I look at the dark years right before and right after the balloon popped, though, I think the industry has some damned good titles, but has its head up its @$$ in regards to staying away from the same pitfalls from that time...

I think as fans, too, we need to keep chasing the dragon. Seeking and reminding ourselves why we loved and love the medium. If someone says, "this book is amazing and here's why," I try to give it a chance. I'm more likely to listen if I have a conversation with them first and can tell they have a clue, but.... I try.

I keep singing the praises of Batman / Elmer Fudd and Batman Annual 2 for that reason. Out of time / continuity, brilliantly written and drawn. Just GOOD. The kind of stories you sit down and read and remind you of why you loved reading comics as a kid, but tempered by things you can appreciate as an adult - the subject matters covered, dialogue, and quiet moments without being too "talkie".

Soapbox... stepping off!
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
I know exactly why I liked comics. It's right here:


No one is making comics "the Marvel way".

You can plow through Jim Shooter's blog and get more detailed info.
http://storytelling.jimshooter.com/

You can read Alex Toth's critique of Steve Rude.
http://illdave.com/comicbooks/history/toth-critiques-rude.htm

Essentially, modern comics no longer have respect for my time, my money, or my personal taste. It's decompressed to the point that they bore me and waste my money.

Publisher's have no respect for the characters.
Computer coloring makes everything look plastic.
Colors used are not natural... the combinations aren't found in nature together.
Too much use of making everything glow.
Digital processing makes everything look muddy.
Inking doesn't enhance the art even if they use an inker, it traces the art. I've read tweets from Neal Adams' son Josh expressing this frustration.
The glossy paper adds to the plastic look.
Competent creators are pushed to the side so they can hire copycat style artists for cheaper.

Editors don't edit. They placate.
Artists ignore scripts. Talked to one at a show who was proud that he'd ignored the script. He drew one story. Did he know or care why minor details may affect a larger and more complex story and scope? Of course not.
Artists are more concerned about the resale value of their art than telling a story. Listened to an artist brag that he rejected a Punisher script because the Punisher would be wearing prison garb and he only wanted to draw the Punisher in classic poses.

The covers misrepresent what's inside.
The covers aren't informing me about what I'm buying or why I should like it.
I'm tired of upshots of heroes poking out their chest.
I don't like cartoon style of art being used on a serious drama. Todd McFarlane draws cartoon faces on characters, so even his art doesn't meet my standards. It annoys me.

There are too many WTF moments when I open a comic. They are not good WTF moments. They are WTF moments that distract me and make me stop reading and enjoying story.

You can also read the Jack Kirby Collector and get insight on panel flow and how the eye follows the illustrations.

I've got a friend who will read anything. Good or bad, he'll give anything a shot.
I'm not that way. I was open minded when I started reading comics. I refined my tastes over time and developed a sense of what I like and don't like. I can quickly spot what I don't like. I can quickly spot what I do like. Some people say I'm too picky. As a general rule though... when I like something, there's going to be a larger audience out there that likes the same elements.

The argument that I get in return relates to the current comic book consumer and their buying habits and contentment.
Using the current consumer to define quality ignores the hundreds of thousands of potential consumers that just got tired of their expectations not being met. The comic consumer is like fish in a barrel. The hook keeps getting dropped in with bait. The only fish that are biting are the ones that ate the bait last time. The fish that didn't get fed died off. Once the unfed fish die off, it doesn't matter what bait you put on the hook. They aren't there to bite.
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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
@X51 I get where you're coming from, really. It's the same discussion we could have on music these days (or from the last 15-ish years. You have to REALLY hunt for the gems. Even when people recommend in many cases is based on a lowered bar of expectations. I am surprised when I REALLY REALLY enjoy something, and I find myself recommending a lot of trades over anything else, since that's filtered reading - easier to discriminate storylines that have run the gauntlet... And, they tend to be older with some that have squeaked through from authors who shine bright for a few projects and get beat to hell by publishers wanting a little too much content from them (or maybe push themselves too hard).

Anywho, I wouldn't want to try and change your opinion on things. I get it. I guess my long-winded point is just that there's still some "gold" to be found in these mines - you might just need to dig a little deeper. BUT, you have to want to. If you don't, that's okay, too! There's plenty of love to be found in what came before. I'm still digging there, too, and want to play in that sandbox as well.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelastbard
@X51 I get where you're coming from, really. It's the same discussion we could have on music these days (or from the last 15-ish years. You have to REALLY hunt for the gems. Even when people recommend in many cases is based on a lowered bar of expectations. I am surprised when I REALLY REALLY enjoy something, and I find myself recommending a lot of trades over anything else, since that's filtered reading - easier to discriminate storylines that have run the gauntlet... And, they tend to be older with some that have squeaked through from authors who shine bright for a few projects and get beat to hell by publishers wanting a little too much content from them (or maybe push themselves too hard).

Anywho, I wouldn't want to try and change your opinion on things. I get it. I guess my long-winded point is just that there's still some "gold" to be found in these mines - you might just need to dig a little deeper. BUT, you have to want to. If you don't, that's okay, too! There's plenty of love to be found in what came before. I'm still digging there, too, and want to play in that sandbox as well.


I took gambles on finding the gold from about 1996-2001. It was too hit and miss. I ended up regretting a lot of what I bought. Some of the stuff did appreciate in value, but it took longer. The stuff I liked best was coming out too far apart and eventually sales were so low, the creators gave up. I like plots that grow in depth and complexity across a broad spectrum of titles. An indy title cn't do that. It takes a larger publisher to do that. Msrvel and DC build and destroy and repeat. They wonder why consumers are tired of them.
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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
@X51 Much harder, yeah... Invincible did it... Walking Dead does, too, but you have to read trades. Unwritten (Mike Carey) did it well. Y The Last Man. Saga, I'm told (haven't read it yet).

Opinions vary, but Erik Larsen has managed to keep that crazy Savage Dragon going for YEARS and it nods back to the classics again and again. He's just having FUN with the book and damn the torpedoes, you know? I stopped reading for years, picked up 90 issues off of eBay, tore through it, kept up for another 40 issues, dropped off, and am regretting not keeping up again.

Again, though, you're right that those can't cross over multiple titles (unless you count if Kirkman tries to do something across the "Funk-o-tron-verse", which he hasn't gone too crazy with.

I miss the long-form era of storytelling on the Marvel side. It's what I want to be able to do!! Tell a story over 75 issues with shorter arcs mixed in. A BLAST!!!
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Collector ZosoRocks private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelastbard
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51

While this issue of Previews is neat, it is also the highest print run of any issue of Previews at 150,000 copies.
I get that info from a Previews Trading Card series.


They probably had some GREAT ad money!

@ZosoRocks Not sure if I have that one... Would have to see if I can find my "stack"... In a box somewhere, but '95 was an odd year. Working two jobs, in college, renting a place, riding the bus EVERYWHERE (or walking) in SoCal, but still managing to maintain my collection. Challenging, but kept my runs of main books going.


sorry...Aug 1996.....my bad.
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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZosoRocks
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelastbard
Quote:
Originally Posted by X51

While this issue of Previews is neat, it is also the highest print run of any issue of Previews at 150,000 copies.
I get that info from a Previews Trading Card series.


They probably had some GREAT ad money!

@ZosoRocks Not sure if I have that one... Would have to see if I can find my "stack"... In a box somewhere, but '95 was an odd year. Working two jobs, in college, renting a place, riding the bus EVERYWHERE (or walking) in SoCal, but still managing to maintain my collection. Challenging, but kept my runs of main books going.


sorry...Aug 1996.....my bad.


I'll look through boxes as I have time and see what I can find. I'm iffy on those years. I had SO MANY issues of Previews - it's just a matter of finding them, ha ha... Comics? Easy. Magazines? Not so much.

Well, comics are easy to find from a, "oh, look, that's where all of my comics are!" standpoint.
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
Can't stand Walking Dead and have no interest in anything by Kirkman.

I knew who Pia Guerra was long before "Y: The Last Man". I spotted her talent early.



I like large scope interactive universe stuff. Stand-alone titles aren't what I want. Good story arcs are not what I want. I want something similar to what Marvel was in the 60's-80's.

Actually, I detest story arcs. If the story can be broken up into TPB's and make you feel like it was a stand-alone story in each, then it's not what I want. I want something organic and evolving. Characters that die don't interest me. I have no interest in reading about losers or heroes that constantly get by on pure luck. I pretty much agree with Ditko that “Heroes don’t have flaws. Heroes are heroes.” (Ref. http://tgtmedia.com/news/jim-shooter-part-two-defiant-valiant-steve-ditko-much/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jim-shooter-part-two-defiant-valiant-steve-ditko-much )

I have early work by Bendis, Mack, Allred, Cho.. etc.










None of these names were new to me when they broke out as comic celebrities. Even though I recognized their abilities early, they still never produced exactly what I want.
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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
@X51 I meant "loose" arcs... Even with the long-form storytelling of the 60's to 80's, they had arcs. I'm not referring to writing for trade. I'm meaning plots and subplots.... payoffs and BIG payoffs. Real storytelling.

BTW, I have never seen any of those books except for the Bendis one... nice!
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Collector X51 private msg quote post Address this user
People think I'm not familiar with indy comics, but I know about stuff that others have never seen. It's not a lack of knowledge that prevents me from finding what I want. The problem is that no one is publishing comics I want. This publisher attempted what I like, but unfortunately, they get flagged as porn because they included tasteful nudity in their early issues.


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Collector Doc_Cop private msg quote post Address this user
Well said X51. I appreciated the time you put into your opinion of the new versus the old stuff. probably why I only buy silver and bronze. Nuff said.
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Collector DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user

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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
Just found another few things in a box... Nothing crazy, but since I was always buying anything X-Men, I thought they were notable. Has anyone else read these Christopher Golden books? Personally, I think they were the best. They were the first, too, go figure. The other reprints issues 110, 123, & 124 of Uncanny.














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