Most buyers DO NOT CARE about grade4980
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@Tommy it’s all just bait. Barking up that tree you’ll never be correct no matter the facts, and you’ll be blamed for being emotionally wrong as well. Most folks here just walk past the tree nowadays   |
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 CBCS broke up with me over Facebook.
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| Crazy | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I'll let shrewbeer's own words respond to this: Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Yes, he really did say that. But this is someone who is in a position to criticize others about "being correct"...? Really...? It's a bitter, personal attack, said solely to negatively influence opinion, and has no place here. Also shrewbeer's own words: Quote: Originally Posted by shrewbeer Tell me...is shrewbeer's post above a positive one, or one that tears down...? |
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Quote:Originally Posted by CFP_Comics I know, right? I'm still trying to figure out what being "emotionally wrong" means... |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Some context for you. I really don't care how many times I'm right or wrong in a discussion, as long as by the end of it I know what is right. Some people argue just to be right. Others do so to be productive and grow. I'd much rather debate with someone that cares about the latter as well, otherwise I'm just wasting my words. Like now. lol What was the topic? Oh yeah... I didn't bother to read the first post but the title, so I don't really have any frame of reference to comment on the actual topic here.... |
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I like comic books.  |
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Quote:Originally Posted by KingNampa Me too  |
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@Logan510  I feel a bromance forming.  |
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| Post 133 • IP flag post | ||
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| DocBrown's thread starter title: Most buyers DO NOT CARE about grade Some where in this now longish (and mostly illuminating - to me, at least, as I seek to understand and comprehend "NEW" school comics dealing) thread with way too many various side-bar conversations (d)evolving in to tangents the point was made that "GRADE" is now euphemism (or, hi-jacked in other circles) with being slabbed "CERTIFIED" on levels that novice buyers seeking investment potentials can build DATA in order to make (supposedly) sound INVESTMENT decisions in their diverse portfolio seeking. Ergo, with that in mind, the thread title per se is most assuredly correct in that MOST buyers (ie mayhaps instead say "READERS"  of comics really DO NOT CARE about the fine minutiae of "grade" in the aspect of seeking the elusive flavor(s) of NM with 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 and ten oh (all of which subject to change whenever re-submitted for what ever reason, but think about the concept every time a book comes in for a re-look, guess who makes more bucks laughing all the way to the bank).MOST (shouting from the highest mountain tops) BUYERS of comics are indeed READERS who will on a level playing field sifting, comparing, then picking at stuff at shows will seek the better condition copy at the lowest price in order to enjoy simply the art of this or that comics art creator If I understand DocBrown correctly, (and I think I do and have from the git-go), a decent copy with minimal wear is perfectly OK.  Fifty (plus) years in this gig tells me so as well. This beautiful Jack Cole Plastic Man is perfectly OK with me even with its bottom right hand corner of the cover off. the EYE-APPEAL BEAUTY of the cover art in unbelemished Having the BEST COPY in CGC "census" is a joke to most readers of comics. I recently absorbed elsewhere the term "whales" in reference to the big time buyers of Heritage's latest auction. Whales rule the comics universe ocean right now. Think about what happens when the coral reefs (outlets for comic books) which enable plankton (ie newbie READERS of comics) to grow begin to wither and die. More than a thousand LCS gigs have closed in the past year or so There is presently a false foundation in the business of mercantiling comics to the detriment of long term health. History in the guise of events of human folly such as Tulip Mania in 1600s Holland (just one example, mind you) serve as stark guidepost reminders of what goes up when manipulated by human greed ALWAYS eventually finds GRAVITY the hard way. ALWAYS. Also some might scope out that Newton guy who sat under a tree watching apples in trees. Some say he was a smart cookie. Yes, if GRADE now equates with SLAB, then, hands down, most buyers DO NOT CARE. This from a dinosaur once blessed with co-buying 7/9s of the supposed second best "PEDIGREE" funny book stash ever encountered and acquired. The very stupidly named "SAN FRANCISCO" collection accumulated first began by a kid named TOM REILLY, then his parents buying one of each thru mid summer 1945 after TR enlisted in the US Navy Dec 1941 shortly after Pearl Harbor sneak attack. The arrogant younger "experts" can claim all day long they think they know better than me what that nearly 4000 NM/M white paper collection encompassed. The ID markers which we back then downgraded as being semi-imperfect were on way less than 10& of the books. NO WHERE has any one come up with issues which I know were in there cuz I sold them back in 1973 like Mystery Men #1 1939, Whiz 2 (#1), Detective Comics #27, Wonder Comics #1 1939 and a lot of other perceived "KEY" issues. Having such a near complete batch of the creme de la cream 1939-1945 in literally all titles (especially Dec 1941 thru summer 1945) happen almost all at once to a few 21 year olds in our first Comics and Comix location at 2512 Telegraph Ave near UC-Berkeley was a near instant PhD education in how ALL the comics of that era juxtaposed with each other. Made it that much easier to trace who begat what from whom in those formative years as the market for vintage "gold" began to jump towards the stratosphere. Out of which my selling the Whiz #1 and the Tec 27 to (then Hunt Bros oil lawyer) Burrell Rowe (then of Houston Texas and a few years later opened his store there he called Camelot with then partners Russ Cochran and Bruce Hamilton) were the very first comic books EVER to reach the 2000 dollar barrier (Whiz Burrell bought first) then a week later break over two grand with the Tec 27 (2200) which garnered national AP/UPI newspaper wire service which in turn brought me three more Tec 27 issues over that first month, but I digress as I am wont to do... I REPEAT myself in a slightly different way: MOST of the Tom Reilly collection has yet to be identified - and most likely never will. The late stage manufacture of pedigree concepts is nothing more than misleading marketing ploys. At this stage of life I sorta go oh hum and laugh at those who proclaim expertise in something we found and were blessed with literally before they were born.   |
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Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Wait, I thought you just said...here, let me see if I can find it...ah, here it is: Quote: Originally Posted by sb Guess the tree was too appealing for you to walk past this time... The reality is, you'll just post whatever half-baked misinformed opinion you have, including this one about me here, because you lack respect for the truth and everyone reading this. It is careless and reckless to say things that are wrong, with no regard for the truth, just because you might figure out what's right "by the end"...but you have the gall to criticize someone else about "the facts" and "being correct"...? I don't interact with you because I feel that doing so is a waste of time. You're a hothead who has nothing but contempt for those who don't coddle your ego. But I also don't go around telling other people my opinion of you and suggesting that they ignore you, even though I think that would be a beneficial thing for them to do. The claim that you have ever debated to "grow" is laughable. Here's another statement of yours: Quote: Originally Posted by sb ...so don't bother trying to claim any higher moral ground. No one's buying it. You started yet another fire, because you lack self-control...now put it out by finding someone else to bother. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics BLB...while I don't always agree with your contentions in previous posts on some topics...I always enjoy hearing stories like this about the funny books that existed way before I was born. Especially about the prices paid and where they came from. Thanks for posting. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics This is not correct. Yes, as I said before, I recognize that a measure of confusion is likely, but "grade" is not the same thing as "graded." They refer to two different things. Quote: Originally Posted by blb No, BUYERS. "Readers" does not encompass the people who buy to collect, but still don't care about grade. Quote: Originally Posted by blb That's it! Quote: Originally Posted by blb I disagree, as I've said throughout this thread. It is my contention that most buyers of comics simply want a copy. Yes...we ought not argue the exceptions, and say "well, if presented with VF/NM copy or a Fair copy, you're saying they wouldn't care which copy they got?" The answer to that, obviously, is no. But if they run across a F/VF copy vs. a VF copy, the vast majority of buyers wouldn't even notice the differences, much less pause to consider them. Quote: Originally Posted by blb ...for MOST buyers, yes. Not all, and that "not all" forms a large part of these slabbed comic forums. Quote: Originally Posted by blb I have no doubt that that's true, but why say something like that on a slabbed comics message board? It's not a "joke" to many of the people here. Should they be ridiculed...? Quote: Originally Posted by blb They always have. Quote: Originally Posted by blb No. "gradeD", with a "d", equates with slab. "Grade" does not. Quote: Originally Posted by blb The grading companies are only offering their opinions. While, certainly, that can lead to arrogance on the part of some, the fact is, CGC and CBCS are only offering their opinion, and nowhere do they ever even hint that their opinions are inviolate. That vast democratic organism known as "the market" has decided that they trust those opinions, and that's why their opinions have the value that they do. Perhaps the arrogance isn't on their part, then... Quote: Originally Posted by blb Oh brother. Bob, you are one of a kind. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by PeteN Bob certainly is a character, for sure. His Comics and Comix store in Berkeley was one of the very first stores I visited regularly. It's where I saw, for the first time in my life, a copy of FF #1. It was graded "Fine" and priced at $1,000. This would have been June of 1990. Then, when the new OPG Update came out, and the "NM" price went from $3000 to $3300, they raised the price to $1100.  I couldn't have afforded it at $1,000, so hey what can ya do? I'm grateful for comics pioneers like Bob and others. |
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| Q: what do you call a person who always insists having the last word? A: DocBrown 🤣 |
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| PeteN, I surely hope to the Comics Ghods we devoutly pay homage to that I am a "character" - as all of you are as well. We are each a sum total of life experiences. Some are blessed with moments in the sun early in life. Some later on. Some never venture forth and instead remain in darkness. We all have opines held. I never expect all to agree with me. That would be silly. That said, if when proven wrong I readily alter my perceptions of what is truth in the business of comics. Comic Book Store Wars is an examination of such truths behind the corporate jargon learned & gleaned by examination of a ga-zillion documents over the course of more than half a century in this gig as well as learned testimonies from tens of thousands of creator publisher distributor collector reader researcher scholar friends and foe alike. There is no agenda other than a quest of truth how it all came down evolving a beautiful art form grossly misunderstood back in to ana socially accepted business still being put down by a vast majority of the USA populace because too many a decade earlier had believed the BS fed to them via media frenzy. Here is our 2512 Telegraph Ave store front where the 2nd and 3rd portions of the Tom Reilly collection came to us in May and June 1973 respectively. This pic is from June 1977 a month after I moved in to the facility after my ex-Comics & Comix partners had moved a block up the street. The pic of me is just inside that door circa a bit later in 1977. There is an FF #1 on the wall, nice copy then less than a grand. Some kind soul here in CBCS chat land a couple months back went thru IDing most of the books on the wall behind me. He left a few he could not figure out. Here they are: A) Dusty Ayres/Battle Birds 1930s pulp B) ?? still C) Marching Marvins Print Mint Joel Beck circa 1967 D) Robin Hood ish Quality Comics Matt Baker circa 1955 DocBrown. What is your real name if I may be bold as to inquire. I am interviewing customer souls from that era who were actually inside the joint during its heyday. In 1981 I leap frogged this location two blocks to 2411 Telegraph Ave placing us a block closer to UC-Berkeley campus than my ex-pat Comics & Comix cohorts ramping up the comic book store war volume in the process by design. At the same time I also had a store in the Haight Ashbury, one at Pier 39 in SF's Fisherman's Wharf as well as one in Santa Rosa on 4th St (where Peanut's Charlie Schultz was a customer). BTW the Berkeley location closed Jan 1987 during the implosion which followed the Feb 1986 central warehouse flood disaster wherein a million comic books turned in to paper mache bricks. At the time the estimated retail value was between 3 and 4 million dollars. DocB, if you were hitting C&C circa 1990, that was not my energy in that place. By Spring 1987 Best of Two Worlds had imploded to just my Haight store shedding 23 full time workers in the process. In 1990 Terry Zwigoff was filming Robert Crumb talking comics with his first Zap Comics publisher Don Donahue inside my lone Haight location by then dubbed Best Comics. Terry released CRUMB! in 1995. There is 10 to 15 minutes in CRUMB! showing various aspects of that store If C&C raised the FF#1 from a grand to 1100 post OPG release, that was them. Me, I was always back then a market "maker," never a "reactor" following some one's supposed expertise. In most cases when the new Overstreet would come out, in many most instances I viewed the new OPG as "Oh boy, now I can move some of the books out at the "lower" price I had them at.  Here is are a couple pics from the first couple days opening the place up May 1977 when we were setting up for biz. During the very first load in of boxes the first customer in the door asked if he could buy a Creepy #1 I had a stack of semi-exposed. a buck fifty    |
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| Interesting | ||
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| BLB Comics Your life seems like a fascinating story from the early days of comic book dealing! I only hope that if you ever write a book about your exploits, that you hire a good editor and proof-reader because your posts are often illegible. I have difficulty following run-on sentences, or sentences without proper question marks or comas or basic grammatical structure. Fascinating stuff though, and great pictures! |
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| Most of Comic Book Store Wars containing well over 100,000 words has already been written starting back in the mid 90s and up thru 2006 or so directly edited by good friends no longer with us Julius Schwartz and Jerry Bails. Perchance you have heard of them? Some medical nightmares amongst other stuff going on 2006-2016 lost me a decade. My posts with longish sentences I run along the length playing some times on purpose. Places like this here and FB I "write" for me exercising my brain's memories. My mind works faster than the fingers can type. Every one's mileage will vary reading these musings according to the patience each one contains to absorb what I share. Unfortunately I have limited amounts of time as I am also attempting hundreds of auctions on eBay beginning a couple weeks ago. Am swamped with packaging work as a result. http://stores.ebay.com/BLBcomics These musings are my way of taking a break from today's realities. Besides, I am not being paid here to write "pro" style. Below is are the first four pages from Part Two which was in Comic Book Artist #6 and #7 late 1999 combined comprising some 25,000 words and a LOT of visual aid published by TwoMorrows.com where one can buy the PDF download from them of each issue. I recommend CBA #6 and #7 by the way http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=98_56     |
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Quote:Originally Posted by poka Oh, there are many seemingly seeking LAST word That said, funny book folk tend to be passionate about the subject |
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Quote:Originally Posted by poka Q: What do you call a person who feels the need to stir the pot by making snide comments, which is then duly "liked" by the usual suspects? A: poka 🤣 |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Way to get the last word in Doc :-) |
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Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Sorry to hear you lost so many comics due to flooding. Were the comics stored in the basement? Where did the flooding occur. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by TommyJasmin But you just got the last word. Oh, wait, damn it, I guess now I did. Shoot! Besides, weren't you told that it's all just bait, and you shouldn't even be responding...? And poka's comment has FIVE likes now, and my response has ZERO! That must mean he's right! So confusing! |
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| Per the sidebar about stores, here's one of my experiences. I was in elementary school and went to center city one weekend to find older comics that I could afford. This particular store sold books & magazines. Turned out they had comics too, stored in their basement. They had a couple FF#1 for a dollar. A DOLLAR??? It just came out a few months ago and it was only 10 cents. I not only didn't have money like that, I wouldn't pay it! That was highway robbery!! And do you have any idea of how many comic companies had already folded after just printing a few issues of a title? Remember the Captain Marvel that could separate his body parts? No? That's ok, most people don't. Marvel was too new to take that much of a chance on. ......Rearview mirror has such memories in it. Different item..stores. There have been a few shows on tv revolving around different restaurants in deep trouble only to be saved by the protagonist of the particular series that hero was in. Far, far too many of these places were failing, it was learned, because while the owners of these places had dreams to show off their good foods THEY NEVER GOT ANY TRAINING IN HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS, let alone a restaurant. It was very scary to hear how so many people throughout the country had a dream, opened a place to sell their food but had no idea on how to do it correctly...especially since they now had employees dependent on them for their livelihood. Hey kid, ya wanna open a comic book store of your very own? There's nothing to it. Ya got your collection you can sell and build your business on that. Real easy, just look at how many people are doing it. ( No, don't mind the bodies. You're not them.) For now. |
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| My son opened a comic book store this year. It will be open 1 year Jan 1st. Lessons; new comics are not real profitable, a dangerous area. You also need to set up at shows and sell on eBay. Have sales every couple of months. Do toys, figurines, cards, art, expensive consignments. Have a wallet full of cash (that’s not a problem, prices in general are still rising. | ||
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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| @doog - if your son has an ebay store, post a link to it here to see if you can get him some business! | ||
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| clickable text Freaking kid is living My dream! |
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OrbitCityComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I disagree. I believe most buyers, since the majority are collectors, do care about the grade. Most of us will not touch a modern below 9.8. Since there is no scientific study, nor any actual scientific data to analyze, we'll never truly know. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by OrbitCityComics Good point. Look at the massive premium prices put on 9.8 books compared to 9.6. |
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