Most buyers DO NOT CARE about grade4980
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Did his house get caught in a tornado...? Poor guy, no one should be without a roof. Speaking of "Aweandlorder", he's yet another of the millions who cannot handle being challenged about anything. I have no respect for people who shut down the discussion just because someone disagrees with them. As far as "p'owning" goes (it would be "pwns", by the way), I expect you'll find in the end that the most successful keep their mouths shut about it, and don't go bragging about it on internet chat boards. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The proper nomenclature is pwned. Because |>|Z()848!|_!+’/ |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown This is interesting, given that this very morning I rec’d a package from amazon, with a return option through amazon, in an amazon package, although I purchased it on ebay. I cant imagine Amazon is ok with this...  |
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Drogio Sometimes those trucks have to slam on their brakes hard in our traffic. People cut them off. I haven't taken physic since high school, but I've seen some nasty damage on expensive materials. I've said it elsewhere, but UPS used to roll up to our dock and the shelves on the truck were empty and all the boxes were in a pile on the floor of the truck. I think there is some negligence in those cases, but you aren't going to be able to prove it. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Slabbed comics are "Certified" to be in the stated grade as encapsulated. It is sadly funny the slab trip gig has appropriated the word "graded" as its own personal fiefdom. And all else is relegated as "raw" which in some minds implies without even any protection at all. Even a bag & board. Much less uncooked I get inquiries from time to time asking if my books are graded. To which I reply ALL my comics & stuff are graded but of course. |
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Darkga private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer That means whatever it was listed as on eBay, it was in fact cheaper on Amazon from a third party (who is not your eBay seller). This is a new trick shady eBay sellers are using. You probably received it as a "gift" right? Return the item through eBay to get all of your money back. Then go to Amazon and using the info from that ticket, find the Amazon seller and buy it on Amazon directly from them.  |
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| Post 56 • IP flag post | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Actually, if you dig through all of CGC's legal disclaimers, they certify nothing. You are paying them to slab the book and put a grade on it. Legally, they take no responsibility for anything beyond that. I've never dug through and read CBCS's legal jargon, but I expect that it would be the same. |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkga thats what I thought at first, but Amazon was more expensive! Go figure 🤯 | ||
| Post 58 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by X51 So CGC "guarantees" absolutely NOTHING! Their corporate name is there fore bull pucks in motion. Too many of us have learnt that lesson the hard way. My little original point was the slab happy guys (and gals) who are super in to this sort of coffin making have stolen the word "graded" as the only way to describe their perceived slabbed treasure. All else in the world is "raw" |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics CGC guarantees that the comic is genuine. That's a valuable guarantee. Also, comic people didn't come up with the "graded" vs. "raw" nomenclature...that was from the coin people, in the 80's. |
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Only in past tense. |
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| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Well, the problem with this position that you so adamantly assert is two fold. In your favor, I will readily agree with you that it does certainly suck for sellers, who are consistently competent graders...to have their books looked down upon because they are not slabbed by CGC or CBCS. But you are headed deep into overzealous, "I despise slabbed comics" territory otherwise, when you are neglecting the upside of restoration detection and an independent grade by a competent third party offers. I am 42, and have been a part time dealer since I was 20 when I set up at my first comic convention in Dover,Delaware...I collected on and off since the age of 9. I am wholly confident that I am a competent grader. From the age of 21-25 I actually made a decent living, selling comics full time, between doing a show almost every weekend and selling on eBay, with a 5 or so year break from comics altogether from about the age of 25-30. . This was literally the glory days of selling comics on eBay, and at shows as well.....I grossed on average $1500/week between eBay sales and a weekly comic show. After all costs ate accounted for, how else can a 22 year old guy profit $750 per week in cash without either selling duh-rugzz or soliciting sex from 50+ year old closeted fruitcakes? Bartending, maybe but that's about it. I got into trade work (construction) and got put of comics because I wanted to do something else for a living in lieu of buying & selling comics....so I do not know quite when the online and show market plummetted but it can reasonably be said that with CGC coming into play, along with the Marvel movie phenomenon of the early 2000's, which made slabbed key books the books to buy, and made run, ungraded books drop in value. It can also be said that a tech explosion like eBay, which made comics much more accessible to collectors nationally & globally, while allowing common run marvel and DC silver age books to routinely fetch around 100% of Overstreet in 7 day auction format with no minimum bid or reserve prices....that sort of gold rush for sellers is not sustainable historically in any market I can think of because the market eventually catches up and corrects itself. So I can no longer list an X-Men #5 at an "opening bid of the ORIGINAL Cover Price Of 12 Cents"...which is the tagline I used to catch more bids, in GD condition and expect to get 90-100% of Overstreet GD which was probably around $39 in GD shortly before the movie price wave hit the market.....or 90-100% of Overstreet GD for a Fantastic Four #8.(insert any silver in any low to mid grade) I will be lucky to get 50% of current Overstreet GD price for a solid GD of a low number but non-key Marvel book, that would fetch a 2.0 from CGC or CBCS. So yeah, that sucks for me but since the current Overstreet price on silver books like these is conservatively 200% of what it was in the early 2000's...it all shakes out evenly. Of course, the keys like X-Men 1 are now at around 600%-700% of what they were before CGC (and other noted factors) fully changed the market. In the long term, the market has benefited from CGC and CBCS's third party grading certification. |
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| Post 62 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Aweandlorderis a good dude, I dunno where you're coming from with that but I'd disagree. I know him thru the CGC board, never met him in person but I had a conversation with him over the phone a while back around the time someone got me banned from that forum by creating a faked shill account using my IP address,while I was on a 2 week suspensiin for political posts shortly after the 2016 election results.... who went on to create another fake cgc Forums ID, who posted various insults to several CGC boardies in the public Moderatiin subforums. I never did submit an appeal to that ban, it just pissed me off too much to deal with. ...but I do need to force myself to do that soon, my fatger is a lawyer, which is certainly helpful.I am 99% certain who the person who did all this crazy ass vendetta with me is, not going to post his name publically though. But he's a legit troll, I believe he was banned from tge CGCForum aftee I was, I am sure he has been banned permanently from posting on this forum. Anyway, digression aside...Dan is 100% not thickheaded. |
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| Post 63 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So the slab world has stolen the term "graded" - any onewith eyeballs can ascertain if a comic book is "genuine" and if they can not, then they should not be paying more than cover price until they do some obvious basic homework ANY ONE can be a restoration "expert" simply buy and use a black lite bulb turned on with all other light darkened out in a semi-convoluted repsonse from some one up above hung up in multiple quote bars this old dinossaur is not going to stop to figure out, for the umpteenth time, just in case twas directed my direction, I do not - and never have - stated I despise slabbing of comics. I tried that aspect once - got burned - the owner of that fruit stand across the street is a man lacking ethics on any conceivable level As Phil Seuling used to say, "Mint" in a flavor attached to pepper, |
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| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Disagree. My mother has eyeballs, but she would not be able to tell if a comic book is genuine or not. Quote: Originally Posted by blb Also disagree. Blacklight bulbs won't detect trimming, for instance. Quote: Originally Posted by blb One more time: CGC is "owned" by the Certified Collectibles Group, which is a limited liability corporation. CGC itself is not owned by a person. The CCG contains NGC, which dwarfs CGC in size and scope. As such, while it's certainly possible that principals at CGC might have a personal problem with someone, the "owner" of CGC...the CCG...is very unconcerned with targeting an individual comic book dealer, and likely has never heard of anyone here. This is a graded comics forum. As such, those who are...or appear to be...anti-slabbing probably won't find this the most welcoming community. |
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| Post 65 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Disagree. Someone who cannot handle dissenting opinions is, by definition, not a "good dude." Your personal opinion about him doesn't change that. If a person can't tolerate having his or her opinions challenged, he has no business expressing them in the first place. |
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| Post 66 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Okay than, I will reword that as " you don't like CGC". That can't be disputed.   🤣I dunno what your issue with CGC is but it does not change my opinion of them, whatever your issue with CGC may be. That said....most collectors do not know how to grade accurately, or detect restoration. It takes a trained eye to do both of those things. |
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| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Uhh, yup, trimming is detected using eyeballs and/or rulers - preferably a combo there-of. Beyond easy - the easiest "resto" to detect. Black lite was figured out by some of us many decades ago to check for glue, color spotting of filling in spine breaks, etc. But, go for it, split hairs for wriggle room, Me, I call trimming of books, "DESTRUCTION," when some thing is taken away and not added on to it for "enhancement" and, no offense, DocB, but mayhaps yer mom might not be in the market to spend big bucks on comic books. I know my 91 year old M doesn't However, those that do better damned well do a modicum of minimum due dilegence before forking over Big Bucks on funny books. I would not trust the word(s) of that fruit stand across the street on much of any thing. I have FULLY endorsed CBCS since it's inception And just for the record Steve G called a single "person" - not some LLC entity - but continue your line of thought as you see fit. So far it remains a free country to express one's self. - and just for record, no offense meant to any one, some of us choose not to get all wrapped up in quotes within quotes within quotes, so if I missed one of the replies, my humble apology 95%+ of ALL comic book collectors are in to reading the stuff playing under the covers and think the slab crowd seeking the 9.8 "grail" quest is Bat-Sht-Crazy. Me, I think AmWay scenarios storing all those slabs is where that aspect of most of them will eventually end up. The slab gig is now close to 18 years on. The inner core got rich, and a lot of folks who buh-leeved the preached gospels ended up holding the bag, errr, slab, wondering where their bigger fool was to be found.  |
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| and my last post was answering DocBrown. I just noticed CopperAgeKids entering fray. I had not yet read your comments, Please do not think I was answering you (yet) I will get to yer thoughts - but am working on eBay order fulfillment |
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| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
| DB: I never had such an issue with Aweandlorder, guessing you two rubbed it each tge wrong way. Btw, I intentionally spelled "ruthless" as "roofless". BLB: WRT your take on 9.8's, you grossly undervalue the intrinsic value that a third party grade from CGC or CBCS confers. Not aure there is |
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| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown Wait a sec doc... your thread is not about the ratio of graded to ungraded comics! Back up a minute. Your thread is simply whether people care about grade. And you opened the whole thread with "we're only talking about raw books". You can't make a generalization while first excluding an unknown percentage of the total population! That's like saying "ok I'm going to make a point about sweet foods, but let's leave food with added aspartame out of the discussion". Agreed on the rarity of being able to walk into a comic shop period these days. Hhmm... this point itself sort of deflates your claim a bit. And again, just because a book isn't in a slab doesn't mean the dealer hasn't graded it! And, let me add this. You can't tell me when someone walks into a comic shop, and buys a comic of a given issue, they don't look the pile over and make sure they are not taking a cherry, if not the best, copy. How is that not caring about grade Doc? :-) You can't change the topic mid-stream here to make a point. Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown And that has what to do with this thread? (reminder - whether collectors care about grade) Quote: Originally Posted by DocBrown And Heritage has what, a million registered members? And I know, you want to focus on eBay, then why do most dealers include a grade if nobody cares? Heck, if nobody cared, I would certainly not waste the very non-negligible time it takes me to grade books, but oddly, the most common feedback I get from my eBay sales is along the lines of "very happy, solid grading!" ;-) |
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| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by TommyJasmin Correct. Graded or "slabbed" books aren't part of this particular discussion. Not sure your point, here. I would dispute your understanding of what my thread is about, but go on... Quote: Originally Posted by tj Uh. Your analogy doesn't make any sense. Your sentence "you can't make a generalization while first excluding an unknown percentage of the total population" doesn't make any sense. So, my question to you is...why can't you? Have you gotten around to reading the entire post yet...? Quote: Originally Posted by tj Absolutely true, but as I made clear in my initial post, by "graded", I'm referring to slabs. By "grade", I mean "the condition assigned to the book, regardless of by whom." I recognize that there's the potential for confusion, but context makes it clear. Quote: Originally Posted by tj Yes, I can tell you precisely that. The majority, if not the vast majority, does NOT walk into a store and take a "cherry", if not "the best", copy. Buyers who do that are ATYPICAL. They are NOT the norm. But that's ancillary to the point, which is, again, that if you ARE that person, recognizing that fact can help you manage your own expectations. Quote: Originally Posted by tj Sorry, I don't have any idea what you're talking about here. Either you're a super genius talking wayyyyyyy over my head...which is certainly possible...or there's a disconnect on your side that isn't communicating your point very clearly. So let me ask you another question: which topic did you, in your own words, think I started on, and which topic do you think I changed to? Quote: Originally Posted by tj No. That is incorrect. This thread is not about whether COLLECTORS care about grade, but whether BUYERS care about grade. Collectors are PART OF the group of buyers, but they are not all of it, not by a very, very long shot. As to what this has to do with the thread, simple: a statement was made in this thread, and I responded to it. As to what it has to do with the topic, I think it's fairly obvious, but I'll say it again: if you can't find what you're looking for from your "fave dealer", and you want it, you'll probably have to look for it elsewhere. Very, very, VERY few eBay sellers have a regular rotating stock of the same merchandise, all the time. If I'm looking for ASM #129, and none of my "faves" are selling it, what are my options? Find someone who has it, and see if they know how to grade or not. Quote: Originally Posted by tj I don't want to focus on eBay. Never said I did. You make a lot of assumptions that you shouldn't make. Of those "million registered members" at Heritage, how many of them buy, or have ever bought, comics...? If you merely eyeballed your books and gave only three grades...Good, Fine, or Near Mint...and put all your books within one of those categories...8 times out of 10, you would still get comments about "solid grading!" Why? Because most buyers don't care. And I would caution anyone being a literalist, and understand the context of my statement: it doesn't mean they don't care AT ALL, just that "close enough" is good enough for the vast majority of buyers. Most dealers include a grade because most buyers want a general idea of the condition of a book. However....as I stated at the very start of this thread, if the book is graded "NM", and it shows up in what would actually grade 7.5 or 8.0 at CBCS...they don't care. If the book would actually grade 9.8...they don't care. So long as it's not a ragged piece of junk, they don't care. If the buyer who DOES care...that would be me, and people like me...understands and appreciates that going into it, then they could potentially save themselves a lot of headache and hassle...as I said, I wish I had someone to tell me that 20 years ago. |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BLBcomics Trimming is the "easiest" restoration to detect? Really...? As someone who was dealing with Silver Age comics when they were brand new, knowing the tolerances that printing had back then, I'm not sure how you would be able to say that. Trimming is easy to detect when it's obvious. I guess you've not heard of micro-trimming...? Quote: Originally Posted by blb Very few would disagree with this, but it's got to be called something, and "restoration" is it. Black lights can't detect it. Quote: Originally Posted by blb None taken. Quote: Originally Posted by bb Not relevant. Your statement was that "anybody with eyeballs" could determine whether a comic is genuine or not. My mother has eyeballs. She would not be able to determine whether a comic was genuine or not. Therefore, the guarantee that CGC provides has value. And maybe she IS in the market to spend big bucks on comic books...for me. Slabbing by respected third parties gives her the ability to do so, greatly lessening the chance of her being scammed. Quote: Originally Posted by blb One more time: "Steve G" is not the owner of CGC. The "owner" of CGC is the Certified Collectibes Group, LLC. This is not opinion, this not supposition, this is not a "line of thought", this is mere fact: https://www.collectiblesgroup.com/legal/ https://www.collectiblesgroup.com/about-us/ Steve Eichenbaum is the CEO of the CCG, and Mark Salzberg is the Chairman of the CCG. If you're suggesting that "Steve G" is the owner of the Certified Collectibles Group, I'd ask for verification of that. Quote: Originally Posted by blb I don't disagree that they think that, but that doesn't mean their opinion is valid. Quote: Originally Posted by blb You keep saying that, but it's still not true. AmWay sells products that are meant to be CONSUMED, not COLLECTED. And if you had followed the coin market, you would have seen this exact same thing play out nearly 30 years ago. You may call it a scam...it is, as you state, "a free country to express one's self"...but if you believe that slabs are nothing more than fools looking for bigger fools, you don't understand the slab market, why it exists, and why people participate in it. In short, you have no respect for slabbing, but carefully cloak that in conciliatory language to project an image of a harmless...but influential!...old man. It's interesting that, on the one hand, you "fully endorse CBCS", but on the other, express such disdain for slabs. |
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| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Not at all. He's not rubbed me the wrong way. I'm perfectly willing to discuss anything he, or virtually anyone, wants to discuss. He is not. That's the sum of it. That's great that you've never had an issue with him, but that's a myopic way of looking at it. Everyone is different, and just because I may get along with someone, it doesn't mean others will, or should. Quote: Originally Posted by cak Go read the discussion about "sarcasm" in the "Asperger's thread." |
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| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "The thing is Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, its that I I just don't care" |
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| Post 75 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| DocBrown, a LOT of AmWay "product" meant to be consumed amongst seller's friends was "collected" in to basements and garages. Those first line seller's were indeed inadvertantly collecting: dust It is also very much the nature of the non-returnable "direct market" aspect in comic book speculation concepts now gussied up in a fancy plastic coffin by too many taking this aspect of the gig in to extremes akin to Tulip Mania. A major reason how secondary buyer levels such as the likes of Chuck, Buddy et al ended up with 10 million comics each and counting. I already, "been there, got the t-shirt" 30+ years ago now then natural flooding disaster destroyed same. Thought about going in to the paper mache brick biz for a few minutes. I never said wrote hinted at intimated Steve G owned owns ever owned aspects of CGC - dunno where you surmise that concept. Steve G also called a single person, not blindly in to an LLC entity And again, I call trimming destruction (take away) Restoration (to me) is when something is added to item. In 50+ years in this comics gig since 1966 placing first RBCC #47 there is very little I was not privy to and in cases helped a lot pioneer. Been taking out spine rolls since the 70s. With all the new guys on the set offering "pressing services" spine rolled well loved read comics have become down right scarce. But I never got in to and/or advocated piece replacement which to me defeats the purpose of each survivor maintaining its structural integrity so its story how it got up to today may be preserved rather then Frankensteins they have become instead. Using and strongly advocating mylar instead of plastic bags was one of them. Pushing acid free backer boards with that mylar < mylite another. Being one of Chris Pedrin's first "fortress" customers another. But we also had to learn it's short-comings just as the slab has damage potential short comings well documented at this stage of that game. And, once again still gently towards those who claim I "hate" slabbing, that is a misnomer constantly bandied abut by those who buh-leeve the BS slopped around inside that fruit stand across the street for some years now. Ergo, yes, micro-trimming falls in to category being looked at early on. There is actually little "new" you have yet to bring up to my attention (and we really should keep our mom's out of the equations in light of some psych evlauation out of Oregon - just saying )Just a few off top of noggin having woke up at 5 am to begin the beguine one more day of pulling and packaging more eBay auction & such orders.Euro customers it's pushing noon there shortly. They be active having sold in to over 68+ countries my last count. I love selling on the internet as these dino-bones are worn out from shleppin 2 tons four times a week for 30 shows a year over the course of decades. Setting up, just traveling across country with a over-full van & trailer, is for the younger generation(s) of paper haulers bouncing their stuff along the pothole ridden roads of America. Lots of unknown damage occurs that way of inter-facing with customers. Now, for full disclosure, not being able physically to set up at shows as in days of yore brings Jackson Browne to mind.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQtYrl0QKig with many many versions available to absorb. I used to say to my self, "...just one more show..." and well after a thousand comicons set up from June 1967 thru April 2012 those days of daze are past participle in my personal lexicon. These days I focus much of my selling towards the readers of comics and still remain bemused when a slab guy asks, "Are your comics graded" meaning are all 6000+ listings certified by the "pros" - http://stores.ebay.com/BLBcomics Am beginning the process of auctioning off the contents of my warehouse ith 45,000 comics in it. There are going to be some good deals fr those who choose to follow along. If not, could care less. Goal is simply to build the nest for oldest kid's healing recovery from a 6th surgery coming shortly, pay off those still left from when CGC-centric misguided lost souls were overtly attacking 2011-2016, and if luck be with me have enough left over to finish Comic Book Store Wars. After seeing myself in the credits of over 200 books worldwide on about regarding dissecting comics, tis time I finish my main tome put on hiatus a decade ago whilst dealing with well documented medical scenarios. It has long been mostly written. Need six months "free" time to focus on putting all the visual aid puzzle pieces together framing the 100,000+ words early on edited by decades long friends like Julius Schwartz, Jerry Bails, others of near equal stature (you'll see) in to cohesive proper truthful time line which I hope its students read to enjoy and possibly learn from. Comic Book Store Wars is a sum total of interviews, talks, chats, meetings, with tens of thousands of collector friends met along a very long path now fading away. So many friends passed on now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKNlGfkyhc has me buildng my bucket list instead post ipso facto             |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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FN_2199 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkga I see this with Ikea products. People want Ikea products or they need one more piece for their Ikea hack but don't want to drive 2 hours back to Ikea. Since Ikea doesn't sell much online, someone who lives down the street from one of their stores will advertise the entire Ikea catalog on eBay for an inflated price and then simply go down the street to buy whatever the eBay customer bought from the eBay seller. |
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| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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BLBcomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Some one said they have bought and sold 100,000 comic books. In my day have bought & sold well over 3.5 million excluding that destroyed in the 86 warehouse flooding | ||
| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
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X51 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos What were the shortcomings of a Fortress holder? I've only heard praise.  |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by neyko IF you are talking about Low Grade Comic Collectors on FB... those guys are judgmental dicks. Its the only FB group I ever left. As for the OP I would dispute people not caring about grade. I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't care about grade. Some of us may not anal and we may have to settle for lower or close or a price point but that doesn't mean that they don't care about the grade. Also to claim that people that don't care about grade are a majority without the stats to back you up is a bit bold. All I would say that people that are anal about grade are few and those that are not are far more common. |
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