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Comics Restoration and ConservationQuestions

Date Stamps4932

Collector Gabriel85301 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm sure its been asked, but how much will this affect(effect) the grade if any?
LOL
Whom here has comics graded with such newstand stamps on their covers??

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Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Refer to the grading guides for 9.6 - second last bullet point. You may assume no impact but can never be higher than 9.6

https://www.cbcscomics.com/grades
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Collector esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
I have received up to 9.6 with date stamps on the cover. They were pretty common at newsstands in my area when I was growing up.


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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel85301
I'm sure its been asked, but how much will this affect(effect) the grade if any?
LOL
Whom here has comics graded with such newstand stamps on their covers??



If you want to grade that one, send it for a press and clean... Some of the stamp is in the white of the logo and would come out. The rest MAY come out or at least fade.
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CBCS Pressing SteveRicketts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelastbard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel85301
I'm sure its been asked, but how much will this affect(effect) the grade if any?
LOL
Whom here has comics graded with such newstand stamps on their covers??



If you want to grade that one, send it for a press and clean... Some of the stamp is in the white of the logo and would come out. The rest MAY come out or at least fade.


If you send that book for a clean and press, and they try to remove that date stamp, never send that person books to clean/press again.
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Collector zosocane private msg quote post Address this user
I love date stamps.
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Collector thelastbard private msg quote post Address this user
I was just saying "if"... I care more about grunge over a stamp like that.
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
@SteveRicketts

"If you send that book for a clean and press, and they try to remove that date stamp, never send that person books to clean/press again."

Why do you say this? Should a date stamp removal never be attempted?
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by poka
Refer to the grading guides for 9.6 - second last bullet point. You may assume no impact but can never be higher than 9.6

https://www.cbcscomics.com/grades



".....You may assume no impact but can never be higher than 9.6"

This is a strange statement...if you may assume no impact and a 9.8 is impossible then a date stamp has an impact. If this is the case, signatures should follow the same logic.
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Collector doog private msg quote post Address this user
Pence price stamps take a hit on the grade too
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Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
@SteveRicketts

"If you send that book for a clean and press, and they try to remove that date stamp, never send that person books to clean/press again."

Why do you say this? Should a date stamp removal never be attempted?


Firstly, if only the part of the stamp that appears on the white lettering is removed, it:

A) will be obvious that a date stamp was there

B) will remove some of the cover gloss when cleaning that deep

C) will look odd

Secondly, when attempting to remove the part of the stamp that appears over the red part of the cover, some of the actual comic book ink will be removed along with it, causing a defect.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
@GAC Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
@SteveRicketts

"If you send that book for a clean and press, and they try to remove that date stamp, never send that person books to clean/press again."

Why do you say this? Should a date stamp removal never be attempted?


Firstly, if only the part of the stamp that appears on the white lettering is removed, it:

A) will be obvious that a date stamp was there

B) will remove some of the cover gloss when cleaning that deep

C) will look odd

Secondly, when attempting to remove the part of the stamp that appears over the red part of the cover, some of the actual comic book ink will be removed along with it, causing a defect.


Ahh...OK...So if the offending marks can not be removed entirely and/or without damaging the book they should never even be attempted. Cool...makes sense..thanks! As an FYI..I wasn't aware date stamps could not be removed completely.
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Collector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC

Ya, there would most likely be evidence of removal, which is not a good thing when getting a book graded.
Post 13 IP   flag post
Collector Gabriel85301 private msg quote post Address this user
I got several MSH #13s graded.
I was just curious if dated stamps affect the grade much.
Thank you every for your input.
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Collector AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user
Wanting to get this one graded. How’s that for a date stamp?
Post 15 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
I hate Date Stamps. I view and treat them like any other writing on a book.
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Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRexia
Wanting to get this one graded. How’s that for a date stamp?


That would be cool if only they had stamped across his knuckles...Id pay more for thaT than a clean cover!

Stan Lee must've stamped this one....Anyone have an example of a date stamp over someone's crotch?
Post 17 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
I hate Date Stamps. I view and treat them like any other writing on a book.


I think the point is they don't effect grade, but they will affect asthetics and ultimately value on average.
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COLLECTOR Foghorn_Sam private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel85301
I'm sure its been asked, but how much will this affect(effect) the grade if any?
LOL
Whom here has comics graded with such newstand stamps on their covers??



There is a very similar looking date stamp on my TOS #50. It is also has about the same placement on the cover, although not upside down.
Most of the time I don't mind date stamps, but the placement can make a difference if I'm ok with it or not.


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Collector Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
This one isn't very pretty.

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Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
I hate Date Stamps. I view and treat them like any other writing on a book.


I think the point is they don't effect grade, but they will affect asthetics and ultimately value on average.


This is the best and most succinct summary of the topic. I would only replace "will" with "may", since collector reaction to date stamps ranges from hate 'em to love 'em. I'm in the latter. It's part of the provenance of any book, and tells part of the story. Why anyone would try to remove a date stamp is beyond me. At minimum, you've moved from Blue label to Grey (Conserved), and if done shoddy, Purple.

As an aside, Grey Label is just CGC's way of trying to make restoration respectable, IMO. I'm not too thrilled about it, it's still restoration, just a sub-class. It will be interesting to see if the crew here follows suit.
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Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
I hate Date Stamps. I view and treat them like any other writing on a book.


I think the point is they don't effect grade, but they will affect asthetics and ultimately value on average.


It's part of the provenance of any book, and tells part of the story.


Creases, stains, rips, Writing etc... All tell a part of the story of a book too. I just prefer not to have those flaws as part of the story.
Post 22 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
As an aside, Grey Label is just CGC's way of trying to make restoration respectable, IMO. I'm not too thrilled about it, it's still restoration,


Not restoration. Conserved books are just that; something was done to keep it from degrading further. Rusty staples cleaned off, a nasty tear sealed off from getting worse, paper deacidified, etc.

I applaud CGC for taking this step.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaard
This one isn't very pretty.


You’re crazy. Beautiful book!
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
As an aside, Grey Label is just CGC's way of trying to make restoration respectable, IMO. I'm not too thrilled about it, it's still restoration,


Not restoration. Conserved books are just that; something was done to keep it from degrading further. Rusty staples cleaned off, a nasty tear sealed off from getting worse, paper deacidified, etc.

I applaud CGC for taking this step.


Actually CGC themselves state it's restoration. Go read it again SB, True they break out conserved as a special label type, but it is still restoration (they make a point to say that it is a subset of restoration type A-1).
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
I hate Date Stamps. I view and treat them like any other writing on a book.


I think the point is they don't effect grade, but they will affect asthetics and ultimately value on average.


It's part of the provenance of any book, and tells part of the story.


Creases, stains, rips, Writing etc... All tell a part of the story of a book. I just prefer not to have those flaws as part of the story.


The topic here is date stamps, not creases and stains. Nobody here would debate whether those are flaws. Whether a date stamp is a flaw is subjective, and apparently the grading companies have taken the side they are not flaws, since they don't affect grade. Again, to each their own but you can't lump 'em in with stains.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogio
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944
I hate Date Stamps. I view and treat them like any other writing on a book.


I think the point is they don't effect grade, but they will affect asthetics and ultimately value on average.


It's part of the provenance of any book, and tells part of the story.


Creases, stains, rips, Writing etc... All tell a part of the story of a book. I just prefer not to have those flaws as part of the story.


The topic here is date stamps, not creases and stains. Nobody here would debate whether those are flaws. Whether a date stamp is a flaw is subjective, and apparently the grading companies have taken the side they are not flaws, since they don't affect grade. Again, to each their own but you can't lump 'em in with stains.


Obviously some flaws are more severe than others, but flaws none the less.

I don't take my queues from grading companies, as the CEO, CFO and The Head Grader of my collection I have the final say in what MY guidelines are, not CGC or CBCS. My guideline's treat date stamps the same as any other outside writing. To me it doesn't matter who, why or when it was put there. It wasn't part of the originally printed book. I realize there is a wide acceptance of this flaw, and depending on it's location it may not be a major detraction on the book. I personally prefer my book not have this flaw and I personally down grade books with this flaw.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Collector BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaard
This one isn't very pretty.



Yup, That's pretty ugly to me. Especially when the book is widely available without the ugly ink mark.
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COLLECTOR shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
As an aside, Grey Label is just CGC's way of trying to make restoration respectable, IMO. I'm not too thrilled about it, it's still restoration,


Not restoration. Conserved books are just that; something was done to keep it from degrading further. Rusty staples cleaned off, a nasty tear sealed off from getting worse, paper deacidified, etc.

I applaud CGC for taking this step.


Actually CGC themselves state it's restoration. Go read it again SB, True they break out conserved as a special label type, but it is still restoration (they make a point to say that it is a subset of restoration type A-1).


Thats what scares people off conserved books. Conservation on a book that needs it is a good thing. Cleaned staples are better than rusty, etc. By the definition of restoration it is not, but then I suppose we could argue about that as well 😁

Resto = improving a books grade
Conserve = stopping a book from degrading further

That grey label is the first step to get our community to differentiate between the two.

On a somewhat related note, both grading companies give tape a pass; yet taping a tear is conservation. I wonder why tape is accepted so easily?
Post 29 IP   flag post
Collector TommyJasmin private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJasmin
As an aside, Grey Label is just CGC's way of trying to make restoration respectable, IMO. I'm not too thrilled about it, it's still restoration,


Not restoration. Conserved books are just that; something was done to keep it from degrading further. Rusty staples cleaned off, a nasty tear sealed off from getting worse, paper deacidified, etc.

I applaud CGC for taking this step.


Actually CGC themselves state it's restoration. Go read it again SB, True they break out conserved as a special label type, but it is still restoration (they make a point to say that it is a subset of restoration type A-1).


Thats what scares people off conserved books. Conservation on a book that needs it is a good thing. Cleaned staples are better than rusty, etc. By the definition of restoration it is not, but then I suppose we could argue about that as well 😁


Actually I think this is a great point and am in full agreement here.
If removing some oxidation will prevent further oxidation, then best it's done, right?
With this in mind, I think I am starting to change my view on the new label.
Leave it to Shrewbeer to get met to change my view on something.

I just hope the guidelines and application of them are clear on this.
There will be a lot of lobbying to get many existing purple
labels reholdered. We are tagging all database sales with the new labels
going forward in Nosto, and so will be able to compute price index
differentials sometime next year when enough sales have been accumulated.
It will be interesting to see how much difference it makes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer

Resto = improving a books grade
Conserve = stopping a book from degrading further

That grey label is the first step to get our community to differentiate between the two.


Resto: Improving the appearance anyway.
And sure, numeric grade, but generally not value.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shrewbeer

On a somewhat related note, both grading companies give tape a pass; yet taping a tear is conservation. I wonder why tape is accepted so easily?


I'd need more info to comment on this one SB, are we talking only about conservation
grade taping materials? And are you saying both are soft on using tape?
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