IGB does it again, beautiful 9.4 Showcase #44793
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DocBrown private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan No, Susan Ciccone (The Restoration Lab) is, bar none, the finest restorer working in comics, and has been for 30 years. She is a professional's professional. |
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DocBrown I am not a advocate for restoration* but it is definitively clear that Ciccone is a professional's professional. Ciccone has simply been in the trade much longer than Nelson, or any other reputable restorer.With 30+ years of experience, Ciccone should be at the top of her trade and she rightfully is. * I am a proponent of conservation, only when absolutely needed i.e. to conserve structural integrity of say, a golden or platinum age book. Even than, it should be used sparingly.The market shows a clear preference for unrestored GA books. Not adding large , totally recolored chunks to covers, reglossing and so on. I believe that over 95% of books , should be conserved using non-invasive techniques. By non-invasive techniques, I am referring to properly performed dry cleaning, humidification and pressing. A small handful of books, can benefit from invasive treatments, but the work performed should be kept to a bare minimum. |
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shiftins6 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A book is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. Restoration or not. | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @CopperAgeKids @DocBrown If you're going to claim "who's better", examples of their work would be appropriate. I have yet to see anything more impressive than what IGB has put out, but would love to if there are such books. |
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VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer There IS nothing "impressive" about what these charlatans are doing. Its all smoke and shadows, period! |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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conditionfreak private msg quote post Address this user | |
| An original in 5.0 condition sold for 30K in April 2017. Far as I can tell, there have been none higher grade sold in many years, if ever. Given that. I would GUESS this heavily restored book would sell in the neighborhood of 8 to 10 thousand. Which is about what an unrestored 2.5 sold for last July ($8,500). Hey, it's your money. Do with it what you want. |
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shiftins6 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Never underestimate what someone is willing to spend on something even if it doesn't appeal to you. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @shiftins6 wow. Yep, id take this SC over that NM any day, but apparently there are those that wouldnt! | ||
| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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CopperAgeKids private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Why is the onus on myself , or DB, to prove anything about Ciccone's work, and reputation over IGB's? I never heard of IGB, previous to the CGC vs. IGB lawsuit. Nobody on this board seems to know who the eff IGB even is. http://ibgrestoration.com That is a blank website. http://restorationlab.com Not a blank website. Dunno what else can be said.  🤣 |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids Pretty simple. I posted a book and a discussion about IGB, and the two of you posted that Ciccone is better. It would be proper to provide some examples when making claims, thats all; especially that I'd like to see and appreciate her work if it is in fact better. Just nevermind. I'd much more love for my thread not to get locked. |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's amazing to me how the most mundane, non-controversial post can go south so quick on these boards. You guys are the best |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 If you honestly believe that a post regarding an IGB "restored" book is without innate controversial potential? You must be a neophyte  |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @VillageIdiot lighten up.... sheesh | ||
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comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CopperAgeKids They took their site down a while ago, my guess is probably because they are not seeking new work. They were well advertised when they started years ago. They have an eBay profile you can look up I believe. @VillageIdiot isn't all restoration smoke and mirrors? Lol. |
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I don't think it is possible for us regular folks to say "who is better". Which is why my comment was that The Restoration Lab (Susan Ciccone) has the best rep in the hobby. She not only has been doing it for longer than anyone, she apprenticed with and took over the business from William Sarill. Sarill is literally the God Father of professional comic book restoration. The first to research it and bring professional paper restoration techniques to the comic book hobby. Susan worked as his assistant for years until Sarill retired. Interestingly enough, Matt Nelson (CCS) and a few others whose names I don't know got their start by spending a weekend at Sarill's house sometime in the 1990's with him teaching them. Matt has no doubt progressed far beyond what he learned that weekend -- but that's where CCS started as well. But judging who is better might be beyond anyone's expertise or pay grade here. It's possible for instance to do beautiful restoration work - but not doing said work using archival, professionally accepted techniques and materials. One standard for instance is reversability. Could what they do be removed without causing additional damage? So really - I don't know and can't claim I'd know even if I looked at one of their books who might be "better". I do know though that The Restoration Lab has the best reputation. Besides what I've read and has already been said (they do more work to their books than is prudent in search of perfection of appearance), their actual business model gives me some pause. I have a hard time putting my concerns into words. But what sort of business model is it where you ONLY do restoration of paper collectibles YOU OWN? And with the ONLY reason being to resell and make a profit? Even when -- based on what some have said here -- IGB work on books that belong to other people they only do so when the books are going to be sold and they take a share of the profits. So essentially if I have a beat up copy of Showcase 4, I can't pay them to restore it and then get to keep in my own collection. We have to sell it and divide up the $$. Really???? The business model just feels wrong. They aren't conservation/restoration professionals in the purist sense. Their main concern just seems to be hustling. Gotta get a 9.4 or better so we make the maximum amount of money. So just keep painting, just keep adding, just keep cleaning until there. If it feels wrong it's probably wise to step back and think about it some. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan Which is why I didnt tag you in my post. No doubt she has an incredible rep, with an incredible background  Speaking strictly product, Idk. |
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VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by comic_book_man Technically? yes, CBM, you are correct!...but these IGB tools take it to a whole other level of deception |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VillageIdiot Isnt the goal of restoration, to restore something to as close as possible to the original product? |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer No!!! |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VillageIdiot Ok i'll bite, what is then? Youve got me curious now lol If they unnecessarily replace paper or ink where its not needed, then I can begin to see your point. Restoration should be as close to the original as possible while retaining as much of the original material as possible as well. I suppose there is a balance there somewhere. |
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comic_book_man private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by VillageIdiot I think I would only consider something deception if it was a restored book but somehow passing as an unrestored book...IGB, CCS, etc. all use methods with intent on being restored, the range at which their grade is given is dependent on CGC/CBCS but is nonetheless restored. That's just my personal view.   |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My feelings on restoration like this? A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich weather its served on a paper plate or a silver platter. |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 Which reminds me of a quote I first heard in the movie Hard Rain. From the sheriff - asked why he gone bad and had thrown in the armored car robbers... "Life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less shit you eat." If your feeling is restoration is shit (I don't see it quite that way) then restoration that is worth more bread does indeed have one eating less shit  |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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VillageIdiot private msg quote post Address this user | |
I do NOT believe that restoration is a bad thing. I own a few restored books. IGB does not in my opinion perform “restoration” it’s ultimately something much more sinister  |
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| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer Well - maybe.... But I think as part of that goal is restoration tries to retain as much of the original as possible. Full frame off restorations in cars can be beautiful - but not near as desirable as nice looking car that has the great majority of original parts, pieces and paint? You could take a 1968 GTO and strip it apart, sandblast frame and panels, rebuild the entire drive train, redo the upholstery seats, paint to look like new the day it rolled off the factory. But would that be preferable to taking the same car and touching up the paint, sewing up a few tears on the seats, replacing the water pump and timing chain and keeping it much closer to original - even though it doesn't have a showroom look? Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa - probably the most valuable painting in the world - has been through a few restorations. It's been noted that those performing the restorations over the centuries have acted with a great deal of restraint. Which suggests that among professionals, less is considered better. |
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Where is the line drawn between restoration and conservation in reference to comic books and how do the 2 influence the grading of them? | ||
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 What are you assuming the difference in restoration being, from others that you might not consider a shit sandwich? Quote: Originally Posted by VillageIdiot What is it that they do that makes you believe it is out of the acceptable realm of restoration? |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OGJackster Conservation is exactly that; conserving a book. Keeping it from degrading further than it already has. Putting a book in a slab is a form of conservation! Yes, that's a stretch, but you get the point. if a book has rusty staples, its better to clean them off so there is no migration. If a book has a nasty tear that gets worse anytime someone touches the book, its better to tape it. Conservation in that regard is a good thing. I don't mind conservation at all on GA books. Hell, I would prefer that it would be acceptable for us to de-acidify comic paper, as it would preserve books for many more generations. But alas, our collector community would rather them rot than be subjected to the mass deacidification process. Conservation and Restoration are noted differently on labels, as they should be. Unfortunately the uninformed just assume that conservation is a bad thing. |
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shrewbeer private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I should add, that I do now have first-hand knowledge that this rumor is entirely untrue. Rumors are an unfortunate thing, and in this case, the basis of a defamation lawsuit. If Matt and Emily's results blending color and leafcasting in themselves constitute rumors that everything is fake and painted over entirely, when they are in fact not, they are certainly doing it right! |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
 CBCS broke up with me over Facebook.
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CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by shrewbeer I haven't checked in a long time, but does Susan offer leaf casting? |
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